Asking again for help – tests, docs

Question:

I just stumbled to this site tonight and replied to your posting but I don’t see it.  Please let me know if you did not receive and I will compose and send again. Good luck!

Response:

In 1999 I had a sudden hearing loss (unaidable) in my left ear.  Now I am having problems with my right (also sudden onset) – a measurable loss but still trying prednisone.  An MRI is scheduled.  It can be compared with the MRI done in 1999.   MRI and audiological tests (beeps, cupcake, etc.) are the only testing that has been done.  I am told the usual bunch of things that can cause a loss (viral, circulatory, etc.) but this is no help to me. I want to know what damage has been done in my ears, and if anything can be done to fix it. What tests would be helpful that I should ask for?  ABR and fluorescent treponemal antibody test are 2 that I picked up in newgroups. Any opinions about those 2 tests? Anyone know of any docs who specialize in sudden hearing loss?  My ENT’s office is usually full of children, and with both losses I had to wait 2 days for an appointment – then saw a PA first. I am in Atlanta, but could go elsewhere for a consult.  I have good insurance and in any event am not destitute.

Response:

Cochlear implants

Question:

Jim Chinnis <jchin…@SPAMalum.mit.edu> wrote: >Nothing would happen to them, presuming that they weren’t on your hand. I >suppose if you raced around a carpet for a while and then touched a doorknob >with your ear, you might have a problem.  ;-)

I think I saw that on one of the TV game shows.

Response:

<< Steve wrote: > ——————-%<—————- > Researchers hope that one day the entire apparatus can be implanted in > the body. But before that goal can be reached, cochlear implants will > need to use far less power. Currently the batteries must be changed as > often as every four hours.

——————–%<——————– I’ve known a lot of people with CIs and I’ve NEVER heard of anyone having to change their batteries that often.  My daughter has one of the strongest maps (she is totally deaf) and she can get by changing batteries every four DAYS.  It’s on during all her waking hours (when not bathing or swimming).  They must be talking about a VERY old implant. P  >><BR><BR> Interesting.  I get by about every 2-3 days with my behind the ear model (which uses 3 of those special hearing aid type batteries), and when I use the larger model that I wear around my waist, it uses 1 double A battery a day. There WAS a period when I did have to change my double A batteries every 4 hours–because I used a cheap battery!  LOL  Stay away from Ray-o-vac. pine

Response:

On Thu, 29 May 2003 07:36:52 -0700, Steve <> took a very strange color crayon and scribbled: >The analog circuits >make unusual use of complementary metal-oxide silicon, or CMOS, >transistors, which are usually thought of as digital components but >are in this case wired into analog circuits in a way that draws little >power.  

I wonder if this will work well in everyday use because CMOS chips are notoriously sensitive to static electricity. What happens to them if the body they’re in is zapped by a doorknob, for instance? — Therese Shellabarger / The Roving Reporter – Civis Mundi tlsh…@concentric.net     / http://www.concentric.net/~tlshell

Response:

Steve wrote: > ——————-%<—————- > Researchers hope that one day the entire apparatus can be implanted in > the body. But before that goal can be reached, cochlear implants will > need to use far less power. Currently the batteries must be changed as > often as every four hours.

——————–%<——————– I’ve known a lot of people with CIs and I’ve NEVER heard of anyone having to change their batteries that often.  My daughter has one of the strongest maps (she is totally deaf) and she can get by changing batteries every four DAYS.  It’s on during all her waking hours (when not bathing or swimming).  They must be talking about a VERY old implant. P

Response:

(Anne Eisenberg, NY Times)—Cochlear implants that restore some hearing to the profoundly deaf have improved steadily over the past two decades. Although they are called implants, however, these systems still lie mainly outside the ear. Most of the apparatus – including the microphone, processor and batteries that transform speech into electrical signals passed on to electrodes embedded in the cochlea – is still typically worn behind the ear or in a shirt pocket.   Researchers hope that one day the entire apparatus can be implanted in the body. But before that goal can be reached, cochlear implants will need to use far less power. Currently the batteries must be changed as often as every four hours.   Now a researcher at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology has devised a processor for cochlear implants that he says consumes only about half a milliwatt, one-tenth of the processing power of current devices. Such an acoustic processing chip, if proven to be effective, might be suitable for next-generation cochlear devices that are fully implanted.   "There might be a small bump behind the head," said Rahul Sarpeshkar, an associate professor of electrical engineering and computer science at MIT, who with his group created the low-power processor. "But otherwise you won’t know from appearance that the person is deaf."   To save power, the new processor reverses the traditional pattern for chips used in cochlear implants: it does most of the work with analog circuits, not digital ones.   "Most people digitize the signal immediately as it comes from the microphone," turning the information into bits that a digital signal processor then handles, Dr. Sarpeshkar said. "We did the opposite." The signal remains in analog form for most of the processing, including filtering the sound, and is digitized only at the last interface to drive the control circuitry of the electrodes.   In the digital age, it turns out, there are still jobs at which a well-designed analog circuit can excel. Yannis Tsividis, a professor of electrical engineering at Columbia University who specializes in merging precision analog and digital circuits on single chips, said that Dr. Sarpeshkar had alighted on such an opportunity.   "The ear does impressive things," Dr. Tsividis said, "but not at high speed." It processes information not in the gigahertz range of say, a typical Intel chip, but in the far more leisurely kilohertz range.   "Analog circuits can be profitably operated here," he said, because the design does not demand the high current needed for digital operation.   The physical world is basically analog, he said, but at some point chip designers must convert those analog processes to the zeroes and ones of digital design. "The larger question is, when do you do this?" he asked. "There is a lot you can gain from doing much of the initial work in analog," avoiding the dissipation of power that occurs in digital number crunching, where each of millions of elements handles part of the computation. That process can quickly empty a battery.   Dr. Sarpeshkar and his group have been working on the processor project for three years and have written papers that document the circuits built for each block in the new design. The analog circuits make unusual use of complementary metal-oxide silicon, or CMOS, transistors, which are usually thought of as digital components but are in this case wired into analog circuits in a way that draws little power.   The project was underwritten by industry sponsors, and Dr. Sarpeshkar expects the chip to be available commercially within two years.   Reducing the power that cochlear devices draw is a crucial issue today as well as for the next generation of devices, said Philip Loizou, an associate professor of electrical engineering at the University of Texas who does research in cochlear implants. "You could be in the middle of a meeting, and you have to say, ‘Hold on, I have to change my batteries,’ " he said.   In the digital part of the process, Dr. Loizou said, a lot of computing is required quickly. "The more complicated the algorithm, the more power it consumes," he said.   While Dr. Sarpeshkar’s processor is based on analog circuits, it includes digital outputs so that it can be used with other parts of the system like the programming interface. Being able to reprogram the processor is crucial because each patient has different auditory needs that are translated into instructions to each electrode that stimulates a nerve ending in the cochlea.   Andreas Andreou, a professor of electrical and computer engineering at Johns Hopkins University, said that Dr. Sarpeshkar’s circuits were unusual examples of precision engineering. "Analog does not necessarily mean low power; it’s the careful engineering that does it," he said.   Dr. Andreou expects low-power analog circuitry like Dr. Sarpeshkar’s to have other applications besides cochlear implants. "Some day with circuits like these, people will have a whole MP3 player in an earbud," he said, or an entire translation or speech recognition system.  

Response:

To most people, cochlear implants sound like a medical miracle. But many in the Deaf community see the technology as a cultural threat, yet another example of the hearing world

deception!

Question:

"Serpent" <t…@none.com> wrote in message news:jf9sr0pflaebfej106j26krvfcplab5qa5@4ax.com… > Greetings! > With all due respect…have you sought the services of a Councilor or > Psychiatrist??? I’m totally serious.

No, I don’t believe they’d be of any use at all. I’ve tried hypnotherapy but it didn’t work. Others I know who tried it who it did work for, the fix was only temporary. > I have NEVER experienced ANY discrimination from ANYBODY with my BTE > aids. Indeed, I told my co-workers in advance about getting aids, and > was actually disappointed in talking to each one for about an hour, > that they simply DID NOT notice, and I actually had to point them > out!!!

When I wore my NHS BTE aid, due to it being a poor analogue one, I had to keep asking people to speak up. They did for maybe 5~10 minutes and then went back to normal. > Am I a total FREAK in wearing BTE’s and having absolutely no problems,

No, I’m genuinely glad for you > or are am I in the distinct minority, and the vast majority of > "VISIBLE BTE" wearers are having "problems and prejudices"???

Ah. the old Usenet problem. People who are perfectly happy with their aids will not feel the need to seek out a newsgroup offering advice and support. Hence most of the people in here are not perfectly happy and are seeking advice (on replacement aids or adjustments) or support. Therefore we’ll see far fewer "I’ve got XYZ aids and they’re great" posts and more of "I’ve got a problem with ABC aids"… Richard

Response:

"Dave Smith" <d…@djms.JUNKME.net> wrote in message news:pan.2004.12.15.02.02.17.600242@djms.JUNKME.net… > On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 08:21:26 +0000, Richard Wood wrote: > > Having visible BTE aids would prevent me from enjoying going out in > > public to its fullest potential due to the problems and prejudices > > that a lot of members of the public would have about me, giving me > > extreme self conciousness. > You are who you are, deal with it.  Set an appt with a doctor as others > have suggested.

I’m happily dealing with it by wearing CICs. > Tell them to drop it down a few decibels. I do it all the time.  Nobody > minds, despite what you might think.  Up a few, down a few, it’s not as > big of a deal to them as you might think.

Do you not find that if you ask them to talk quieter or louder they only do so for 5~10 minutes and you need to ask them again? > "…cause they think I can’t hear"… hate to point out the obvious, but > YOU CANT HEAR.

But if I had BTE, and good hearing through them, I could hear. I am sure that the vast majority of the public are not aware that modern hearing aids can give us hearing reasonably close to perfect. They still think of the ancient National Health Service clunky aids that helped only very slightly, that were only fitted to severely deaf people because they were that bad, that you had to still shout at to be heard. Does anyone else agree with this? > You’re only disappointing yourself here.  Haven’t you ever wondered how > many interesting people/conversations you’ve passed up on because you > wouldn’t take the first step and talk to them?

Loads, and looking back on my life I hate myself for being like that. > Besides, if they don’t want > to talk to you, are you sure you want to talk to them?

Yes. Feeling totally alone in a crowded room… > That’s your choice.  I hate turtleneck sweaters.  But if it comes > down to me freezing my ass off like an idiot or wearing a > turtleneck sweater, I’ll take one in blue, please.

Heh, that made me laugh! > Richard, I lost my hearing when I was 6 months away from my 21st birthday. >  I was in the prime of my life and within hours I was deaf (got sick). >  I’d love to be in your shoes

Ditto here. I’d have given anything to have been able to go through school without all the taunting and bullying. Its always stayed with me. My dad went blind over the course of 5 years or so. With close friends who know this, we’ve talked about what would be worse; being blind since birth, and so never seeing anything, so you don’t know what you’re missing; going blind instantaneously; or going blind slowly. Its something thats impossible to answer, but if someone asked me before I was born I’d pick the latter. > You’re gonna be deaf for quite some time. Life doesn’t end because of it. > Get the best ears you can buy and make amends with it.  Life goes on man…

BTEs might give me slightly better hearing, better directionality, but for me by far the better choice is CICs. They’ve turned my life around. That may be because I’ve got other problems, but the end result is the same. I can enjoy life. Richard

Response:

In article <cpu8kf$5v…@server.localdomain>,  "Richard Wood" <ne…@ukrm.co.uk> wrote: > First of all I’d like to say that seeing the replies of people all disagreeing > with me has made me very happy, its good to know that a lot of you > can completely ignore the fact you wear these things and lead a normal > life.

Personally, since I’ve had my BTEs (and yeah, I’m a geezer) I’ve come to believe that there are a LOT of people who think they can hear well who really have problems hearing. This is especially true, I think, of baby boomers. I’ve come to believe that every annual medical exam should include a hearing test. Anyway, if I had my choice, my BTEs would be fluorescent yellow and have little Harley-Davidson wings that I could extend and even flap. I would LOVE that. -ahem- Any manufacturers listening?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -bido wrote: > hi all, > i am a 30 y/o male with hearing impairement. i inherited this issue > from my dad who is also HOH (I am the youngest of 4 children, the > other 3 are fine). my hearing started to manfiest when i was 10 y/o > and I started wearing a hearing aid on my right ear when i was around > 14 (the left year is useless plus i didn’t want to wear two hearing > aids). i started with a viennatone one then moved to a starkey and > then another analog CIC starkey since 98 (it died yesterday after > breaking down twice before but fixed). my hearing has deterioted over > the years especially the last few ones. yesterday, my new audiologiest > here in montreal called me (one hour before the old hearing aid broke > down!) to inform me that the digital hearing aid that i ordered few > weeks ago is ready (a starkey as well). the audiologist recommended > that i would go with a bigger hearing aid, she said the CIC can’t > bring you more than what the current analog one provides. i insisted > that i would stick to CIC because i have issues with the size of the > hearing aid. i am trying the hearing aid now and I am very > disappointed! to the point that i am seriously depressed. i don’t see > any difference at all comparing to the analog one. actually, right > now, the sounds that i need to hear i either hear them very low or not > at all while useless sounds like when typing on the keyboard or the > sound of something that falls on the floor is so loud it is giving me > a headache. the hearing aid comes with a small button that let’s you > cycle through 3 different programs. that’s another joke, i actually > wonder if they ever tested it. other than the 1st program which the > default, i can’t pretty much hear anything with the other 2. > if this is what hearing aids companies got to invent after all these > years then i think they should all get fired.

Response:

bearc…@cruller.invalid wrote: > Anyway, if I had my choice, my BTEs would be fluorescent yellow and have > little Harley-Davidson wings that I could extend and even flap. I would > LOVE that. > -ahem- Any manufacturers listening?

Here you go…  :)                              http://earwearinc.com/catgD.html — Patricia Burns (to reply via email…address has only one "s")

Response:

I too have quite often see great numbers of people at the restaurant doors waiting for a BTE wearer to come by so they could heckle him. I think there are clubs one can join to get in on the fun. Get real, dude. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Having visible BTE aids would prevent me from enjoying going out in >public to its fullest potential due to the problems and prejudices >that a lot of members of the public would have about me, giving me >extreme self conciousness. >I do not wish people to come right up to my face and shout at me >cause they think I can’t hear.

Response:

On Wed 19 Jan 2005 05:06:20p, Old Martian tittered and giggled, and giggled and tittered, and finally blurted out… > I too have quite often see great numbers of people at the restaurant > doors waiting for a BTE wearer to come by so they could heckle him.

Did you also notice that many of them are wearing CICs? <G> – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I think there are clubs one can join to get in on the fun. > Get real, dude. >>Having visible BTE aids would prevent me from enjoying going out in >>public to its fullest potential due to the problems and prejudices >>that a lot of members of the public would have about me, giving me >>extreme self conciousness. >>I do not wish people to come right up to my face and shout at me cause >>they think I can’t hear.

Response:

On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 08:21:26 +0000, Richard Wood wrote: > Having visible BTE aids would prevent me from enjoying going out in > public to its fullest potential due to the problems and prejudices > that a lot of members of the public would have about me, giving me > extreme self conciousness.

You are who you are, deal with it.  Set an appt with a doctor as others have suggested. > I do not wish people to come right up to my face and shout at me > cause they think I can’t hear.

Tell them to drop it down a few decibels. I do it all the time.  Nobody minds, despite what you might think.  Up a few, down a few, it’s not as big of a deal to them as you might think. "…cause they think I can’t hear"… hate to point out the obvious, but YOU CANT HEAR. > I do not wish people to just avoid talking to me at all cause they > think it’ll be really difficuly to hold a conversation with a deaf person.

Prove them wrong then.  Hold the conversation as anyone else would. You’re only disappointing yourself here.  Haven’t you ever wondered how many interesting people/conversations you’ve passed up on because you wouldn’t take the first step and talk to them? Besides, if they don’t want to talk to you, are you sure you want to talk to them? > I do not wish people to think I’m generally stupid cause I am deaf.

Again, prove them wrong then.  Hold your conversation with them like there’s nothing different.  Ask them to bump it up or down a few notches if you need to, but speak smart and you’ll come across smart.  But to do this, you HAVE to talk to people. > I do not wish to go back to only wearing (BTE) aids when its > absolutely necessary cause I hate the things.

That’s your choice.  I hate turtleneck sweaters.  But if it comes down to me freezing my ass off like an idiot or wearing a turtleneck sweater, I’ll take one in blue, please. <snip> > Hearing fails as we get older, so older people wearing BTE aids > are common and do not look out of place. Young kids wearing > them have a hell of a life. Anything that prevents that is a good > thing.

Richard, I lost my hearing when I was 6 months away from my 21st birthday.  I was in the prime of my life and within hours I was deaf (got sick).  I’d love to be in your shoes, hearing problems since birth.  Try dealing  with hearing to no-hearing in a matter of hours and then tell me about it  being hard.  At the time, I was a single, 20 year old airmen in the US  Air Force, living it up every day and night. Always a party to be had,  always women to party with. Guess what?  Life doesn’t end when you wear  BTEs. I’m now 25, very successful, in a long term relationship, and I’ve  started my own highly successful business.  I go out several times a week  with my hearing friends. They don’t care about my BTEs.  I talk to  everyone I meet, they don’t care either. You’re gonna be deaf for quite some time. Life doesn’t end because of it. Get the best ears you can buy and make amends with it.  Life goes on man… –Dave

Response:

Hearing better leads to talking better.  People react to unusual speech more than they do to the sight of hearing aids.  Hear as well as you can.  Get hearing aids that will enable you to hear and speak as well as possible. Bill M

Response:

"Steve B." <prettyg…@everything.com.au> wrote in message news:BDE3C40D.48834%prettygood@everything.com.au… > Richard Wood said: > > Having visible BTE aids would prevent me from enjoying going out in > > public to its fullest potential due to the problems and prejudices > > that a lot of members of the public would have about me,giving me > > extreme self conciousness. > I lot of us seem to get by okay wearing BTE aids. I’m not aware of "the > problems and prejudices that a lot of members of the public would have about > me". Am I thick or are you perhaps assuming things that may not be true?

First of all I’d like to say that seeing the replies of people all disagreeing with me has made me very happy, its good to know that a lot of you can completely ignore the fact you wear these things and lead a normal life. i can’t remember at what age I started to wear aids since I’ve been hard of hearing since birth, I think it was about 7 or so. So yes, all through my secondary school the other kids tauted me, made up hurtful nicknames, bullied me, etc, etc, etc. Didn’t help the fact I also had NHS thick black glasses, was by far the tallest in class, had built up shoes for a while. That has had a *major* effect shaping my personality, I avoided contact with other people for the next 2 decades almost. > > I do not wish people to come right up to my face and shout at me > > cause they think I can’t hear. > They don’t do that to me, though occasionally they seem to not mind if I ask > them to speak up or repeat themselves.

Someone comes up to you to talk, they notice you’re wearing aids and try to help by speaking up, but rather than just speak clearly and a bit louder, they almost shout. Had this happen numerous times with my BTE. > > I do not wish people to just avoid talking to me at all cause they > > think it’ll be really difficuly to hold a conversation with a deaf person. > You need to distinguish between deaf and hard of hearing. It _is_ really > difficulty to hold a conversation with a deaf person. If I’m honest, it’s > actually _me_ who avoids conversation more that others.

Ok, I’ll admit that this is probably me, as an aid wearer, doing the avoiding. > You only > appear stupid to people who _don’t_ know you have a hearing disability. The > rest know _that you didn’t respond (or responded inappropriately) because > you didn’t hear.

Correct. And if I have aids that give me good hearing I can hear what the people (who do not know I’m deaf) are saying. > > I do not wish to go back to only wearing (BTE) aids when its > > absolutely necessary cause I hate the things. > That much is clear. Now, why do you hate the things that will improve your > hearing to a level where you can function reliably? I don’t hate my hearing > aids. Nor my glasses. Why is it such a big deal for you?

I don’t know. Reading back my original post and the replies has helped me think about it a lot more. I’ve been a loner all my life until very recently, no real idea why that is, but I strongly suspect it was being made to feel like a dumb freak for 7 years at school. I don’t just want to be able to hear well. I want to hear well and feel normal. The phsycological problem may be in my head, but its still a problem, and if a good pair of CICs can solve both (and they do, the new Oticon Sensos have arrived that’s what I’ll wear. A couple of people have said why don’t I go and get therapy? Personally I see therapy as a huge bottomless black hole designed to suck money out of my wallet. I know a few people who have tried hypnotherapy, I have, but its only a temporary solution, the original problem re-appears. > I know that feeling. It’s hard when you have trouble haring and I now avoid > places where I know I won’t be able to have a conversation. But hearing aids > help.

Pubs/clubs/cinema, any noisy environment. A lot of the places people go to socialise. (I’m hoping my new aids will help in this respect) > Kids are horrible. They’ll do almost anything to upset other kids; hit them, > call them names, and yes, poke fun at their disabilities. If you had hearing > aids at school you probably suffered this and probably ‘learnt’ that > ‘people’ think there’s a stigma attached to wearing them. You’ve grown up, > perhaps those who used to poke fun at you have, too.

Quite likely, but the brain is growing and learning at that age, and something that’s learned very strongly can’t be "un learned". I just count my blessings every day that someone invented CICs > Look, maybe there _is_ a stigma attached to being hard of hearing but I > think it’s borne mostly out of ignorance. As long as you agree that it’s > something to be embarrassed about, wear CIC’s which are no longer loud > enough so that people don’t notice your aids, wear flesh coloured aids (why > don’t we treat them like the frames of our glasses?) and generally try to > hide your hearing disability, then you reinforce the stigma.

If there was a surefire way of getting rid of the stigma which I accept is inside my head, then I’d go for it, and probably buy a pair of cool gadgety BTEs and paint "Rayban" on the side of them… > Agreed but kids are pretty sharp. They’ll soon notice CIC aids in the people > in their classroom. They need to learn that the wearing oh hearing aids is > not something to be ashamed of anymore than is the wearing of a pair of > glasses.

They’d notice them, but they’re not noticable all the time, so would soon be forgotten about. Disabilities that are visible all the time would remind kids about them and be "calling out" for the kids to poke fun at, if you see what I mean. Richard

Response:

On the Contrary…with my BTE’s I hear fine, and am perfectly happy!!! On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 18:09:16 -0600, "Kuta" <kuta0…@comcast.net> wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Do you see a psychiatrist?  You appear to have many issues. >"Richard Wood" <ne…@ukrm.co.uk> wrote in message >news:cpjjbg$r3p$1@server.localdomain… >> "HEARA1" <hea…@aol.com> wrote in message >> news:20041212165853.06002.00001301@mb-m21.aol.com… >>> >Before this I wore one National Health BTE aid for about 25+ years. >>> >(well, I wore it only when I absolutely needed to, taking it out as much >>> >as possible) >>> >If my deafness was that severe I needed BTE aids I would have them, >>> >I’ve no doubt that I could hear a bit better with BTEs, but I can hear" >>> >well >>> >enough" now and thats "good enough for me!" >>> Dear Richard, >>> It saddens me than anyone with a communicative disability would settle >>> for >>> "good enough". >>> I wish we all live all facets of life to their fullest potential & never >>> settle >>> for "good enough"!! >> Having visible BTE aids would prevent me from enjoying going out in >> public to its fullest potential due to the problems and prejudices >> that a lot of members of the public would have about me, giving me >> extreme self conciousness. >> I do not wish people to come right up to my face and shout at me >> cause they think I can’t hear. >> I do not wish people to just avoid talking to me at all cause they >> think it’ll be really difficuly to hold a conversation with a deaf person. >> I do not wish people to think I’m generally stupid cause I am deaf. >> I do not wish to go back to only wearing (BTE) aids when its >> absolutely necessary cause I hate the things. >> I do not wish to walk round with a sign around my neck saying >> "Treat me like a normal bloody person, because I am!", cause >> thats what I often felt like doing. Either that or just giving up >> all together and becoming a work from home hermit who has >> no interaction with other people at all, cause its just too much >> hassle. >> When I got my CIC aids my whole life changed. On one side because >> I wasn’t self aware about them therefore I wear them all the time, >> giving me better hearing in all situations, and secondly because they >> were so much better than the NHS dinosaur, and I had two rather than >> one. >> For anyone who wears BTEs, isn’t bothered by how other people >> act & think and so wear them all the time, I’m glad for you and them. >> For people like me who have put up with the stigma of being >> obviously deaf since a young kid, given the choice of appearing >> "normal" with CICs, or still carrying round the deaf stigma and >> wearing BTEs and probably not wearing them a lot of the time >> (so being far more isolated from company), it is no choice >> (provided the hearing loss isn’t that profound so that CICs >> can still help me) >> Hearing fails as we get older, so older people wearing BTE aids >> are common and do not look out of place. Young kids wearing >> them have a hell of a life. Anything that prevents that is a good >> thing. >> Richard

Response:

Do you see a psychiatrist?  You appear to have many issues. "Richard Wood" <ne…@ukrm.co.uk> wrote in message

news:cpjjbg$r3p$1@server.localdomain… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "HEARA1" <hea…@aol.com> wrote in message > news:20041212165853.06002.00001301@mb-m21.aol.com… >> >Before this I wore one National Health BTE aid for about 25+ years. >> >(well, I wore it only when I absolutely needed to, taking it out as much >> >as possible) >> >If my deafness was that severe I needed BTE aids I would have them, >> >I’ve no doubt that I could hear a bit better with BTEs, but I can hear" >> >well >> >enough" now and thats "good enough for me!" >> Dear Richard, >> It saddens me than anyone with a communicative disability would settle >> for >> "good enough". >> I wish we all live all facets of life to their fullest potential & never >> settle >> for "good enough"!! > Having visible BTE aids would prevent me from enjoying going out in > public to its fullest potential due to the problems and prejudices > that a lot of members of the public would have about me, giving me > extreme self conciousness. > I do not wish people to come right up to my face and shout at me > cause they think I can’t hear. > I do not wish people to just avoid talking to me at all cause they > think it’ll be really difficuly to hold a conversation with a deaf person. > I do not wish people to think I’m generally stupid cause I am deaf. > I do not wish to go back to only wearing (BTE) aids when its > absolutely necessary cause I hate the things. > I do not wish to walk round with a sign around my neck saying > "Treat me like a normal bloody person, because I am!", cause > thats what I often felt like doing. Either that or just giving up > all together and becoming a work from home hermit who has > no interaction with other people at all, cause its just too much > hassle. > When I got my CIC aids my whole life changed. On one side because > I wasn’t self aware about them therefore I wear them all the time, > giving me better hearing in all situations, and secondly because they > were so much better than the NHS dinosaur, and I had two rather than > one. > For anyone who wears BTEs, isn’t bothered by how other people > act & think and so wear them all the time, I’m glad for you and them. > For people like me who have put up with the stigma of being > obviously deaf since a young kid, given the choice of appearing > "normal" with CICs, or still carrying round the deaf stigma and > wearing BTEs and probably not wearing them a lot of the time > (so being far more isolated from company), it is no choice > (provided the hearing loss isn’t that profound so that CICs > can still help me) > Hearing fails as we get older, so older people wearing BTE aids > are common and do not look out of place. Young kids wearing > them have a hell of a life. Anything that prevents that is a good > thing. > Richard

Response:

Greetings! On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 08:21:26 -0000, "Richard Wood" <ne…@ukrm.co.uk> wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->"HEARA1" <hea…@aol.com> wrote in message news:20041212165853.06002.00001301@mb-m21.aol.com… >> >Before this I wore one National Health BTE aid for about 25+ years. >> >(well, I wore it only when I absolutely needed to, taking it out as much >> >as possible) >> >If my deafness was that severe I needed BTE aids I would have them, >> >I’ve no doubt that I could hear a bit better with BTEs, but I can hear" well >> >enough" now and thats "good enough for me!" >> Dear Richard, >> It saddens me than anyone with a communicative disability would settle for >> "good enough". >> I wish we all live all facets of life to their fullest potential & never settle >> for "good enough"!! >Having visible BTE aids would prevent me from enjoying going out in >public to its fullest potential due to the problems and prejudices >that a lot of members of the public would have about me, giving me >extreme self conciousness. >I do not wish people to come right up to my face and shout at me >cause they think I can’t hear. >I do not wish people to just avoid talking to me at all cause they >think it’ll be really difficuly to hold a conversation with a deaf person. >I do not wish people to think I’m generally stupid cause I am deaf. >I do not wish to go back to only wearing (BTE) aids when its >absolutely necessary cause I hate the things. >I do not wish to walk round with a sign around my neck saying >"Treat me like a normal bloody person, because I am!", cause >thats what I often felt like doing. Either that or just giving up >all together and becoming a work from home hermit who has >no interaction with other people at all, cause its just too much >hassle. >When I got my CIC aids my whole life changed. On one side because >I wasn’t self aware about them therefore I wear them all the time, >giving me better hearing in all situations, and secondly because they >were so much better than the NHS dinosaur, and I had two rather than >one. >For anyone who wears BTEs, isn’t bothered by how other people >act & think and so wear them all the time, I’m glad for you and them. >For people like me who have put up with the stigma of being >obviously deaf since a young kid, given the choice of appearing >"normal" with CICs, or still carrying round the deaf stigma and >wearing BTEs and probably not wearing them a lot of the time >(so being far more isolated from company), it is no choice >(provided the hearing loss isn’t that profound so that CICs >can still help me) >Hearing fails as we get older, so older people wearing BTE aids >are common and do not look out of place. Young kids wearing >them have a hell of a life. Anything that prevents that is a good >thing. >Richard

Greetings! With all due respect…have you sought the services of a Councilor or Psychiatrist??? I’m totally serious. "Having visible BTE aids would prevent me from enjoying going out in public to its fullest potential due to the problems and prejudices" To me…this is totally nutty!!!  :-) I have NEVER experienced ANY discrimination from ANYBODY with my BTE aids. Indeed, I told my co-workers in advance about getting aids, and was actually disappointed in talking to each one for about an hour, that they simply DID NOT notice, and I actually had to point them out!!! Nor have I EVER had anybody act any differently to me while wearing my BTE hearing aids!  I think that most of this "They see my aids, and are out to get me" response, is for the most part, totally in the head of the wearer! Am I a total FREAK in wearing BTE’s and having absolutely no problems, or are am I in the distinct minority, and the vast majority of "VISIBLE BTE" wearers are having "problems and prejudices"??? Best Regards, Serpent

Response:

I have a "profound hearing loss", and wear BTE’s ’cause they do a better job for me than CIC or ITC…….they are the most powerful.  They are also not that visible.  My hearing loss developed in my late 40’s and early 50’s (I’m 56). Its resulted in numerous problems……job loss, relationship gone bad, and money problems. When I feel down about it, I try and think about those who are paralyzed, or missing limbs, or living in a cardboard box.   Then I know I don’t have it so bad. Get yourself the right hearing aids, and don’t feel so vain or sorry for yourself.

Response:

>Before this I wore one National Health BTE aid for about 25+ years. >(well, I wore it only when I absolutely needed to, taking it out as much >as possible) >If my deafness was that severe I needed BTE aids I would have them, >I’ve no doubt that I could hear a bit better with BTEs, but I can hear" well >enough" now and thats "good enough for me!"

Dear Richard, It saddens me than anyone with a communicative disability would settle for "good enough". I wish we all live all facets of life to their fullest potential & never settle for "good enough"!! HEARA1

Response:

>(the left year is useless plus i didn’t want to wear two hearing >aids).

Why would anyone ever want to wear any aid, other that to function better? What would it hurt to really try using your whole BRAIN to communicate. What does your provider recommend? > recommended >that i would go with a bigger hearing aid, she said the CIC can’t >bring you more than what the current analog one provides. i insisted >that i would stick to CIC because i have issues with the size of the hearing

aid. >. i don’t see >any difference at all comparing to the analog one.

Isn’t that what your provider warned you of? Starkey does build the best most powerful CIC available,but you can only build in so much power & sophistication in a tiny instrument. What do you have to loose by taking your providers advice? I believe trading a little vanity for better hearing is a super deal!! Wishing us all the best hearing attainable in the New Year, HEARA1

Response:

Funny you should say that, I like BTEs because they are more noticable, and that might send the message to someone that they might wan to speak a little louder and clearer when they speak to me. To Stu, yes, and a new automobile is only a few thousand dollars of metal and plastic.  Alls you need to do it get it in the right shape and it is a car!

Response:

<richar…@webtv.net> wrote in message news:8992-41BBCF31-606@storefull-3233.bay.webtv.net… > I have a "profound hearing loss", and wear BTE’s ’cause they do a better > job for me than CIC or ITC…….they are the most powerful.  They are > also not that visible.  My hearing loss developed in my late 40’s and > early 50’s (I’m 56). Its resulted in numerous problems……job loss, > relationship gone bad, and money problems. > When I feel down about it, I try and think about those who are > paralyzed, or missing limbs, or living in a cardboard box.   Then I know > I don’t have it so bad.

I’d try that, apart from I’ve been stuck at home for the past 3.5 years after a bad road accident letting various docs try and stick my right leg back together :- Life could be worse, at least I’ve still got my leg and there’s a good chance it’ll mend Richard

Response:

"HEARA1" <hea…@aol.com> wrote in message news:20041212165853.06002.00001301@mb-m21.aol.com… > >Before this I wore one National Health BTE aid for about 25+ years. > >(well, I wore it only when I absolutely needed to, taking it out as much > >as possible) > >If my deafness was that severe I needed BTE aids I would have them, > >I’ve no doubt that I could hear a bit better with BTEs, but I can hear" well > >enough" now and thats "good enough for me!" > Dear Richard, > It saddens me than anyone with a communicative disability would settle for > "good enough". > I wish we all live all facets of life to their fullest potential & never settle > for "good enough"!!

Having visible BTE aids would prevent me from enjoying going out in public to its fullest potential due to the problems and prejudices that a lot of members of the public would have about me, giving me extreme self conciousness. I do not wish people to come right up to my face and shout at me cause they think I can’t hear. I do not wish people to just avoid talking to me at all cause they think it’ll be really difficuly to hold a conversation with a deaf person. I do not wish people to think I’m generally stupid cause I am deaf. I do not wish to go back to only wearing (BTE) aids when its absolutely necessary cause I hate the things. I do not wish to walk round with a sign around my neck saying "Treat me like a normal bloody person, because I am!", cause thats what I often felt like doing. Either that or just giving up all together and becoming a work from home hermit who has no interaction with other people at all, cause its just too much hassle. When I got my CIC aids my whole life changed. On one side because I wasn’t self aware about them therefore I wear them all the time, giving me better hearing in all situations, and secondly because they were so much better than the NHS dinosaur, and I had two rather than one. For anyone who wears BTEs, isn’t bothered by how other people act & think and so wear them all the time, I’m glad for you and them. For people like me who have put up with the stigma of being obviously deaf since a young kid, given the choice of appearing "normal" with CICs, or still carrying round the deaf stigma and wearing BTEs and probably not wearing them a lot of the time (so being far more isolated from company), it is no choice (provided the hearing loss isn’t that profound so that CICs can still help me) Hearing fails as we get older, so older people wearing BTE aids are common and do not look out of place. Young kids wearing them have a hell of a life. Anything that prevents that is a good thing. Richard

Response:

Richard Wood said: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "HEARA1" <hea…@aol.com> wrote in message > news:20041212165853.06002.00001301@mb-m21.aol.com… >>> Before this I wore one National Health BTE aid for about 25+ years. >>> (well, I wore it only when I absolutely needed to, taking it out as much >>> as possible) >>> If my deafness was that severe I needed BTE aids I would have them, >>> I’ve no doubt that I could hear a bit better with BTEs, but I can hear" well >>> enough" now and thats "good enough for me!" >> Dear Richard, >> It saddens me than anyone with a communicative disability would settle for >> "good enough". >> I wish we all live all facets of life to their fullest potential & never >> settle >> for "good enough"!! > Having visible BTE aids would prevent me from enjoying going out in > public to its fullest potential due to the problems and prejudices > that a lot of members of the public would have about me,giving me > extreme self conciousness.

I lot of us seem to get by okay wearing BTE aids. I’m not aware of "the problems and prejudices that a lot of members of the public would have about me". Am I thick or are you perhaps assuming things that may not be true? > I do not wish people to come right up to my face and shout at me > cause they think I can’t hear.

They don’t do that to me, though occasionally they seem to not mind if I ask them to speak up or repeat themselves. > I do not wish people to just avoid talking to me at all cause they > think it’ll be really difficuly to hold a conversation with a deaf person.

You need to distinguish between deaf and hard of hearing. It _is_ really difficulty to hold a conversation with a deaf person. If I’m honest, it’s actually _me_ who avoids conversation more that others. > I do not wish people to think I’m generally stupid cause I am deaf.

Where does that come from? Who equates deafness with stupidity? You only appear stupid to people who _don’t_ know you have a hearing disability. The rest know _that you didn’t respond (or responded inappropriately) because you didn’t hear. > I do not wish to go back to only wearing (BTE) aids when its > absolutely necessary cause I hate the things.

That much is clear. Now, why do you hate the things that will improve your hearing to a level where you can function reliably? I don’t hate my hearing aids. Nor my glasses. Why is it such a big deal for you? > I do not wish to walk round with a sign around my neck saying > "Treat me like a normal bloody person, because I am!", > cause > thats what I often felt like doing.

Good, I suggest you don’t do that then. (Why would you?) > Either that or just giving up > all together and becoming a work from home hermit who has > no interaction with other people at all, cause its just too much > hassle.

I know that feeling. It’s hard when you have trouble haring and I now avoid places where I know I won’t be able to have a conversation. But hearing aids help. > When I got my CIC aids my whole life changed.

So did mine. > On one side because > I wasn’t self aware about them therefore I wear them all the time, > giving me better hearing in all situations, and secondly because they > were so much better than the NHS dinosaur, and I had two rather than > one. > For anyone who wears BTEs, isn’t bothered by how other people > act & think and so wear them all the time, I’m glad for you and them.

Well, that’s me but I had to decided that I _shouldn’t_ be embarrassed about them any more than anyone should be embarrassed about, say, wearing glasses or a prosthetic limb. > For people like me who have put up with the stigma of being > obviously deaf since a young kid, given the choice of appearing > "normal" with CICs, or still carrying round the deaf stigma and > wearing BTEs and probably not wearing them a lot of the time > (so being far more isolated from company), it is no choice > (provided the hearing loss isn’t that profound so that CICs > can still help me)

Kids are horrible. They’ll do almost anything to upset other kids; hit them, call them names, and yes, poke fun at their disabilities. If you had hearing aids at school you probably suffered this and probably ‘learnt’ that ‘people’ think there’s a stigma attached to wearing them. You’ve grown up, perhaps those who used to poke fun at you have, too. Look, maybe there _is_ a stigma attached to being hard of hearing but I think it’s borne mostly out of ignorance. As long as you agree that it’s something to be embarrassed about, wear CIC’s which are no longer loud enough so that people don’t notice your aids, wear flesh coloured aids (why don’t we treat them like the frames of our glasses?) and generally try to hide your hearing disability, then you reinforce the stigma. > Hearing fails as we get older, so older people wearing BTE aids > are common and do not look out of place. Young kids wearing > them have a hell of a life.

If that is true, (and I didn’t need aids till middle-age), I think we need to address the notion that a hearing disability is something to be ashamed of or embarrassed about. Trying to hide our hearing disabilities isn’t the way. > Anything that prevents that is a good > thing.

Agreed but kids are pretty sharp. They’ll soon notice CIC aids in the people in their classroom. They need to learn that the wearing oh hearing aids is not something to be ashamed of anymore than is the wearing of a pair of glasses. Steve  = : ^ )

Response:

On 11 Dec 2004 05:16:00 -0800, sideb_…@yahoo.com (bido) wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->hi all, >i am a 30 y/o male with hearing impairement. i inherited this issue >from my dad who is also HOH (I am the youngest of 4 children, the >other 3 are fine). my hearing started to manfiest when i was 10 y/o >and I started wearing a hearing aid on my right ear when i was around >14 (the left year is useless plus i didn’t want to wear two hearing >aids). i started with a viennatone one then moved to a starkey and >then another analog CIC starkey since 98 (it died yesterday after >breaking down twice before but fixed). my hearing has deterioted over >the years especially the last few ones. yesterday, my new audiologiest >here in montreal called me (one hour before the old hearing aid broke >down!) to inform me that the digital hearing aid that i ordered few >weeks ago is ready (a starkey as well). the audiologist recommended >that i would go with a bigger hearing aid, she said the CIC can’t >bring you more than what the current analog one provides. i insisted >that i would stick to CIC because i have issues with the size of the >hearing aid. i am trying the hearing aid now and I am very >disappointed! to the point that i am seriously depressed. i don’t see >any difference at all comparing to the analog one. actually, right >now, the sounds that i need to hear i either hear them very low or not >at all while useless sounds like when typing on the keyboard or the >sound of something that falls on the floor is so loud it is giving me >a headache. the hearing aid comes with a small button that let’s you >cycle through 3 different programs. that’s another joke, i actually >wonder if they ever tested it. other than the 1st program which the >default, i can’t pretty much hear anything with the other 2. >if this is what hearing aids companies got to invent after all these >years then i think they should all get fired.

FIRST…what is your hearing loss profile??? For example, I have a steep drop above 2K of about -65db, in both ears. SECOND…TOTALLY forget the CIC’s, as they are NOT an option if you want to hear the very best that you may,  as you describe your hearing loss! Move  to a Pair of powerful Digital BTE hearing aids such as the Triano 3P’s, or equivalent. Being hearing impaired, and utilizing the best hearing aids, for your apparent degree of hearing loss, is a partnership, between you and your audiologist. DO NOT limit that, by insisting upon CIC’s! Why would you not possibly want the BTE’s that seem apparent for your hearing loss solution? Best Regards, Serpent

Response:

hi all, i am a 30 y/o male with hearing impairement. i inherited this issue from my dad who is also HOH (I am the youngest of 4 children, the other 3 are fine). my hearing started to manfiest when i was 10 y/o and I started wearing a hearing aid on my right ear when i was around 14 (the left year is useless plus i didn’t want to wear two hearing aids). i started with a viennatone one then moved to a starkey and then another analog CIC starkey since 98 (it died yesterday after breaking down twice before but fixed). my hearing has deterioted over the years especially the last few ones. yesterday, my new audiologiest here in montreal called me (one hour before the old hearing aid broke down!) to inform me that the digital hearing aid that i ordered few weeks ago is ready (a starkey as well). the audiologist recommended that i would go with a bigger hearing aid, she said the CIC can’t bring you more than what the current analog one provides. i insisted that i would stick to CIC because i have issues with the size of the hearing aid. i am trying the hearing aid now and I am very disappointed! to the point that i am seriously depressed. i don’t see any difference at all comparing to the analog one. actually, right now, the sounds that i need to hear i either hear them very low or not at all while useless sounds like when typing on the keyboard or the sound of something that falls on the floor is so loud it is giving me a headache. the hearing aid comes with a small button that let’s you cycle through 3 different programs. that’s another joke, i actually wonder if they ever tested it. other than the 1st program which the default, i can’t pretty much hear anything with the other 2. if this is what hearing aids companies got to invent after all these years then i think they should all get fired.

Response:

My beef is that if you look at the advances and price-drops other electronic devices, most notably digital cameras and computers,  have made in just a few years,  hearing aids are still quite expensive.  If hearing aids made that kind of progress,  we would all be wearing Trianos and they would only cost about $200 a pair! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Serpent wrote: > On 11 Dec 2004 05:16:00 -0800, sideb_…@yahoo.com (bido) wrote: >>hi all, >>i am a 30 y/o male with hearing impairement. i inherited this issue >>from my dad who is also HOH (I am the youngest of 4 children, the >>other 3 are fine). my hearing started to manfiest when i was 10 y/o >>and I started wearing a hearing aid on my right ear when i was around >>14 (the left year is useless plus i didn’t want to wear two hearing >>aids). i started with a viennatone one then moved to a starkey and >>then another analog CIC starkey since 98 (it died yesterday after >>breaking down twice before but fixed). my hearing has deterioted over >>the years especially the last few ones. yesterday, my new audiologiest >>here in montreal called me (one hour before the old hearing aid broke >>down!) to inform me that the digital hearing aid that i ordered few >>weeks ago is ready (a starkey as well). the audiologist recommended >>that i would go with a bigger hearing aid, she said the CIC can’t >>bring you more than what the current analog one provides. i insisted >>that i would stick to CIC because i have issues with the size of the >>hearing aid. i am trying the hearing aid now and I am very >>disappointed! to the point that i am seriously depressed. i don’t see >>any difference at all comparing to the analog one. actually, right >>now, the sounds that i need to hear i either hear them very low or not >>at all while useless sounds like when typing on the keyboard or the >>sound of something that falls on the floor is so loud it is giving me >>a headache. the hearing aid comes with a small button that let’s you >>cycle through 3 different programs. that’s another joke, i actually >>wonder if they ever tested it. other than the 1st program which the >>default, i can’t pretty much hear anything with the other 2. >>if this is what hearing aids companies got to invent after all these >>years then i think they should all get fired. > FIRST…what is your hearing loss profile??? > For example, I have a steep drop above 2K of about -65db, in both > ears. > SECOND…TOTALLY forget the CIC’s, as they are NOT an option if you > want to hear the very best that you may,  as you describe your hearing > loss! > Move  to a Pair of powerful Digital BTE hearing aids such as the > Triano 3P’s, or equivalent. > Being hearing impaired, and utilizing the best hearing aids, for your > apparent degree of hearing loss, is a partnership, between you and > your audiologist. > DO NOT limit that, by insisting upon CIC’s! > Why would you not possibly want the BTE’s that seem apparent for your > hearing loss solution? > Best Regards, > Serpent

Response:

That would work if you could buy the testing and programming software and hardware interface to program your $200 HA.  And if you could do your own programming.   Otherwise, your fitter/audie will earn his/her money for the several visits catering to your fitting.   When you visit your doctor at $100+ a pop, how many minutes does he actually spend with you?  How long does your audie have to spend getting it "right"?  And would you do business with him/her if his office was in his hat?  And wouldn’t it be great if no one in the world had more spending power than either you or I? On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 18:51:43 GMT, Bruce Coryell <bcory…@chesco.com> wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->My beef is that if you look at the advances and price-drops other >electronic devices, most notably digital cameras and computers,  have >made in just a few years,  hearing aids are still quite expensive.  If >hearing aids made that kind of progress,  we would all be wearing >Trianos and they would only cost about $200 a pair! >Serpent wrote: >> On 11 Dec 2004 05:16:00 -0800, sideb_…@yahoo.com (bido) wrote: >>>hi all, >>>i am a 30 y/o male with hearing impairement. i inherited this issue >>>from my dad who is also HOH (I am the youngest of 4 children, the >>>other 3 are fine). my hearing started to manfiest when i was 10 y/o >>>and I started wearing a hearing aid on my right ear when i was around >>>14 (the left year is useless plus i didn’t want to wear two hearing >>>aids). i started with a viennatone one then moved to a starkey and >>>then another analog CIC starkey since 98 (it died yesterday after >>>breaking down twice before but fixed). my hearing has deterioted over >>>the years especially the last few ones. yesterday, my new audiologiest >>>here in montreal called me (one hour before the old hearing aid broke >>>down!) to inform me that the digital hearing aid that i ordered few >>>weeks ago is ready (a starkey as well). the audiologist recommended >>>that i would go with a bigger hearing aid, she said the CIC can’t >>>bring you more than what the current analog one provides. i insisted >>>that i would stick to CIC because i have issues with the size of the >>>hearing aid. i am trying the hearing aid now and I am very >>>disappointed! to the point that i am seriously depressed. i don’t see >>>any difference at all comparing to the analog one. actually, right >>>now, the sounds that i need to hear i either hear them very low or not >>>at all while useless sounds like when typing on the keyboard or the >>>sound of something that falls on the floor is so loud it is giving me >>>a headache. the hearing aid comes with a small button that let’s you >>>cycle through 3 different programs. that’s another joke, i actually >>>wonder if they ever tested it. other than the 1st program which the >>>default, i can’t pretty much hear anything with the other 2. >>>if this is what hearing aids companies got to invent after all these >>>years then i think they should all get fired. >> FIRST…what is your hearing loss profile??? >> For example, I have a steep drop above 2K of about -65db, in both >> ears. >> SECOND…TOTALLY forget the CIC’s, as they are NOT an option if you >> want to hear the very best that you may,  as you describe your hearing >> loss! >> Move  to a Pair of powerful Digital BTE hearing aids such as the >> Triano 3P’s, or equivalent. >> Being hearing impaired, and utilizing the best hearing aids, for your >> apparent degree of hearing loss, is a partnership, between you and >> your audiologist. >> DO NOT limit that, by insisting upon CIC’s! >> Why would you not possibly want the BTE’s that seem apparent for your >> hearing loss solution? >> Best Regards, >> Serpent

Response:

"Serpent" <t…@none.com> wrote in message news:f7vlr09ou6arsipfo5rlrdft9in7pmt32l@4ax.com… > Why would you not possibly want the BTE’s that seem apparent for your > hearing loss solution?

For me its because I do not want to be discriminated against, or have people "stare" at me because I’m obviously deaf. I’ve worn two CIC aids for 5 years and have just ordered two replacement CIC aids. I did consider the next size up (almost in canal or something) that had dual microphones, soley for the purpose of having directionality functionality in the aid but decided against it, as I consider that CIC aid takes advantage of the natural acoustics of the human ear. Before this I wore one National Health BTE aid for about 25+ years. (well, I wore it only when I absolutely needed to, taking it out as much as possible) If my deafness was that severe I needed BTE aids I would have them, but its not. (yet I’ve no doubt that I could hear a bit better with BTEs, but I can hear well enough now and thats good enough for me! Richard

Response:

We are all God's children. (Bumper sticker, button, shirt)

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – you posted in alt.religion.christianity : you posted in alt.religion.christianity : But a bumper sticker, button, or shirt with a simple, yet important message: "We are all God’s children."             And He treats me as the unwanted one…. Paul paul. can u explain your statement ?            My life has been a constant struggle with pain and problems that have one source…I was born with them, i.e. God gave them to me. And you are determined to whine about them and feel sorry for yourself instead of growing strong through them. Ever lived in an orphanage?  Ever had a leg broken in 15 places, an arm broken in five, and the other arm broken in 3? I have. Do I whine or feel sorry for myself because of it?  No, I just live with the arthritus and pain and get on with my life, blessed as God gives me joy. You ought to try it. in Christ Jesus Christian        This is just the simpering, brain-dead type of platitudes that I despise…. When others live with pain all of our lives, it is "brain-dead type of platitudes," but when you do, it is "special" and we should all appreciate your whining and self-pity? Have to say that I agree with you on this one, Velocitius! Shalom, Bill LOL!  Sorry, but you are a hypocrite of the first water! in Christ Jesus, Christian            You expect God and Jesus to listen to YOURS….

Paul, Jesus is long dead, and the god of the Bible doesn’t even exist. The true God that does exist doesn’t help or hinder us at all. Shalom, Bill – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Paul

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – you posted in alt.religion.christianity : But a bumper sticker, button, or shirt with a simple, yet important message: "We are all God’s children."             And He treats me as the unwanted one…. Paul paul. can u explain your statement ?            My life has been a constant struggle with pain and problems that have one source…I was born with them, i.e. God gave them to me. And you are determined to whine about them and feel sorry for yourself instead of growing strong through them. Ever lived in an orphanage?  Ever had a leg broken in 15 places, an arm broken in five, and the other arm broken in 3? I have. Do I whine or feel sorry for myself because of it?  No, I just live with the arthritus and pain and get on with my life, blessed as God gives me joy. You ought to try it. in Christ Jesus Christian

        This is just the simpering, brain-dead type of platitudes that I despise…. Paul

Response:

you posted in alt.religion.christianity : – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – you posted in alt.religion.christianity : But a bumper sticker, button, or shirt with a simple, yet important message: "We are all God’s children."             And He treats me as the unwanted one…. Paul paul. can u explain your statement ?            My life has been a constant struggle with pain and problems that have one source…I was born with them, i.e. God gave them to me. And you are determined to whine about them and feel sorry for yourself instead of growing strong through them. Ever lived in an orphanage?  Ever had a leg broken in 15 places, an arm broken in five, and the other arm broken in 3? I have. Do I whine or feel sorry for myself because of it?  No, I just live with the arthritus and pain and get on with my life, blessed as God gives me joy. You ought to try it. in Christ Jesus Christian        This is just the simpering, brain-dead type of platitudes that I despise….

When others live with pain all of our lives, it is "brain-dead type of platitudes," but when you do, it is "special" and we should all appreciate your whining and self-pity? LOL!  Sorry, but you are a hypocrite of the first water! in Christ Jesus, Christian

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – you posted in alt.religion.christianity : you posted in alt.religion.christianity : But a bumper sticker, button, or shirt with a simple, yet important message: "We are all God’s children."             And He treats me as the unwanted one…. Paul paul. can u explain your statement ?            My life has been a constant struggle with pain and problems that have one source…I was born with them, i.e. God gave them to me. And you are determined to whine about them and feel sorry for yourself instead of growing strong through them. Ever lived in an orphanage?  Ever had a leg broken in 15 places, an arm broken in five, and the other arm broken in 3? I have. Do I whine or feel sorry for myself because of it?  No, I just live with the arthritus and pain and get on with my life, blessed as God gives me joy. You ought to try it. in Christ Jesus Christian        This is just the simpering, brain-dead type of platitudes that I despise…. When others live with pain all of our lives, it is "brain-dead type of platitudes," but when you do, it is "special" and we should all appreciate your whining and self-pity?

Have to say that I agree with you on this one, Velocitius! Shalom, Bill – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – LOL!  Sorry, but you are a hypocrite of the first water! in Christ Jesus, Christian

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – you posted in alt.religion.christianity : you posted in alt.religion.christianity : But a bumper sticker, button, or shirt with a simple, yet important message: "We are all God’s children."             And He treats me as the unwanted one…. Paul paul. can u explain your statement ?            My life has been a constant struggle with pain and problems that have one source…I was born with them, i.e. God gave them to me. And you are determined to whine about them and feel sorry for yourself instead of growing strong through them. Ever lived in an orphanage?  Ever had a leg broken in 15 places, an arm broken in five, and the other arm broken in 3? I have. Do I whine or feel sorry for myself because of it?  No, I just live with the arthritus and pain and get on with my life, blessed as God gives me joy. You ought to try it. in Christ Jesus Christian        This is just the simpering, brain-dead type of platitudes that I despise…. When others live with pain all of our lives, it is "brain-dead type of platitudes," but when you do, it is "special" and we should all appreciate your whining and self-pity? Have to say that I agree with you on this one, Velocitius! Shalom, Bill LOL!  Sorry, but you are a hypocrite of the first water! in Christ Jesus, Christian

            You expect God and Jesus to listen to YOURS…. Paul

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – But a bumper sticker, button, or shirt with a simple, yet important message: "We are all God’s children."             And He treats me as the unwanted one…. Paul paul. can u explain your statement ?             My life has been a constant struggle with pain and problems that have one source…I was born with them, i.e. God gave them to me. Paul can u tell us some more about yourself. maybe me and some others would have a chance to talk to u more and maybe through communication we can listen to u and learn and maybe help u too.

            The issues I have are a little too complicated for most people to understand…especially many of those in groups like these, so caught up in keeping the image of Perfect God. Paul

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – But a bumper sticker, button, or shirt with a simple, yet important message: "We are all God’s children."             And He treats me as the unwanted one…. Paul paul. can u explain your statement ?            My life has been a constant struggle with pain and problems that have one source…I was born with them, i.e. God gave them to me. Paul God never has, and never will, interfere in the affairs of human beings in any way, shape or form. We’re all immortal spiritual beings currently having a human experience, and learning a great deal in the process. I’d be willing to bet that you chose whatever has caused you pain and problems before you incarnated here. some of u people amaze me with your language. what about a child born with some kind of debilitating disease. do u think this child chose this ? and by the way if u mosey over to landmark education and take the forum they will tell u that u chose everything in your life that u considered to be wrong. do u believe that someone who has polio chose it ? how about cancer ? i just told u to go join a cult but it looks that u dont need to because u have chosen it appears another one. if u choose a cult are u responsible ?

and i have question for u. your statement reeks of new age awareness traings of some kind. does your pastor teach u that u chose ? if he did, ask him if he has ever been to a new age awareness training. u find he did. I came into this life with a 45% hearing loss in both ears and I’ve got a pretty good idea of why I chose to be so handicapped. By the way, you and everything else that exists in the Universe is a part of God and therefore necessary! Cheer up, Paul, it’ll get better, believe me! Shalom, Bill

– Love is all u need.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – But a bumper sticker, button, or shirt with a simple, yet important message: "We are all God’s children."             And He treats me as the unwanted one…. Paul paul. can u explain your statement ?            My life has been a constant struggle with pain and problems that have one source…I was born with them, i.e. God gave them to me. Paul God never has, and never will, interfere in the affairs of human beings in any way, shape or form. We’re all immortal spiritual beings currently having a human experience, and learning a great deal in the process. I’d be willing to bet that you chose whatever has caused you pain and problems before you incarnated here.

some of u people amaze me with your language. what about a child born with some kind of debilitating disease. do u think this child chose this ? and by the way if u mosey over to landmark education and take the forum they will tell u that u chose everything in your life that u considered to be wrong. do u believe that someone who has polio chose it ? how about cancer ? i just told u to go join a cult but it looks that u dont need to because u have chosen it appears another one. if u choose a cult are u responsible ? I came into this life with a 45% hearing loss in both ears and I’ve got a pretty good idea of why I chose to be so handicapped. By the way, you and everything else that exists in the Universe is a part of God and therefore necessary! Cheer up, Paul, it’ll get better, believe me! Shalom, Bill

– Love is all u need.

Response:

you posted in alt.religion.christianity : – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – But a bumper sticker, button, or shirt with a simple, yet important message: "We are all God’s children."             And He treats me as the unwanted one…. Paul paul. can u explain your statement ?            My life has been a constant struggle with pain and problems that have one source…I was born with them, i.e. God gave them to me.

And you are determined to whine about them and feel sorry for yourself instead of growing strong through them. Ever lived in an orphanage?  Ever had a leg broken in 15 places, an arm broken in five, and the other arm broken in 3? I have. Do I whine or feel sorry for myself because of it?  No, I just live with the arthritus and pain and get on with my life, blessed as God gives me joy. You ought to try it. in Christ Jesus Christian

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – But a bumper sticker, button, or shirt with a simple, yet important message: "We are all God’s children."             And He treats me as the unwanted one…. Paul paul. can u explain your statement ?            My life has been a constant struggle with pain and problems that have one source…I was born with them, i.e. God gave them to me. Paul

God never has, and never will, interfere in the affairs of human beings in any way, shape or form. We’re all immortal spiritual beings currently having a human experience, and learning a great deal in the process. I’d be willing to bet that you chose whatever has caused you pain and problems before you incarnated here. I came into this life with a 45% hearing loss in both ears and I’ve got a pretty good idea of why I chose to be so handicapped. By the way, you and everything else that exists in the Universe is a part of God and therefore necessary! Cheer up, Paul, it’ll get better, believe me! Shalom, Bill – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

But a bumper sticker, button, or shirt with a simple, yet important message: "We are all God’s children."             And He treats me as the unwanted one…. Paul

paul. can u explain your statement ? — Love is all u need.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – But a bumper sticker, button, or shirt with a simple, yet important message: "We are all God’s children."             And He treats me as the unwanted one…. Paul paul. can u explain your statement ?

            My life has been a constant struggle with pain and problems that have one source…I was born with them, i.e. God gave them to me. Paul

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – But a bumper sticker, button, or shirt with a simple, yet important message: "We are all God’s children."             And He treats me as the unwanted one…. Paul paul. can u explain your statement ?             My life has been a constant struggle with pain and problems that have one source…I was born with them, i.e. God gave them to me. Paul

can u tell us some more about yourself. maybe me and some others would have a chance to talk to u more and maybe through communication we can listen to u and learn and maybe help u too. — Love is all u need.

Response:

But a bumper sticker, button, or shirt with a simple, yet important message: "We are all God’s children." Spread the love of Jesus Christ, and His Great Commandment. http://www.cafepress.com/allgodschildren

Response:

But a bumper sticker, button, or shirt with a simple, yet important message: "We are all God’s children."

            And He treats me as the unwanted one…. Paul

Response:

Poor hearing of speech

Question:

Hi, From what I can make out, this isn’t the usual sort of topic that comes up here, but this is the group closest to the field of my query, so if you can think of anywhere better I should go, I’m all ears (pun respectfully intended). I generally have normal hearing faculties. I can hear noises from a distance, I can pick out and recognise music coming from a distance while in a hubbub of noise. When it comes to music, I seem to have far better than average hearing. (This may be significant in what I’m to say next.) However, I’m quite useless when it comes to speech. If there are no other major noises, and the person speaks clearly, I can usually hear what they’re saying perfectly. But if I’m in a club, bar, etc, and someone even shouts in my ear over the background din, I still find it almost impossible to comprehend them. This doesn’t strike me as a problem of concentration, since if someone’s shouting in my ear, I’m definitely concentrating! Does this sound characteristic of some form of ‘hearing loss’? Or should I be looking at other psychological / medical factors? Or, simply, is this just how some of us work? I have tried Googling but to no avail, and it seems too minor to see a specialist about, as I’m not the type to spend too long in noisy places anyway But any ideas would be most appreciated! Cheers, Pete

Response:

"Peter Cooper" <x…@boog.co.uk> wrote in message

news:2halpgFarkssU1@uni-berlin.de… > However, I’m quite useless when it comes to speech.

I suggest you visit a competent audiologist, which I (and maybe I alone) define as follows: 1. Masters or doctorate from an accredited school 2. 15 or more years of clinical practice 3. Co-located with a medical otology practice 4. Well-equipped (but how would you know?) facility You should get a medical review first to ensure that the problem does not have its roots in some medical pathology. You might get lucky and discover an almond-size block of earwax in each ear. But the likeliest finding is that what you hear as "music" isn’t what those with normal hearing perceive, that you have some degree of sensorineural hearing loss (damaged hair cells) resulting in a rapid decline above 3-4kHz, and (above all) that your discrimination (ability to tell one word from another) is poor. If that’s so, you’ll get some satisfaction from one or two decent hearing aid(s). At some point you might fill out a lengthy form asking about time on the pistol range, number of rock concerts, music habits, usage of power tools, hours flying as a pilot, etc., but that’s all of statistical utility and won’t point toward a solution because once the damage is done it’s probably not possible to restore destroyed tissues. Good luck!!

Response:

You are in the right place, I will refrain from offering advice, I am a newbie, there are people here who are eminently qualified to offer advice, stick around for a while. I have learned a great deal in the few months that I have been parsing this newsgroup. "Peter Cooper" <x…@boog.co.uk> wrote in message

news:2halpgFarkssU1@uni-berlin.de… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi, > From what I can make out, this isn’t the usual sort of topic that comes up > here, but this is the group closest to the field of my query, so if you can > think of anywhere better I should go, I’m all ears (pun respectfully > intended). > I generally have normal hearing faculties. I can hear noises from a > distance, I can pick out and recognise music coming from a distance while in > a hubbub of noise. When it comes to music, I seem to have far better than > average hearing. (This may be significant in what I’m to say next.) > However, I’m quite useless when it comes to speech. If there are no other > major noises, and the person speaks clearly, I can usually hear what they’re > saying perfectly. But if I’m in a club, bar, etc, and someone even shouts in > my ear over the background din, I still find it almost impossible to > comprehend them. This doesn’t strike me as a problem of concentration, since > if someone’s shouting in my ear, I’m definitely concentrating! > Does this sound characteristic of some form of ‘hearing loss’? Or should I > be looking at other psychological / medical factors? Or, simply, is this > just how some of us work? I have tried Googling but to no avail, and it > seems too minor to see a specialist about, as I’m not the type to spend too > long in noisy places anyway But any ideas would be most appreciated! > Cheers, > Pete

Response:

=|[ Stu-R's ]|= wrote: > I thought I’d missed something.  I returned to Phonak’s pages and > found nothing about user friendly or techie adjustable for the Claro.

I downloaded a pdf on the Phonak Claro and it makes those claims, http://www.phonak.com/com_028-0001-xx_claro_brochure.pdf Ive no great name (left after rudeness) to maintain in this alt newsgroup and have nothing to loose from being wrong on specifics, so dont need to be sure the Claros actualy *are* user friendly to pose the case :} Funnily enough, it mentions an auto calibration feature and wristwatch control that I thought of a couple of months ago while theorising about possibilities. > Most modern digital HAs have to be set up on the computer.  They are > easily as complex as any car computer system.  What’s even more > challenging is that the software is normally not designed to work with > windows but with an HA-dedicated operating system.

This is an *extremely unneccessary* state of affairs if it is presently the case for all currently available HAs. > The software programs are usually designed for specific HAs by model.   > And they are updated  regularly.  Have you outfitted yourself with your > own HAs?

My Grandmothers HA (she will only wear one) was squaking, inadequate and -I suspect, actualy damaging her hearing, the NHS wouldnt give her a new one. My family organised a visit from an audiologist, but although she has the money, she is too frugal to pay out the large sum which the Audiologist asked for. Being technologicaly literate myself, I believe the sum involved is very much a capital contrivance.. anyway. > If you did, did you get a professionally administered hearing test to > start with?  Or did you measure yourself?  My hats off to you  if you > were successful.

I did a rough test on my grans ears myself – with a laptop and some .wav files – just to give me a feeling for her abilities. Audiologists will use precision equipment to test ears, but there is always a chance of a large margin of error, especialy testing someone like my gran, who will give false answers for no apparent reason. I got Siemens Digital ~302 I think, off an Ebay supplier. These are well below the capabilities I understand are possible of HAs, but we make do – in another Era they could have been the best, to many of our poorer contemporaries, they would be just brilliant and they are to my Gran compaired to her previous Aid. They have 4 tiny dial controls inside a tiny trapdoor which can be adjusted with a tiny screwdriver. The aid comes with fine, fairly technical notation of the controls functions. I judged these and tried a configuration on my gran which I new would be too quiet and use too much noise cancellation and output protection, and worked up while judging her responses. To any technician in this circumstance a precise frequency threshold plot is all but useless, because you are dealing with practical implementation and appreciation, not precise theoretical values. Calibration of such an aid involves fuzzy logic, not academic certainties, thats my belief anyway. My Gran is of course 100% satisfied with my attention, but the result is proved by the fact she watches TV at normal volume, converses easily indoors outdoors, reports no problems and never takes the thing off. I also superglued the little volume control on the aid, as she learned to fiddle with it reflexively on her previous aid. Its one less thing for her to think of and get confused by, the compression and other settings of the aid make it of marginal use. It was tricky to do this with my gran, but for *Many* they could do it for themselves, no problem at all as long as they can access the available controls on the aid and have a reasonable starting guide, they can find the sweetspots themselves through trial and error. Im waiting to buy aids for myself that I can wear in the pub to save and enhance my own hearing which aint too bad at all, Ill want 100Hz to 13Khz frequency range and excellent subtle DSP before its worth it though, in the meantime Ill stick to scrunched up bits of paper. — ‘ somewhat volatile regards,   android To my shame Ive been really rude and unpleasant in this newsgroup a couple of times, but if ive disturbed some… I am disturbed that information is not forthcoming and computer literate alt.usenet posters are routinely discouraged from taking charge of their own equipment. Oh well, fwiw sorry. I suppose proprietary attention is better than none. My Gran’s ok and for others, I do believe this practice will become a thing of the past due to the continuing pressure that advancing eletronic technology is putting on it.

Response:

I thought I was being helpful, if you can do it all yourself, I don’t see what the problem is. In article <10j1h1qye2d7l.10a55207evilu….@40tude.net>, l…@l.lll says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> =|[ Susan's ]|= wrote: > > You audiologist needs > How come an audiologist is required for this adjustment, considering the > Claros are designed and marketed to be User Friendly, self adjustable aids > ?? > > to lower the mpo (maximum peak output) of the aids > (fancy terminology for a type of volume control – it does what it sounds) > > and the kneepoint of the high frequencies (TK). > (fancy terminology for a type of tone control – it does what it sounds) > > There is no reason that > > this should be an issue for you. > If I had payed an audiologist to procure HAs for me, I would expect to have > their controls explained to me. (actualy I would just insist on recieving > the full documentation, but many will benefit from help with that) > This way the Hearing Aid purchaser can become the expert of their own > equipment, and make many more refinements in their own time than they could > by repeat visits to the audiologist.

Response:

Peak clipping is a primitive way of output limiting.  It distorts the loud sounds in a noticable way.  You are basically chopping off parts of sound. Compression (WDRC  wide dynamic range compression or SC  super compression) keep the integrity of the sound wave and just "squish" it at the peaks.  Allowing for loud sounds to still be audible and understandable, but not uncomfortable. In article <10b505hovodt…@corp.supernews.com>, bennerBO…@personainternet.com says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Susan" <hearinghel…@spamverizon.net> wrote in message > news:MPG.1b1c386697d95c32989684@news.verizon.net… > > Peak clipping is not used in digital hearing aids. > No peak clipping…..could you please explain the reason for that?

Response:

Thanks. "Susan" <hearinghel…@spamverizon.net> wrote in message

news:MPG.1b1c610d5a9365a2989686@news.verizon.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Peak clipping is a primitive way of output limiting.  It distorts the > loud sounds in a noticable way.  You are basically chopping off parts of > sound. Compression (WDRC  wide dynamic range compression or SC  super > compression) keep the integrity of the sound wave and just "squish" it > at the peaks.  Allowing for loud sounds to still be audible and > understandable, but not uncomfortable. > In article <10b505hovodt…@corp.supernews.com>, > bennerBO…@personainternet.com says… > > "Susan" <hearinghel…@spamverizon.net> wrote in message > > news:MPG.1b1c386697d95c32989684@news.verizon.net… > > > Peak clipping is not used in digital hearing aids. > > No peak clipping…..could you please explain the reason for that?

Response:

"Susan" <hearinghel…@spamverizon.net> wrote in message

news:MPG.1b1c386697d95c32989684@news.verizon.net… > Peak clipping is not used in digital hearing aids.

No peak clipping…..could you please explain the reason for that?

Response:

I thought I’d missed something.  I returned to Phonak’s pages and found nothing about user friendly or techie adjustable for the Claro. Most modern digital HAs have to be set up on the computer.  They are easily as complex as any car computer system.  What’s even more challenging is that the software is normally not designed to work with windows but with an HA-dedicated operating system.  The software programs are usually designed for specific HAs by model.  And they are updated  regularly.  Have you outfitted yourself with your own HAs? If you did, did you get a professionally administered hearing test to start with?  Or did you measure yourself?  My hats off to you  if you were successful. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Mon, 24 May 2004 23:50:44 +0100, Creeping Stone <l…@l.lll> wrote: >=|[ Susan's ]|= wrote: >> You audiologist needs >How come an audiologist is required for this adjustment, considering the >Claros are designed and marketed to be User Friendly, self adjustable aids >?? >> to lower the mpo (maximum peak output) of the aids >(fancy terminology for a type of volume control – it does what it sounds) >> and the kneepoint of the high frequencies (TK). >(fancy terminology for a type of tone control – it does what it sounds) >> There is no reason that >> this should be an issue for you. >If I had payed an audiologist to procure HAs for me, I would expect to have >their controls explained to me. (actualy I would just insist on recieving >the full documentation, but many will benefit from help with that) >This way the Hearing Aid purchaser can become the expert of their own >equipment, and make many more refinements in their own time than they could >by repeat visits to the audiologist.

Response:

Try this web site. Scroll to compression. http://www.hearingusa.com/circuits.htm

Response:

You audiologist needs to lower the mpo (maximum peak output) of the aids and the kneepoint of the high frequencies (TK).  There is no reason that this should be an issue for you. In article <jv92b0hgbs1jtapacrub16f0kb70g2q…@4ax.com>, jun…@invalid.com says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> On Sun, 23 May 2004 18:44:40 GMT, Stu-R <st…@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > (snip) > >My new hearing aids are > >wonderful.  They limit shouts, loud noises, and mercifully the sound > >levels of angry screaming children in public places.  Ain’t technology > >grand. > Screaming children in public places are excruciatingly annoying with > my HAs (Phonak Claros).  Which HAs have you got?  Anything special > about the particular program on those HAs that you know of?  Thanks.

Response:

Peak clipping is not used in digital hearing aids. In article <240520041017310903%patdr…@mindspring.com>, patdr…@mindspring.com says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In article > <bearclaw-4EAFBE.06491024052…@newsclstr01.news.prodigy.com>, > <bearc…@cruller.invalid> wrote: > > In article <g5r2b093v5b4a7h7k2auj0r974hqmpr…@4ax.com>, > >  Stu-R <st…@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > > > You may have to work with your audiologist to get the > > > compression ratios and loudness ranges set the way you like them.  Too > > > much and my hearing sounds better than the HAs.  Too little and the > > > loud sounds are intolerable. > > My audiologist mentioned "compression". She looked at me like I should > > know what she was talking about. I didn’t say anything, because I > > thought of all the times I’d read the word in this group. Now, I’m > > wondering what it means in relation to HAs. > > I know what compression is in terms of network data transfer and digital > > video. But when I think of those definitions in terms of sound, > > compression seems like something a HOH person would want to avoid. Can > > someone set me straight here? > In the pro audio world, compression is manipulating the signal so that > the softer sounds are louder and the louder sounds are softer.   Sort > of a "leveling" of the signal.        A compressor in the signal chain > will chop off the peaks of the loud sound waveforms and will boost the > peaks of softer sounds so you can hear them.   All of this is > adjustable and takes some twiddling to get set correctly.      I’m > assuming the audiologist would be able to adjust this in the HAs for > optimum balance. > Pat

Response:

=|[ Susan's ]|= wrote: > You audiologist needs

How come an audiologist is required for this adjustment, considering the Claros are designed and marketed to be User Friendly, self adjustable aids ?? > to lower the mpo (maximum peak output) of the aids

(fancy terminology for a type of volume control – it does what it sounds) > and the kneepoint of the high frequencies (TK).

(fancy terminology for a type of tone control – it does what it sounds) > There is no reason that > this should be an issue for you.

If I had payed an audiologist to procure HAs for me, I would expect to have their controls explained to me. (actualy I would just insist on recieving the full documentation, but many will benefit from help with that) This way the Hearing Aid purchaser can become the expert of their own equipment, and make many more refinements in their own time than they could by repeat visits to the audiologist. — ‘ gathering moss,   android

Response:

In article <bearclaw-4EAFBE.06491024052…@newsclstr01.news.prodigy.com>, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<bearc…@cruller.invalid> wrote: > In article <g5r2b093v5b4a7h7k2auj0r974hqmpr…@4ax.com>, >  Stu-R <st…@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > > You may have to work with your audiologist to get the > > compression ratios and loudness ranges set the way you like them.  Too > > much and my hearing sounds better than the HAs.  Too little and the > > loud sounds are intolerable. > My audiologist mentioned "compression". She looked at me like I should > know what she was talking about. I didn’t say anything, because I > thought of all the times I’d read the word in this group. Now, I’m > wondering what it means in relation to HAs. > I know what compression is in terms of network data transfer and digital > video. But when I think of those definitions in terms of sound, > compression seems like something a HOH person would want to avoid. Can > someone set me straight here?

In the pro audio world, compression is manipulating the signal so that the softer sounds are louder and the louder sounds are softer.   Sort of a "leveling" of the signal.        A compressor in the signal chain will chop off the peaks of the loud sound waveforms and will boost the peaks of softer sounds so you can hear them.   All of this is adjustable and takes some twiddling to get set correctly.      I’m assuming the audiologist would be able to adjust this in the HAs for optimum balance. Pat

Response:

Another name is Dynamic Processing. <bearc…@cruller.invalid> wrote in message

news:bearclaw-4EAFBE.06491024052004@newsclstr01.news.prodigy.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In article <g5r2b093v5b4a7h7k2auj0r974hqmpr…@4ax.com>, >  Stu-R <st…@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > > You may have to work with your audiologist to get the > > compression ratios and loudness ranges set the way you like them.  Too > > much and my hearing sounds better than the HAs.  Too little and the > > loud sounds are intolerable. > My audiologist mentioned "compression". She looked at me like I should > know what she was talking about. I didn’t say anything, because I > thought of all the times I’d read the word in this group. Now, I’m > wondering what it means in relation to HAs. > I know what compression is in terms of network data transfer and digital > video. But when I think of those definitions in terms of sound, > compression seems like something a HOH person would want to avoid. Can > someone set me straight here?

Response:

Just got a pair of Siemens Triano 3 BTEs.  They have both digital noise processing,  and variable compression in four groups of four bands each (total of 16 bands.  The noise limiting/compression programs seem to be very effective.  The BTE Triano 3 is the only one with three microphones and a cardioid pattern that automatically (in automatic mode) rotates  the null in the pattern toward the noise source.  The three microphone array has a front-back ratio of 7db. The noise control on these HAs also limit things like the cracking sound on opening drink can tabs.  The sounds are still there.  But there is definitely a loudness ceiling on them.   I also do music video/sound editing for my church and am a classical music lover.  All of which is enhanced and not limited by the HAs. I  would think the Phonak Claros can be adjusted to perform comparably.  You may have to work with your audiologist to get the compression ratios and loudness ranges set the way you like them.  Too much and my hearing sounds better than the HAs.  Too little and the loud sounds are intolerable. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Mon, 24 May 2004 09:01:03 +1000, jun…@invalid.com wrote: >On Sun, 23 May 2004 18:44:40 GMT, Stu-R <st…@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >(snip) >>My new hearing aids are >>wonderful.  They limit shouts, loud noises, and mercifully the sound >>levels of angry screaming children in public places.  Ain’t technology >>grand. >Screaming children in public places are excruciatingly annoying with >my HAs (Phonak Claros).  Which HAs have you got?  Anything special >about the particular program on those HAs that you know of?  Thanks.

Response:

In article <g5r2b093v5b4a7h7k2auj0r974hqmpr…@4ax.com>,  Stu-R <st…@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > You may have to work with your audiologist to get the > compression ratios and loudness ranges set the way you like them.  Too > much and my hearing sounds better than the HAs.  Too little and the > loud sounds are intolerable.

My audiologist mentioned "compression". She looked at me like I should know what she was talking about. I didn’t say anything, because I thought of all the times I’d read the word in this group. Now, I’m wondering what it means in relation to HAs. I know what compression is in terms of network data transfer and digital video. But when I think of those definitions in terms of sound, compression seems like something a HOH person would want to avoid. Can someone set me straight here?

Response:

In Australia you would see a GP and get a referral to a hearing specialist. He would do an audiogram and other things. The likely outcome, as others in the thread suggest, is diagnosis of high frequency loss (dead air cells – the most common form of hearing loss) and referral to an audiologist for further diagnosis and fitting with hearing aids. But the process described may throw up other problems leading to a different solution. One warning: I had the misfortune to be referred to a hearing specialist who was sceptical about hearing aids. Partly because of this, and partly because of the bad reputation of the hearing appliance industry for overprescribing, I delayed getting hearing aids for a decade or so. This was a serious mistake.

Response:

On Sat, 22 May 2004 22:40:36 +0100 Peter Cooper <x…@boog.co.uk> said… > Does this sound characteristic of some form of ‘hearing loss’? Or should I > be looking at other psychological / medical factors? Or, simply, is this > just how some of us work? I have tried Googling but to no avail, and it > seems too minor to see a specialist about, as I’m not the type to spend too > long in noisy places anyway But any ideas would be most appreciated!

Your .co.uk address in the header indicates you’re from the UK. Sadly this ng is dominated by those from the US who assume your only option is to seek out the services and huge expenses of private medical practice. I would suggest read up first from a wealth of information provided on the UK-based RNID web site: http://www.rnid.org.uk/html/factsheets/factsheets.asp Next see your GP who may or may not be convinced at first that you have hearing problems to refer you to an ENT department at a local hospital. If he or she isn’t convinced, you may find you get a quicker answer from a nearby audiologist from the private sector who initially ought not to charge you for a hearing test. If the results of that show some evidence, I would then suggest go back to the GP, armed with some more figures and take it from there. Good luck. — Phil Richards London, N4

Response:

What you consider to be "background" noise in a club may be so loud that no pair of ears would be able to understand someone shouting directly into them.  I’ve been in such situations once or twice.  And I can only recommend that, if the noise level is that high, that you exit as fast as your legs can carry you.  I flew with the US Air Force for 20 years during which I never encountered the destructive sound levels of some clubs.  But after I retired, I was invited to a few clubs with noise levels so loud that a person shouting at me from only 12-18 inches away was barely understandable.  My new hearing aids are wonderful.  They limit shouts, loud noises, and mercifully the sound levels of angry screaming children in public places.  Ain’t technology grand. On Sat, 22 May 2004 22:40:36 +0100, "Peter Cooper" <x…@boog.co.uk> wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Hi, >From what I can make out, this isn’t the usual sort of topic that comes up >here, but this is the group closest to the field of my query, so if you can >think of anywhere better I should go, I’m all ears (pun respectfully >intended). >I generally have normal hearing faculties. I can hear noises from a >distance, I can pick out and recognise music coming from a distance while in >a hubbub of noise. When it comes to music, I seem to have far better than >average hearing. (This may be significant in what I’m to say next.) >However, I’m quite useless when it comes to speech. If there are no other >major noises, and the person speaks clearly, I can usually hear what they’re >saying perfectly. But if I’m in a club, bar, etc, and someone even shouts in >my ear over the background din, I still find it almost impossible to >comprehend them. This doesn’t strike me as a problem of concentration, since >if someone’s shouting in my ear, I’m definitely concentrating! >Does this sound characteristic of some form of ‘hearing loss’? Or should I >be looking at other psychological / medical factors? Or, simply, is this >just how some of us work? I have tried Googling but to no avail, and it >seems too minor to see a specialist about, as I’m not the type to spend too >long in noisy places anyway But any ideas would be most appreciated! >Cheers, >Pete

Response:

Yes.  Just got a pair of Siemens Triano 3 BTEs.  They have both digital noise processing,  and variable compression in four groups of four bands each (total of 16 bands.  The noise limiting/compression programs seem to be very effective.  The BTE Triano 3 is the only one with three microphones and a cardioid pattern that automatically (in automatic mode) aligns the null in the pattern toward the noise source.  The three microphone array has a front-back ratio of 7db.  I wouldn’t recommend any hearing aid for shooting.  There are, however, several brands/models of shooting hearing protection devices that promise the most effectiveness.  The best of these combine a whole ear cover, like those used by airport ground crews, with an electronic hearing device inside the headphone type ear cover.  The outside cover is essential to control bone-conducted impulse noise from the gun’s discharge.  No regular hearing aid style device can do this. On Sun, 23 May 2004 15:58:07 -0400, "R Benner" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<bennerBO…@personainternet.com> wrote: >Stu, might I ask what kind of HA’s you have? >I work in noisy environments, hence the hearing loss,  and I am considering >asking for a program with some kind of hard limiting as well as some >attenuation. I don’t have my Divas yet. Sort of a combination hearing aid >and electronic shooters ear protection gizmo. >Any thoughts? >"Stu-R" <st…@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message >news:2lr1b05s0vj4bfkese7ipd0j596gkq5i7j@4ax.com… >> What you consider to be "background" noise in a club may be so loud >> that no pair of ears would be able to understand someone shouting >> directly into them.  I’ve been in such situations once or twice.  And >> I can only recommend that, if the noise level is that high, that you >> exit as fast as your legs can carry you.  I flew with the US Air Force >> for 20 years during which I never encountered the destructive sound >> levels of some clubs.  But after I retired, I was invited to a few >> clubs with noise levels so loud that a person shouting at me from only >> 12-18 inches away was barely understandable.  My new hearing aids are >> wonderful.  They limit shouts, loud noises, and mercifully the sound >> levels of angry screaming children in public places.  Ain’t technology >> grand. >> On Sat, 22 May 2004 22:40:36 +0100, "Peter Cooper" <x…@boog.co.uk> >> wrote: >> >Hi, >> >From what I can make out, this isn’t the usual sort of topic that comes >up >> >here, but this is the group closest to the field of my query, so if you >can >> >think of anywhere better I should go, I’m all ears (pun respectfully >> >intended). >> >I generally have normal hearing faculties. I can hear noises from a >> >distance, I can pick out and recognise music coming from a distance while >in >> >a hubbub of noise. When it comes to music, I seem to have far better than >> >average hearing. (This may be significant in what I’m to say next.) >> >However, I’m quite useless when it comes to speech. If there are no other >> >major noises, and the person speaks clearly, I can usually hear what >they’re >> >saying perfectly. But if I’m in a club, bar, etc, and someone even shouts >in >> >my ear over the background din, I still find it almost impossible to >> >comprehend them. This doesn’t strike me as a problem of concentration, >since >> >if someone’s shouting in my ear, I’m definitely concentrating! >> >Does this sound characteristic of some form of ‘hearing loss’? Or should >I >> >be looking at other psychological / medical factors? Or, simply, is this >> >just how some of us work? I have tried Googling but to no avail, and it >> >seems too minor to see a specialist about, as I’m not the type to spend >too >> >long in noisy places anyway But any ideas would be most appreciated! >> >Cheers, >> >Pete

Response:

On Sun, 23 May 2004 18:44:40 GMT, Stu-R <st…@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

(snip) >My new hearing aids are >wonderful.  They limit shouts, loud noises, and mercifully the sound >levels of angry screaming children in public places.  Ain’t technology >grand.

Screaming children in public places are excruciatingly annoying with my HAs (Phonak Claros).  Which HAs have you got?  Anything special about the particular program on those HAs that you know of?  Thanks.

Response:

Stu, might I ask what kind of HA’s you have? I work in noisy environments, hence the hearing loss,  and I am considering asking for a program with some kind of hard limiting as well as some attenuation. I don’t have my Divas yet. Sort of a combination hearing aid and electronic shooters ear protection gizmo. Any thoughts? "Stu-R" <st…@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message

news:2lr1b05s0vj4bfkese7ipd0j596gkq5i7j@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> What you consider to be "background" noise in a club may be so loud > that no pair of ears would be able to understand someone shouting > directly into them.  I’ve been in such situations once or twice.  And > I can only recommend that, if the noise level is that high, that you > exit as fast as your legs can carry you.  I flew with the US Air Force > for 20 years during which I never encountered the destructive sound > levels of some clubs.  But after I retired, I was invited to a few > clubs with noise levels so loud that a person shouting at me from only > 12-18 inches away was barely understandable.  My new hearing aids are > wonderful.  They limit shouts, loud noises, and mercifully the sound > levels of angry screaming children in public places.  Ain’t technology > grand. > On Sat, 22 May 2004 22:40:36 +0100, "Peter Cooper" <x…@boog.co.uk> > wrote: > >Hi, > >From what I can make out, this isn’t the usual sort of topic that comes up > >here, but this is the group closest to the field of my query, so if you can > >think of anywhere better I should go, I’m all ears (pun respectfully > >intended). > >I generally have normal hearing faculties. I can hear noises from a > >distance, I can pick out and recognise music coming from a distance while in > >a hubbub of noise. When it comes to music, I seem to have far better than > >average hearing. (This may be significant in what I’m to say next.) > >However, I’m quite useless when it comes to speech. If there are no other > >major noises, and the person speaks clearly, I can usually hear what they’re > >saying perfectly. But if I’m in a club, bar, etc, and someone even shouts in > >my ear over the background din, I still find it almost impossible to > >comprehend them. This doesn’t strike me as a problem of concentration, since > >if someone’s shouting in my ear, I’m definitely concentrating! > >Does this sound characteristic of some form of ‘hearing loss’? Or should I > >be looking at other psychological / medical factors? Or, simply, is this > >just how some of us work? I have tried Googling but to no avail, and it > >seems too minor to see a specialist about, as I’m not the type to spend too > >long in noisy places anyway But any ideas would be most appreciated! > >Cheers, > >Pete

Response:

On Sat, 22 May 2004 22:40:36 +0100, "Peter Cooper" <x…@boog.co.uk> wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Hi, >From what I can make out, this isn’t the usual sort of topic that comes up >here, but this is the group closest to the field of my query, so if you can >think of anywhere better I should go, I’m all ears (pun respectfully >intended). >I generally have normal hearing faculties. I can hear noises from a >distance, I can pick out and recognise music coming from a distance while in >a hubbub of noise. When it comes to music, I seem to have far better than >average hearing. (This may be significant in what I’m to say next.) >However, I’m quite useless when it comes to speech. If there are no other >major noises, and the person speaks clearly, I can usually hear what they’re >saying perfectly. But if I’m in a club, bar, etc, and someone even shouts in >my ear over the background din, I still find it almost impossible to >comprehend them. This doesn’t strike me as a problem of concentration, since >if someone’s shouting in my ear, I’m definitely concentrating! >Does this sound characteristic of some form of ‘hearing loss’? Or should I >be looking at other psychological / medical factors? Or, simply, is this >just how some of us work? I have tried Googling but to no avail, and it >seems too minor to see a specialist about, as I’m not the type to spend too >long in noisy places anyway But any ideas would be most appreciated! >Cheers, >Pete

You might have poor speech discrimination which doesn’t have to be connected to the volume of the sound.  I have profound hearing loss but it can be amplified to the point that frequencies for speech can be "heard" but I still don’t understand speech without lipreading.  In my case it is considered "deaf" because I can only understand 15% of what is spoken even with a hearing aid.  With lipreading, that figure goes up to 80%. In my case, it is a processing problem — some sort of breakdown between the sound coming in and the brain interpreting it.  It has been recommended that I try a cochlear implant which I probably will if it reaches the point where I cannot interpret speech well enough even with the lipreading.  A proper evaluation of your situation by a neurotologist may give you more information to help decide if there is something that can help. Terri

Response:

You, like most of the hearing loss population probably have a high frequency loss.  When you are listening to music, you either have the ability to turn the volume up or you simply may not know what you are missing.   Speech is more complicated, and with the addition of background noise HF hearing loss becomes more apparent. Can you hearing the ticking on your watch? All  of this is speculation, go see an audiologist. If everything is really normal you could look into CAPD (central audiotory processing disorder) and although it is a helpful label, it does not have a "cure" In article <10b0b3m3jl7a…@corp.supernews.com>, bennerBO…@personainternet.com says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> You are in the right place, I will refrain from offering advice, I am a > newbie, there are people here who are eminently qualified to offer advice, > stick around for a while. I have learned a great deal in the few months that > I have been parsing this newsgroup. > "Peter Cooper" <x…@boog.co.uk> wrote in message > news:2halpgFarkssU1@uni-berlin.de… > > Hi, > > From what I can make out, this isn’t the usual sort of topic that comes up > > here, but this is the group closest to the field of my query, so if you > can > > think of anywhere better I should go, I’m all ears (pun respectfully > > intended). > > I generally have normal hearing faculties. I can hear noises from a > > distance, I can pick out and recognise music coming from a distance while > in > > a hubbub of noise. When it comes to music, I seem to have far better than > > average hearing. (This may be significant in what I’m to say next.) > > However, I’m quite useless when it comes to speech. If there are no other > > major noises, and the person speaks clearly, I can usually hear what > they’re > > saying perfectly. But if I’m in a club, bar, etc, and someone even shouts > in > > my ear over the background din, I still find it almost impossible to > > comprehend them. This doesn’t strike me as a problem of concentration, > since > > if someone’s shouting in my ear, I’m definitely concentrating! > > Does this sound characteristic of some form of ‘hearing loss’? Or should I > > be looking at other psychological / medical factors? Or, simply, is this > > just how some of us work? I have tried Googling but to no avail, and it > > seems too minor to see a specialist about, as I’m not the type to spend > too > > long in noisy places anyway But any ideas would be most appreciated! > > Cheers, > > Pete

Response:

I Little Disappointed

Question:

richar…@webtv.net wrote in message <news:18991-40AC8740-155@storefull-3232.bay.webtv.net>… > There is a lot of discussion in this group about hearing aids and > related devices, which I’ve found very helpful, but as a person with > "late in life" hearing loss I am a little disappointed that there isn’t > hardly any discussion about the social and economic aspect of hearing > loss.  Obviously this has been my biggest problem in dealing with > hearing loss.  Just an observation.

Hi there, There have just been a lot of recent posts about the technology and hearing aid developments. However, it isn’t always this way. You should find there are many people on this group who will have lots to say about the social and economic aspects of hearing loss. A good links pages is below: http://www.shhh.org/html/links.html Regards Graham

Response:

richar…@webtv.net wrote in news:18991-40AC8740-155@storefull-3232.bay.webtv.net: > There is a lot of discussion in this group about hearing aids and > related devices, which I’ve found very helpful, but as a person > with "late in life" hearing loss I am a little disappointed that > there isn’t hardly any discussion about the social and economic > aspect of hearing loss.  Obviously this has been my biggest > problem in dealing with hearing loss.  Just an observation.

Feel free to start one, but don’t expect others to do it. best regards Peter

Response:

If you had searched the group you would have found hundreds of posts and dozens of long threads exploring and debating the socialogical and economic aspects of hearing loss. If you post some thoughts on these sorts of topic others will respond – as they usually have in the past. But searches on these topics (or any other hearing-related topic) will reveal what a valuable repositary of information and views this group is. I have been with the group for a decade or so and its character changes slowly over time. But the changes are not in one direction. They simply reflect the pattern of posts which generate threads. Something else which changes is the body of active members. Some who were once active have disappeared. Every week new people pop up – a few of whom become regulars – for a time. The body of knowledge held in this group owes its existence to  people asking questions and people expressing views. Views expressed reflect both the experience of the hearing-impaired and the knowledge of people who are qualified and experienced in dealing with hearing problems. The latter, like the former, come and go but there always seem to be a number of professionals who monitor the group and contribute.

Response:

There is a lot of discussion in this group about hearing aids and related devices, which I’ve found very helpful, but as a person with "late in life" hearing loss I am a little disappointed that there isn’t hardly any discussion about the social and economic aspect of hearing loss.  Obviously this has been my biggest problem in dealing with hearing loss.  Just an observation.

Response:

Perhaps there has not been much discussion here on this newsgroup, but there are other resources online. I will take a moment to look through my collection of links…. http://www.shhh.org/ http://www.nidcd.nih.gov/index.asp http://www.earinfo.com/ http://www.hear-it.org/index.dsp – excellent. http://www.earinfosite.org/ http://www.digital-recordings.com/ – useful stuff. I am sure there is a lot more available. Many of the websites for the hearing aid manufacturers also have extensive information relevant to your topic. Here are a few links… http://www.gnresound.com http://www.widex.com http://www.phonak.com/index http://www.phonak.com/consumer/hearing/hearinglossdemo.htm – very useful link for demonstrating hearing loss. http://www.widexusa.com/ http://www.siemens-hearing.com/consumer/index.aspx http://www.audilux.com/ http://www.oticon.com http://www.sonici.com/indexmap.php http://www.oticon.com/eprise/main/Oticon/com/_index I am in the process of getting my first set of hearing aids, (Widex Senso Diva), my hearing loss is due to 35+ years of industrial noise exposure. I submitted a claim for hearing loss in January. While the WSIB was processing my claim, I have been doing a lot of reading and asking questions related to hearing loss. I have come to understand that my diminished hearing has had a much greater impact on my life than I had expected. While I do not expect my hearing to become ‘normal’ with the hearing aids, I fully expect considerable improvement. I look forward to being able to hear the birds more clearly, also the voices of little children. I would encourage you to do your own research, and to ask questions. I have found the folks here to be extremely helpful, with only one or two exceptions. Just ignore the flies and they will go away. Rudy Benner <richar…@webtv.net> wrote in message

news:18991-40AC8740-155@storefull-3232.bay.webtv.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> There is a lot of discussion in this group about hearing aids and > related devices, which I’ve found very helpful, but as a person with > "late in life" hearing loss I am a little disappointed that there isn’t > hardly any discussion about the social and economic aspect of hearing > loss.  Obviously this has been my biggest problem in dealing with > hearing loss.  Just an observation.

Response:

Well fuck, Part II

Question:

I’m with Pat, Jean, et al. on this – give them the chance, if you can and if you can bear to.  People can be surprising creatures, & I thikn I’d mind receiving a whack of loot along with words to the effect, "This is your inheritance: your mother’s kicked the bucket."

yes, i would too. i mean, gawd, the money would be great.  but i’d miss the chance for a wrapup. azure

Response:

There is snow on the trees, all the way out to the branch tips.  The underside of the branches dark, he southwest trunks bold dark lines against the milky gray sky.  The snow came again last night, no sound, soft and cold.  It has been a long winter of bone wrenching cold, ice and white. Yet, the big silver maple next to the door is the herald of that seemingly impossibility, warmth, green canopies, bird song, the crack of a bat hitting a ball and the cheer and jeers of the kids playing their pick up game.  At the end of the branches, high above, the snow is tinged in a deep red.  The maple bud with its spiky red and yellow tips are ready to burst as the sap, flowing for the last weeks, has made it to the ends of the tree bringing the cycle of renewal. Shar,  I am so sorry to hear that the disease has strengthened but I am in awe of your strength and determination to move forward out of the winter of treatment into acceptance and indeed enjoyment of the possibilities and time ahead.  My hope is that when it is my time, and we all will have our "time", that I can meet it with the courage and grace that you have. Please be here as long as you can and don’t hesitate to let us know if you need some companionship along the way. Best. jeeco

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Since October when suspicious spots on the right lung were found, I underwent more surgery for lung resection as the prelimary biopsy was positive.  The cancer has metastasized to lungs.  I found the recommended chemo cocktail was entirely too much for me and, since more spots keep popping up, decided to stop it a few weeks ago.  One unexpected (for me) side effect of the chemo was sudden hearing loss in one ear, total, permanent hearing loss.  As I love hearing people, music, nature, I don’t care to take a risk with my right ear!  I’ve read the prognosis of life expectency with and without chemo and would prefer a shorter, fun-filled life than a highly probable slow, miserable 5-yr death sentence. I’m comfortable with my decision.  My energy’s been zapped by the chemo, but hopefully that will return soon as I have a lot of things I want to do.  My main project for right now is setting up things for my kids.  I’ve managed to invest and stash away a substantial inheritance for them, plus a good life insurance policy.  (I really didn’t expect to live *this* long!:)) That was all I ever really wanted to do anyway . . . make sure they’re comfortable in life.  I’m sure they’ll need it to pay for the therapy for all they’ve been through!  I’ve contacted a lawyer to work with the state to make sure they the inheritance.  I’m not asking that I be allowed into their lives; I seriously doubt that would be a good move for them, although I’d love to see and hug them one more time.  (Not that they would want that, and I would be stunned if they did!) I’m in the process of selling my practice as I can’t work even half the hours I used to.  When my energy returns (at least enough where I don’t have to lie down every few hours), I plan to travel.  Places to go, things to see. I still will and do read here. (Where is everybody lately?  Well, you know .  . not *every*body, but every other body.)   I regret that I’m usually too tired to respond.  Speaking of which . . . later. Shar

– For more information about this NNTP posting service, contact: If you want an anonymous account, visit our sign-up page: https://asarian-host.net/cgi-bin/signup.cgi

Response:

i’ve been wanting to respond to this for a long time, Shar, but waited until i was sure i would not get all maudlin, and/or blow sunshine up your ass.  i don’t think you’d need, like, or appreciate either one. i like a lot of the things Jean says here, and i’d like to echo her, and elaborate.

Since October when suspicious spots on the right lung were found, I underwent more surgery for lung resection as the prelimary biopsy was positive.  The cancer has metastasized to lungs.  I found the recommended chemo cocktail was entirely too much for me and, since more spots keep popping up, decided to stop it a few weeks ago.  One unexpected (for me) side effect of the chemo was sudden hearing loss in one ear, total, permanent hearing loss.  As I love hearing people, music, nature, I don’t care to take a risk with my right ear!

good for you. I’ve read the prognosis of life expectency with and without chemo and would prefer a shorter, fun-filled life than a highly probable slow, miserable 5-yr death sentence. I’d do the same, Shar.

me too. I’m comfortable with my decision.  My energy’s been zapped by the chemo, but hopefully that will return soon as I have a lot of things I want to do.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My main project for right now is setting up things for my kids. I’ve managed to invest and stash away a substantial inheritance for them, plus a good life insurance policy.  [...] That was all I ever really wanted to do anyway . . . make sure they’re comfortable in life.  [...] I’ve contacted a lawyer to work with the state to make sure they the inheritance.  I’m not asking that I be allowed into their lives; I seriously doubt that would be a good move for them, although I’d love to see and hug them one more time.  (Not that they would want that, and I would be stunned if they did!) You never know – but if that’s really the case, you could write them each a letter…or maybe keep a journal with your thoughts about them and for them…maybe even do one for each.  Print it up at Kinkos and have the lawyer pass it along after you go whevever it is you’re going.

i was having thoughts along that line, too. furthermore … are you really sure that they would, uniformly, not want a chance to meet with you?  the thought occurred to me that, since you get three or four people together, you would probably have three or four sets of opinions … not all of the kids might be of the same mind.  perhaps there is a way to put the idea to them, and leave it up to them? of course, it depends on how old they are.  i don’t know the situation.  and like i said, i don’t want to blow sunshine up your ass.  but if at least one of them was open to it … I’m in the process of selling my practice as I can’t work even half the hours I used to.  When my energy returns (at least enough where I don’t have to lie down every few hours), I plan to travel.  Places to go, things to see. I still will and do read here. (Where is everybody lately?  Well, you know . . . not *every*body, but every other body.)

i think the combination of flame wars, sock puppets, and other deceptions and games have taken their toll.  it’s a shame, really.  i think the people are still lurking in the wings.  often people retreat to safer spots, but those spots of safety aren’t really safe, either. I regret that I’m usually too tired to respond.  Speaking of which . . . later. I think if I could choose a death it would be one that gave me a bit of time for fun, the chance to set some things up for my kids, etc. I never understood people who said they wanted to just die in their sleep. Well, maybe at 90 it’d be okay, but otherwise, no way.  The process part of dying is kind of scary but I’ve been reading alt.support. cancer since your dx – I kind of got hooked on it for some reason – and many of the deaths that have occurred in the two years that I’ve been reading there sound almost gentle. Well fuck, you’re too young to die though, and that really sucks (understatement),

i think this is a very un-maudlin way of saying what i feel, too. but you’ve really made something of yourself, against all odds.  You should be proud of yerself, I hope you are.  There are lots of wasted, stupid lives.  You saved your kids’ lives, you worked hard, you "created".

YES.  you won a victory over your abusers.  a victory that is total.  and no one can take that away from you. I do believe that our children are our future, our immortality.  Their eyes and ears and minds will continue to take in the world, so that means you will too.  In a way. Have fun.  Where are you going to travel to?  Me, I’ve always wanted to do a European tour.  Jamaica sounds fun too though.

i’d like to see Ireland. azure

Response:

Since October when suspicious spots on the right lung were found, I underwent more surgery for lung resection as the prelimary biopsy was positive.  The cancer has metastasized to lungs.  I found the recommended chemo cocktail was entirely too much for me and, since more spots keep popping up, decided to stop it a few weeks ago.  One unexpected (for me) side effect of the chemo was sudden hearing loss in one ear, total, permanent hearing loss.  As I love hearing people, music, nature, I don’t care to take a risk with my right ear!  I’ve read the prognosis of life expectency with and without chemo and would prefer a shorter, fun-filled life than a highly probable slow, miserable 5-yr death sentence.

Gawd, Shardik.  Not that we didn’t have warning, but I’m sorry to read this.  Equally, I’m glad (and totally unsurprised) that you haven’t let yourself be pushed into prolonging misery, or risking the other ear. I’m comfortable with my decision.  My energy’s been zapped by the chemo, but hopefully that will return soon as I have a lot of things I want to do.  My main project for right now is setting up things for my kids.  I’ve managed to invest and stash away a substantial inheritance for them, plus a good life insurance policy.  (I really didn’t expect to live *this* long!:)) That was all I ever really wanted to do anyway . . . make sure they’re comfortable in life.  

There are some cool people hereabouts…  It’s no small achievement. I’m sure they’ll need it to pay for the therapy for all they’ve been through!  I’ve contacted a lawyer to work with the state to make sure they the inheritance.  I’m not asking that I be allowed into their lives; I seriously doubt that would be a good move for them, although I’d love to see and hug them one more time.  (Not that they would want that, and I would be stunned if they did!)

I’m with Pat, Jean, et al. on this – give them the chance, if you can and if you can bear to.  People can be surprising creatures, & I thikn I’d mind receiving a whack of loot along with words to the effect, "This is your inheritance: your mother’s kicked the bucket." I’m in the process of selling my practice as I can’t work even half the hours I used to.  When my energy returns (at least enough where I don’t have to lie down every few hours), I plan to travel.  Places to go, things to see.

Great move.  Make the most of your last days – I hope that they turn out to be bloody good ones.  You’ve earned that, and some. Baba Yaga I still will and do read here. (Where is everybody lately?  Well, you know . . . not *every*body, but every other body.)   I regret that I’m usually too tired to respond.  Speaking of which . . . later. Shar

– The path to wisdom does, in fact, begin with a single step.  Where people go wrong is in ignoring all the thousands of other steps that come after it.  They make the single step of deciding to become one with the universe, and for some reason forget to take the logical next step of living for seventy years on a mountain and a daily bowl of rice and yak-butter tea.  While evidence says that the road to Hell is paved with good intentions, they’re probably all on first steps.  - Terry Pratchett

Response:

Since October when suspicious spots on the right lung were found, I underwent more surgery for lung resection as the prelimary biopsy was positive.  The cancer has metastasized to lungs.  I found the recommended chemo cocktail was entirely too much for me and, since more spots keep popping up, decided to stop it a few weeks ago.  One unexpected (for me) side effect of the chemo was sudden hearing loss in one ear, total, permanent hearing loss.  As I love hearing people, music, nature, I don’t care to take a risk with my right ear!  I’ve read the prognosis of life expectency with and without chemo and would prefer a shorter, fun-filled life than a highly probable slow, miserable 5-yr death sentence. I’m comfortable with my decision.  My energy’s been zapped by the chemo, but hopefully that will return soon as I have a lot of things I want to do.  My main project for right now is setting up things for my kids.  I’ve managed to invest and stash away a substantial inheritance for them, plus a good life insurance policy.  (I really didn’t expect to live *this* long!:)) That was all I ever really wanted to do anyway . . . make sure they’re comfortable in life.  I’m sure they’ll need it to pay for the therapy for all they’ve been through!  I’ve contacted a lawyer to work with the state to make sure they the inheritance.  I’m not asking that I be allowed into their lives; I seriously doubt that would be a good move for them, although I’d love to see and hug them one more time.  (Not that they would want that, and I would be stunned if they did!) I’m in the process of selling my practice as I can’t work even half the hours I used to.  When my energy returns (at least enough where I don’t have to lie down every few hours), I plan to travel.  Places to go, things to see. I still will and do read here. (Where is everybody lately?  Well, you know . . . not *every*body, but every other body.)   I regret that I’m usually too tired to respond.  Speaking of which . . . later. Shar

Response:

ahh Shar…. I don’t know what to say…. One of the things I told my grandma when she had her lung cancer and was considering treatments like Chemo, I told her that the chemo would make her sick, tired, might make her weak, make her bones more brittle than they already were…. When she decided to do the chemo, I supported her…. When she decided to stop the chemo, I supported her and I even supported her when she went onto and off of the Radiation therapy….. I don’t know the story about you and your kids…. I’m pretty certain though that they’d love to hug their mom again. There’s a lot of "unfinished business" from what I’m reading in your posts…. I wish you lots of luck with your kids, I am here, reading…. Hang in there… ((((((((((((((((((((((Shar)))))))))))))))))))))) — "Many have forgotten this truth, but you must not forget it. You remain responsible, forever, for what you have tamed." ~Antoine de Saint-Exupery

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Since October when suspicious spots on the right lung were found, I underwent more surgery for lung resection as the prelimary biopsy was positive.  The cancer has metastasized to lungs.  I found the recommended chemo cocktail was entirely too much for me and, since more spots keep popping up, decided to stop it a few weeks ago.  One unexpected (for me) side effect of the chemo was sudden hearing loss in one ear, total, permanent hearing loss.  As I love hearing people, music, nature, I don’t care to take a risk with my right ear!  I’ve read the prognosis of life expectency with and without chemo and would prefer a shorter, fun-filled life than a highly probable slow, miserable 5-yr death sentence. I’m comfortable with my decision.  My energy’s been zapped by the chemo, but hopefully that will return soon as I have a lot of things I want to do. My main project for right now is setting up things for my kids.  I’ve managed to invest and stash away a substantial inheritance for them, plus a good life insurance policy.  (I really didn’t expect to live *this* long!:)) That was all I ever really wanted to do anyway . . . make sure they’re comfortable in life.  I’m sure they’ll need it to pay for the therapy for all they’ve been through!  I’ve contacted a lawyer to work with the state to make sure they the inheritance.  I’m not asking that I be allowed into their lives; I seriously doubt that would be a good move for them, although I’d love to see and hug them one more time.  (Not that they would want that, and I would be stunned if they did!) I’m in the process of selling my practice as I can’t work even half the hours I used to.  When my energy returns (at least enough where I don’t have to lie down every few hours), I plan to travel.  Places to go, things to see. I still will and do read here. (Where is everybody lately?  Well, you know . . . not *every*body, but every other body.)   I regret that I’m usually too tired to respond.  Speaking of which . . . later. Shar

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Since October when suspicious spots on the right lung were found, I underwent more surgery for lung resection as the prelimary biopsy was positive.  The cancer has metastasized to lungs.  I found the recommended chemo cocktail was entirely too much for me and, since more spots keep popping up, decided to stop it a few weeks ago.  One unexpected (for me) side effect of the chemo was sudden hearing loss in one ear, total, permanent hearing loss.  As I love hearing people, music, nature, I don’t care to take a risk with my right ear!  I’ve read the prognosis of life expectency with and without chemo and would prefer a shorter, fun-filled life than a highly probable slow, miserable 5-yr death sentence. I’m comfortable with my decision.  My energy’s been zapped by the chemo, but hopefully that will return soon as I have a lot of things I want to do.  My main project for right now is setting up things for my kids.  I’ve managed to invest and stash away a substantial inheritance for them, plus a good life insurance policy.  (I really didn’t expect to live *this* long!:)) That was all I ever really wanted to do anyway . . . make sure they’re comfortable in life.  I’m sure they’ll need it to pay for the therapy for all they’ve been through!  I’ve contacted a lawyer to work with the state to make sure they the inheritance.  I’m not asking that I be allowed into their lives; I seriously doubt that would be a good move for them, although I’d love to see and hug them one more time.  (Not that they would want that, and I would be stunned if they did!)

Why don’t you give them and yourself a chance?  They could be wanting to see you as much as you want to see them and also afraid to take that one step. I’m in the process of selling my practice as I can’t work even half the hours I used to.  When my energy returns (at least enough where I don’t have to lie down every few hours), I plan to travel.  Places to go, things to see. I still will and do read here. (Where is everybody lately?  Well, you know . . . not *every*body, but every other body.)   I regret that I’m usually too tired to respond.  Speaking of which . . . later. Shar

Wish you the best.. as best can be,

Response:

Pat is absolutely right, Shar.  Check the legalities out, kiddo, and I’ll cross fingers, toes, legs and eyes for you. ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((( Shar )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Since October when suspicious spots on the right lung were found, I underwent more surgery for lung resection as the prelimary biopsy was positive.  The cancer has metastasized to lungs.  I found the recommended chemo cocktail was entirely too much for me and, since more spots keep popping up, decided to stop it a few weeks ago.  One unexpected (for me) side effect of the chemo was sudden hearing loss in one ear, total, permanent hearing loss.  As I love hearing people, music, nature, I don’t care to take a risk with my right ear!  I’ve read the prognosis of life expectency with and without chemo and would prefer a shorter, fun-filled life than a highly probable slow, miserable 5-yr death sentence. I’m comfortable with my decision.  My energy’s been zapped by the chemo, but hopefully that will return soon as I have a lot of things I want to do.  My main project for right now is setting up things for my kids.  I’ve managed to invest and stash away a substantial inheritance for them, plus a good life insurance policy.  (I really didn’t expect to live *this* long!:)) That was all I ever really wanted to do anyway . . . make sure they’re comfortable in life.  I’m sure they’ll need it to pay for the therapy for all they’ve been through!  I’ve contacted a lawyer to work with the state to make sure they the inheritance.  I’m not asking that I be allowed into their lives; I seriously doubt that would be a good move for them, although I’d love to see and hug them one more time.  (Not that they would want that, and I would be stunned if they did!) Why don’t you give them and yourself a chance?  They could be wanting to see you as much as you want to see them and also afraid to take that one step. I’m in the process of selling my practice as I can’t work even half the hours I used to.  When my energy returns (at least enough where I don’t have to lie down every few hours), I plan to travel.  Places to go, things to see. I still will and do read here. (Where is everybody lately?  Well, you know . . . not *every*body, but every other body.)   I regret that I’m usually too tired to respond.  Speaking of which . . . later. Shar Wish you the best.. as best can be,

Response:

Since October when suspicious spots on the right lung were found, I underwent more surgery for lung resection as the prelimary biopsy was positive.  The cancer has metastasized to lungs.  I found the recommended chemo cocktail was entirely too much for me and, since more spots keep popping up, decided to stop it a few weeks ago.  One unexpected (for me) side effect of the chemo was sudden hearing loss in one ear, total, permanent hearing loss.  As I love hearing people, music, nature, I don’t care to take a risk with my right ear!  I’ve read the prognosis of life expectency with and without chemo and would prefer a shorter, fun-filled life than a highly probable slow, miserable 5-yr death sentence.

I’d do the same, Shar. I’m comfortable with my decision.  My energy’s been zapped by the chemo, but hopefully that will return soon as I have a lot of things I want to do.  My main project for right now is setting up things for my kids.  I’ve managed to invest and stash away a substantial inheritance for them, plus a good life insurance policy.  (I really didn’t expect to live *this*

long!:)) Oh wow, that’s absolutely great. That was all I ever really wanted to do anyway . . . make sure they’re comfortable in life.  I’m sure they’ll need it to pay for the therapy for all they’ve been through!  I’ve contacted a lawyer to work with the state to make sure they the inheritance.  I’m not asking that I be allowed into their lives; I seriously doubt that would be a good move for them, although I’d love to see and hug them one more time.  (Not that they would want that, and I would be stunned if they did!)

You never know – but if that’s really the case, you could write them each a letter…or maybe keep a journal with your thoughts about them and for them…maybe even do one for each.  Print it up at Kinkos and have the lawyer pass it along after you go whevever it is you’re going. I’m in the process of selling my practice as I can’t work even half the hours I used to.  When my energy returns (at least enough where I don’t have to lie down every few hours), I plan to travel.  Places to go, things to see. I still will and do read here. (Where is everybody lately?  Well, you know . . . not *every*body, but every other body.)   I regret that I’m usually too tired to respond.  Speaking of which . . . later.

I think if I could choose a death it would be one that gave me a bit of time for fun, the chance to set some things up for my kids, etc.  I never understood people who said they wanted to just die in their sleep. Well, maybe at 90 it’d be okay, but otherwise, no way.  The process part of dying is kind of scary but I’ve been reading alt.support.cancer since your dx – I kind of got hooked on it for some reason – and many of the deaths that have occurred in the two years that I’ve been reading there sound almost gentle. Well fuck, you’re too young to die though, and that really sucks (understatement), but you’ve really made something of yourself, against all odds.  You should be proud of yerself, I hope you are.  There are lots of wasted, stupid lives.  You saved your kids’ lives, you worked hard, you "created". I do believe that our children are our future, our immortality.  Their eyes and ears and minds will continue to take in the world, so that means you will too.  In a way. Have fun.  Where are you going to travel to?  Me, I’ve always wanted to do a European tour.  Jamaica sounds fun too though. Jean – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Shar

Response:

says… ahh Shar…. I don’t know what to say….

I don’t either, except to say that Susan and I will keep you in our thoughts, and hope for the best for you. We each of us only have the time we’ve got, and none of us know how long that is – we can only live today, and every today we have.   Katherine

Response:

shar, fwiw, i think you’re great.  i thought so before this trouble started, and i think so even more now.  i wish you the best of every moment in whatever time remains. cal

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Since October when suspicious spots on the right lung were found, I underwent more surgery for lung resection as the prelimary biopsy was positive.  The cancer has metastasized to lungs.  I found the recommended chemo cocktail was entirely too much for me and, since more spots keep popping up, decided to stop it a few weeks ago.  One unexpected (for me) side effect of the chemo was sudden hearing loss in one ear, total, permanent hearing loss.  As I love hearing people, music, nature, I don’t care to take a risk with my right ear!  I’ve read the prognosis of life expectency with and without chemo and would prefer a shorter, fun-filled life than a highly probable slow, miserable 5-yr death sentence. I’m comfortable with my decision.  My energy’s been zapped by the chemo, but hopefully that will return soon as I have a lot of things I want to do. My main project for right now is setting up things for my kids.  I’ve managed to invest and stash away a substantial inheritance for them, plus a good life insurance policy.  (I really didn’t expect to live *this* long!:)) That was all I ever really wanted to do anyway . . . make sure they’re comfortable in life.  I’m sure they’ll need it to pay for the therapy for all they’ve been through!  I’ve contacted a lawyer to work with the state to make sure they the inheritance.  I’m not asking that I be allowed into their lives; I seriously doubt that would be a good move for them, although I’d love to see and hug them one more time.  (Not that they would want that, and I would be stunned if they did!) I’m in the process of selling my practice as I can’t work even half the hours I used to.  When my energy returns (at least enough where I don’t have to lie down every few hours), I plan to travel.  Places to go, things to see. I still will and do read here. (Where is everybody lately?  Well, you know . . . not *every*body, but every other body.)   I regret that I’m usually too tired to respond.  Speaking of which . . . later. Shar

Response:

New Songbird over-the-counter digital hearing aid

Question:

Hi all, I recently noticed, on the Songbird website, that they have a new two-band, digtal, disposable aid, the Songbird 400.  One can buy one over-the-counter at the Songbird store in Alexandria, VA, by phone or over the internet for $99.00 a pair. http://www.songbirdhearing.com/aboutHearing.html .  No audiological examination is required.  Operational life of the aids is quoted to be about 400 hours before the battery runs down. This means about 3 months use at 4 hours/day or about one month at 12 hours per day.  The aid is available with only one sound amplification curve.  It won’t fit everyone.  I understand It is tailored to fit the average requirement of a large subset of the population having a mild to moderate age-related hearing loss. Songbird also offers the somewhat more costly Songbird Pro model that is only only available through Audiologists, after a hearing test. This unit is available in various different amplification and high frequency compensation curves to accomodate the needs of those whose hearing is not sufficiently corrected by the Songbird 400. It’s also available, I believe, for several different physical ear canal sizes. I am 79 years old and my sensitivity to the lower frequency sounds (125-250 Hz)is about 5 dB below normal, and according to some home tests using the ‘Audio CD’, my high frequency hearing loss at 3 kHz is about 33 dB.  My main hearing problem occurs when trying to understand small children, people with a foreign accent, as well as soft spoken individuals.  I also can forget about trying to understanding people when in a noisy environment. Until now I have never used a hearing aid.  This Songbird has, so far, corrected my problem with understanding soft-spoken people.  It has also helped with my problem in understanding some of the actors having strong accents on the various PBS British comedy TV shows, as well as understanding small children.  I havn’t tried the aids in a noisy environment yet.  All in all, since the units fit my hearing needs quite well, I am satisfied, especially considering the cost. Best regards, Ben H. Tongue

Response:

The have a 30 day money-back guarantee, but are available in only one color.

Response:

O/T Why is Murray so afraid to revist thresholds

Question:

"Jeff Radom" <jradomdeathtospamm…@nycap.rr.com> skrev i en meddelelse news:3F240D2A.76B74F3@nycap.rr.com… > The level, expressed in db, ABOVE threshold measures the tinnitus. It is simply > taking the level of external sound at which the person begins to hear it, and > the level of external sound that thay perceive as matching the level of > tinnitus. The difference is the level of T. All we really have to work with are > an external sound source, and a person’s perception of it.

Yes and that’s a sloppy way of finding the "T" level but the only way.  It requires that the person has a hearing. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Jeff

Response:

On 27 Jul 2003 08:16:56 +0200, Frog <FrogRemai…@bigfoot.com> wrote: >Murray, >you’ll never get him to take up your challenge – he knows he’d lose

Dear Person waiting for Prince Charming [try Brooce], I have repeatedly laid down the gauntlet to Dr. Grossan. Pathetically, he feels the need for money to be equated with honesty. My offer stands. I’ll not post for 30 days if he can make sense of his own post on thresholds. Martin Aquinas – Civilizations are clashing…will you defend your own or doom your children? "We cannot forget. We cannot forgive … We went through too much. They will have a sentence of their own: Remembrance." Border…Language…Culture….QUICK!

Response:

"Martin" <oh_brother_where_art_t…@yahoo.com> skrev i en meddelelse news:4rp6iv82j3r3bhf1i08e520qpc7ggubusd@4ax.com… > On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 01:35:52 +0200, "Jesper Buch" > <jesperb…@hotmail.com> wrote: > >Is it that Threshold discussion your problem with ENTconsult is about ?? > The toad has insulted me so many times now that I plum can’t recall. > But I think that’s when he went haywire. Don’t waste your time > researching as I don’t care. I think he’s a fool. And that’s all I’m > gonna say about dat.

I bet there is lots of fools around but fortunatly they don’t all post here. You are free to think what ever you want, but thinking that someone is a fool does not entitle one to post anoying and dead end discussions on a tinnitus board. If you have a personally matter with someone then sort it out somewhere else. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Martin Aquinas – Civilizations are clashing…will you defend your own or doom your children? > "We cannot forget. We cannot forgive … We went > through too much. They will have a sentence of their own: > Remembrance." > Border…Language…Culture….QUICK!

Response:

The level, expressed in db, ABOVE threshold measures the tinnitus. It is simply taking the level of external sound at which the person begins to hear it, and the level of external sound that thay perceive as matching the level of tinnitus. The difference is the level of T. All we really have to work with are an external sound source, and a person’s perception of it. Jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Jesper Buch wrote: > "Jeff Radom" <jradomdeathtospamm…@nycap.rr.com> skrev i en meddelelse > news:3F233381.A59C23D5@nycap.rr.com… > > > "Martin" <oh_brother_where_art_t…@yahoo.com> > > > My argument was, if I recall correctly, that someone with a threshold > > > of a higher number [let's use 40] was better off as they had their > > > hearing and it masked the tinnitus. IOW, my argument pointed out that > > > the "professional" needed to rethink his position. > > Is the above from "Martin"? I have him filtered out so I only see his > > contributions to the group when someone responds to him. > > His misunderstanding of the concept of the measurement of tinnitus as a > level > > above threshold has as its root his belief that a higher threshold of > hearing > > means having better hearing. As I understand it, the threshold is the > level of > > external sound at which the person begins to actually hear it. So a person > with > > a higher threshold has less heaing. So if the external sound that matches > two > > individuals’ perceived level of tinnitus is the same, the person with a > lower > > threshold (better hearing) will have a perceived tinnitus level higher > than the > > person with worse hearing (and thus higher threshold). Does Martin require > an > > example as well, or will correcting his assumption be enough for him to > rethink > > his position? > The word Threshold referes to the level of the tinnitus not the hearing.  40 > dB af tinnitus is 40 dB no matter what you hearing threshold is. > > Jeff

Response:

On 26 Jul 2003 22:39:34 GMT, entcons…@aol.comnospam (ENTconsult) wrote: >the answer to that should be quite obvius. >a i don’t give a hoot what Martin wants.

But you do give a hoot that AST is not alt.buy.nasal.from.murray. >>He is a fly in the ointment and beyond >contempt.

You’ve worn the tip of that shovel blunt. I’d offer you a new one, but I see your nose works fine too. >>I should discuss with that piece of … >b. whenever he is challenged he excuses himself

Murray, Murray, Murray, I have made a very, VERY bona fide offer to you. I’m sorry that taking me up on it would necessitate that you admit that you screwed up, IMO. >c. whenever he is challenged he answers by changing the subject or insults.  I >haven’t seen a straight answer from him yet to anyone.

I insult only those who insult me. You, I think you insult yourself quite fine around here. Now, kiss me, you fool. >The reason for asking to put up money is to force him into honest discussion.

Ah, there’s the rub. For Murray to think a man is engaged in an honest discussion, there now must be money at stake. Murray, is money your God? I always judged a man on his soul and integrity, not by the size of his wallet. But I guess you just don’t care what the little people think. If they don’t have money they are willing to wager then they can’t hold an honest discussion or be a success in your world. That’s what you said. I have to have money bet for the discussion to be honest. That logic would seem to be refuted by the existence of politicians. How sad to have been raised like that. Was it: A) religious [A Calvinist for example] B) ethnic, C) or were you just raised to think that you were better than other people? Is your blood boiling yet? The harder you try to strike me down the weaker your argument becomes. Martin Aquinas – Civilizations are clashing…will you defend your own or doom your children? "We cannot forget. We cannot forgive … We went through too much. They will have a sentence of their own: Remembrance." Border…Language…Culture….QUICK!

Response:

On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 01:35:52 +0200, "Jesper Buch" <jesperb…@hotmail.com> wrote: >Is it that Threshold discussion your problem with ENTconsult is about ??

The toad has insulted me so many times now that I plum can’t recall. But I think that’s when he went haywire. Don’t waste your time researching as I don’t care. I think he’s a fool. And that’s all I’m gonna say about dat. Martin Aquinas – Civilizations are clashing…will you defend your own or doom your children? "We cannot forget. We cannot forgive … We went through too much. They will have a sentence of their own: Remembrance." Border…Language…Culture….QUICK!

Response:

ENTconsult wrote sagely:- > Martin into a wager which is why it makes > it interesting to see why he won’t take Martin up on this one. > the answer to that should be quite obvius. > a i don’t give a hoot what Martin wants. He is a fly in the ointment and beyond > contempt. I should discuss with that piece of … > b. whenever he is challenged he excuses himself > c. whenever he is challenged he answers by changing the subject or insults.  I > haven’t seen a straight answer from him yet to anyone.

exactly > The reason for asking to put up money is to force him into honest discussion. > So far I have failed. > The reason I ask him to contact me directly is to get his insults off this > newsgroup. I have failed. He has time to post 20+ insults to this group but no > time to write to me directly. > If he wants to challenge me, put up the money so we can do it in an HONEST way. > Otherwise I don’t care to waste the T groups time listening to his insults. > If he wants to keep the delusion that he knows more about tinnitus and how to > measure it and how to treat it, keep up the braying.  An audience of one

is … Murray, you’ll never get him to take up your challenge – he knows he’d lose you’ll never get him to take his insults from this newsgroup – it’s what trolls do you’ll never get him to take it to email – trolls need an audience you’ll never get an honest answer – he doesn’t know honest from a paper bag the answer is to laugh at him & all his works Cheers hic – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> http://www.ent-consult.com > http://www.hydromedonline.com/presentingthehydropulse/

Response:

da towel ("No one cares what you think") steps in something nasty:- > FWIW, lots of bargains have been made on this newsgroup.  Some have > lived up to their ends of the bargain; others have not.

yeah u wanna tell u fiend da yoliar bout that! > Murray keeps trying to coax Martin into a wager which is why it makes > it interesting to see why he won’t take Martin up on this one.

murray calls martinsock martinsock ducks & weaves (wots new?) martinsock throws some o his swill murrays way (wots new?) & da towel jumps in it! wots new? LOL!!! Cheers hic

Response:

"Jeff Radom" <jradomdeathtospamm…@nycap.rr.com> skrev i en meddelelse news:3F233381.A59C23D5@nycap.rr.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > "Martin" <oh_brother_where_art_t…@yahoo.com> > > My argument was, if I recall correctly, that someone with a threshold > > of a higher number [let's use 40] was better off as they had their > > hearing and it masked the tinnitus. IOW, my argument pointed out that > > the "professional" needed to rethink his position. > Is the above from "Martin"? I have him filtered out so I only see his > contributions to the group when someone responds to him. > His misunderstanding of the concept of the measurement of tinnitus as a level > above threshold has as its root his belief that a higher threshold of hearing > means having better hearing. As I understand it, the threshold is the level of > external sound at which the person begins to actually hear it. So a person with > a higher threshold has less heaing. So if the external sound that matches two > individuals’ perceived level of tinnitus is the same, the person with a lower > threshold (better hearing) will have a perceived tinnitus level higher than the > person with worse hearing (and thus higher threshold). Does Martin require an > example as well, or will correcting his assumption be enough for him to rethink > his position?

The word Threshold referes to the level of the tinnitus not the hearing.  40 dB af tinnitus is 40 dB no matter what you hearing threshold is. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Jeff

Response:

"ENTconsult" <entcons…@aol.comnospam> wrote in message

news:20030726183934.07637.00000810@mb-m14.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Martin into a wager which is why it makes > it interesting to see why he won’t take Martin up on this one. > the answer to that should be quite obvius. > a i don’t give a hoot what Martin wants. He is a fly in the ointment and beyond > contempt. I should discuss with that piece of … > b. whenever he is challenged he excuses himself > c. whenever he is challenged he answers by changing the subject or insults.  I > haven’t seen a straight answer from him yet to anyone. > The reason for asking to put up money is to force him into honest discussion. > So far I have failed. > The reason I ask him to contact me directly is to get his insults off this > newsgroup. I have failed. He has time to post 20+ insults to this group but no > time to write to me directly. > If he wants to challenge me, put up the money so we can do it in an HONEST way. > Otherwise I don’t care to waste the T groups time listening to his insults. > If he wants to keep the delusion that he knows more about tinnitus and how to > measure it and how to treat it, keep up the braying.  An audience of one is … > Murray Grossan, M.D. > http://www.ent-consult.com > http://www.hydromedonline.com/presentingthehydropulse/

Although Martin has taken a forceful guise, it looks like a neutral offer on paper. I suspect he is doing it publicly so that people can see who provided incorrect info.

Response:

"Martin" <oh_brother_where_art_t…@yahoo.com> skrev i en meddelelse news:u7v5iv4v6qcdsn9n80n5jh02f2m6aabvmi@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 20:36:03 GMT, terri…@knowspam.mam wrote: > >Murray keeps trying to coax Martin into a wager which is why it makes > >it interesting to see why he won’t take Martin up on this one. > I believe it is because he really stepped in it. Let me try to > summarize what I recall: > Murray used as an example someone with profound hearing loss. He then > discussed their tinnitus being at about the same frequency but about > 10 dB higher. There was some reference – now he’ll state I am > misquoting and that is fine because maybe he’ll revisit it – about it > not being that bothersome because the threshold was, for example, only > 10 dB. > My argument was, if I recall correctly, that someone with a threshold > of a higher number [let's use 40] was better off as they had their > hearing and it masked the tinnitus. IOW, my argument pointed out that > the "professional" needed to rethink his position.

Is it that Threshold discussion your problem with ENTconsult is about ?? Dead end discussion !! . . . . the word bothersome isn’t excactly something you can discuss. One with a normal hearing and without "T" is better of than one with "T" but it’s not interesting to discuss how bothersome a "T" is.   At least not scientificly. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The rest is history. > If he is willing to look at what he wrote and what I wrote then we can > see who is not correct. But I must admit that I’m getting tired of the > professional stench around here and might turn out the lights – very > temporarily – anyway. Of course, if Nagler post he should not be > surprised to see messages reminding him of his filth. > Martin Aquinas – Civilizations are clashing…will you defend your own or doom your children? > "We cannot forget. We cannot forgive … We went > through too much. They will have a sentence of their own: > Remembrance." > Border…Language…Culture….QUICK!

Response:

On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 02:02:31 +0100, "William Nunn" <phoneboxburner[edit]@hotmail.com> wrote: >Although Martin has taken a forceful guise, it looks like a neutral offer on >paper. I suspect he is doing it publicly so that people can see who provided >incorrect info.

You are one smart dude, William Wallace…I mean Nunn (g). Martin Aquinas – Civilizations are clashing…will you defend your own or doom your children? "We cannot forget. We cannot forgive … We went through too much. They will have a sentence of their own: Remembrance." Border…Language…Culture….QUICK!

Response:

On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 02:03:56 GMT, Jeff Radom <jradomdeathtospamm…@nycap.rr.com> wrote: >So if the external sound that matches two >individuals’ perceived level of tinnitus is the same, the person with a lower >threshold (better hearing) will have a perceived tinnitus level higher than the >person with worse hearing (and thus higher threshold).

Rethink or reword that, Jeff. Martin Aquinas – Civilizations are clashing…will you defend your own or doom your children? "We cannot forget. We cannot forgive … We went through too much. They will have a sentence of their own: Remembrance." Border…Language…Culture….QUICK!

Response:

On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 02:13:17 GMT, terri…@knowspam.mam wrote: >But a person with hearing and tinnitus can at least mask the sound. >If you have no hearing (I have none without a hearing aid) there isn’t >a way to mask the sound.

Give that cupi doll a cupi doll Let’s review, shall we? So, if you unfortunately have virtually no hearing at all, wouldn’t Murray’s argument as I recall it [let's give an example here of 90 dB to hear any sound at all outside frequencies and 90 dB of tinnitus at 10,000 Htz] your threshold level would be zero. Of course, that – the tinnitus level – might be hard to even calculate I would think. Now your tinnitus wouldn’t necessarily bother you at all, using Murray’s Pretzel Logic [apologies to Steely Dan]. Low threshold, again I’m working from memory, meant less likelyhood of bothersome tinnitus. Of course, all he has to do is revisit his original post and argue his point publicly. I have no money to speak of, so I guess he thinks I’m incapable of an honest discussion [as if I didn't hold him in enough contempt before more Pretzel Logic]. Terri, when you turn your hearing aid off, is dealing with your tinnitus more difficult? Martin Aquinas – Civilizations are clashing…will you defend your own or doom your children? "We cannot forget. We cannot forgive … We went through too much. They will have a sentence of their own: Remembrance." Border…Language…Culture….QUICK!

Response:

> "Martin" <oh_brother_where_art_t…@yahoo.com> > My argument was, if I recall correctly, that someone with a threshold > of a higher number [let's use 40] was better off as they had their > hearing and it masked the tinnitus. IOW, my argument pointed out that > the "professional" needed to rethink his position.

Is the above from "Martin"? I have him filtered out so I only see his contributions to the group when someone responds to him. His misunderstanding of the concept of the measurement of tinnitus as a level above threshold has as its root his belief that a higher threshold of hearing means having better hearing. As I understand it, the threshold is the level of external sound at which the person begins to actually hear it. So a person with a higher threshold has less heaing. So if the external sound that matches two individuals’ perceived level of tinnitus is the same, the person with a lower threshold (better hearing) will have a perceived tinnitus level higher than the person with worse hearing (and thus higher threshold). Does Martin require an example as well, or will correcting his assumption be enough for him to rethink his position? Jeff

Response:

On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 01:35:52 +0200, "Jesper Buch" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<jesperb…@hotmail.com> wrote: >"Martin" <oh_brother_where_art_t…@yahoo.com> skrev i en meddelelse >news:u7v5iv4v6qcdsn9n80n5jh02f2m6aabvmi@4ax.com… >> On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 20:36:03 GMT, terri…@knowspam.mam wrote: >> >Murray keeps trying to coax Martin into a wager which is why it makes >> >it interesting to see why he won’t take Martin up on this one. >> I believe it is because he really stepped in it. Let me try to >> summarize what I recall: >> Murray used as an example someone with profound hearing loss. He then >> discussed their tinnitus being at about the same frequency but about >> 10 dB higher. There was some reference – now he’ll state I am >> misquoting and that is fine because maybe he’ll revisit it – about it >> not being that bothersome because the threshold was, for example, only >> 10 dB. >> My argument was, if I recall correctly, that someone with a threshold >> of a higher number [let's use 40] was better off as they had their >> hearing and it masked the tinnitus. IOW, my argument pointed out that >> the "professional" needed to rethink his position. >Is it that Threshold discussion your problem with ENTconsult is about ?? >Dead end discussion !! . . . . the word bothersome isn’t excactly something >you can discuss. >One with a normal hearing and without "T" is better of than one with "T" but >it’s not interesting to discuss how bothersome a "T" is.   At least not >scientificly.

But a person with hearing and tinnitus can at least mask the sound. If you have no hearing (I have none without a hearing aid) there isn’t a way to mask the sound. Terri

Response:

On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 21:10:36 +0200, "Jesper Buch" <jesperb…@hotmail.com> wrote: >he he . . . . if what your post makes sense you can post as much as you >like.  This newsgroup is not about bargins but if it’s a personal race you >have with someone else and not a benefit for the newsgruop then don’t.

But I believe it is a benefit to the group. It is simple. Murray discussed thresholds and tinnitus perception. I think he was dead wrong and gave a very detailed response. Then all hell broke loose. Obviously he is not going to admit that my comments were correct. But if he revisits the posting – one which could, IMO, confuse tinnitus sufferers – and either shows that I am wrong or admits that he was incorrect, I’ll leave for 30 days. Now what could be better than that. I am search for truth on the subject. Couldn’t an ENT looking for a buck with ads find the time to discuss it again. HINT: Chiinis said he read it and Murray is right. He offered no proof either. Makes one wonder. Martin Aquinas – Civilizations are clashing…will you defend your own or doom your children? "We cannot forget. We cannot forgive … We went through too much. They will have a sentence of their own: Remembrance." Border…Language…Culture….QUICK!

Response:

On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 21:10:36 +0200, "Jesper Buch" <jesperb…@hotmail.com> wrote: >"Martin" <oh_brother_where_art_t…@yahoo.com> skrev i en meddelelse >news:2814ivg48foru4ftt0vd0v0pkji6j7p22d@4ax.com… >> Answer me that Murray. >> If you show that you are right and I am wrong about thresholds and >> tinnitus perception I will not post during the entire month of August. >he he . . . . if what your post makes sense you can post as much as you >like.  This newsgroup is not about bargins but if it’s a personal race you >have with someone else and not a benefit for the newsgruop then don’t.

FWIW, lots of bargains have been made on this newsgroup.  Some have lived up to their ends of the bargain; others have not.   Murray keeps trying to coax Martin into a wager which is why it makes it interesting to see why he won’t take Martin up on this one. Terri

Response:

On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 20:36:03 GMT, terri…@knowspam.mam wrote: >Murray keeps trying to coax Martin into a wager which is why it makes >it interesting to see why he won’t take Martin up on this one.

I believe it is because he really stepped in it. Let me try to summarize what I recall: Murray used as an example someone with profound hearing loss. He then discussed their tinnitus being at about the same frequency but about 10 dB higher. There was some reference – now he’ll state I am misquoting and that is fine because maybe he’ll revisit it – about it not being that bothersome because the threshold was, for example, only 10 dB. My argument was, if I recall correctly, that someone with a threshold of a higher number [let's use 40] was better off as they had their hearing and it masked the tinnitus. IOW, my argument pointed out that the "professional" needed to rethink his position. The rest is history. If he is willing to look at what he wrote and what I wrote then we can see who is not correct. But I must admit that I’m getting tired of the professional stench around here and might turn out the lights – very temporarily – anyway. Of course, if Nagler post he should not be surprised to see messages reminding him of his filth. Martin Aquinas – Civilizations are clashing…will you defend your own or doom your children? "We cannot forget. We cannot forgive … We went through too much. They will have a sentence of their own: Remembrance." Border…Language…Culture….QUICK!

Response:

Martin into a wager which is why it makes it interesting to see why he won’t take Martin up on this one. the answer to that should be quite obvius. a i don’t give a hoot what Martin wants. He is a fly in the ointment and beyond contempt. I should discuss with that piece of … b. whenever he is challenged he excuses himself c. whenever he is challenged he answers by changing the subject or insults.  I haven’t seen a straight answer from him yet to anyone. The reason for asking to put up money is to force him into honest discussion. So far I have failed. The reason I ask him to contact me directly is to get his insults off this newsgroup. I have failed. He has time to post 20+ insults to this group but no time to write to me directly. If he wants to challenge me, put up the money so we can do it in an HONEST way. Otherwise I don’t care to waste the T groups time listening to his insults. If he wants to keep the delusion that he knows more about tinnitus and how to measure it and how to treat it, keep up the braying.  An audience of one is … Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com http://www.hydromedonline.com/presentingthehydropulse/

Response:

"Martin" <oh_brother_where_art_t…@yahoo.com> skrev i en meddelelse news:u7v5iv4v6qcdsn9n80n5jh02f2m6aabvmi@4ax.com… > On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 20:36:03 GMT, terri…@knowspam.mam wrote: > >Murray keeps trying to coax Martin into a wager which is why it makes > >it interesting to see why he won’t take Martin up on this one. > I believe it is because he really stepped in it. Let me try to > summarize what I recall: > Murray used as an example someone with profound hearing loss. He then > discussed their tinnitus being at about the same frequency but about > 10 dB higher. There was some reference – now he’ll state I am > misquoting and that is fine because maybe he’ll revisit it – about it > not being that bothersome because the threshold was, for example, only > 10 dB.

Is that interesting ? . . . it’s not a who’s got the most anoying "T" contest !  and it is highly objective.   There is no direct link between the threshold and the anoyance . . . it’s higly objective and two people with the same hearing ( or none ) and the same "T" threshold and "sound" may not be equally bothered at all. > My argument was, if I recall correctly, that someone with a threshold > of a higher number [let's use 40] was better off as they had their > hearing and it masked the tinnitus. IOW, my argument pointed out that > the "professional" needed to rethink his position.

That is not nesseserily ture. You can’t mesure a "T" by how bothersome  it is !! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The rest is history. > If he is willing to look at what he wrote and what I wrote then we can > see who is not correct. But I must admit that I’m getting tired of the > professional stench around here and might turn out the lights – very > temporarily – anyway. Of course, if Nagler post he should not be > surprised to see messages reminding him of his filth. > Martin Aquinas – Civilizations are clashing…will you defend your own or doom your children? > "We cannot forget. We cannot forgive … We went > through too much. They will have a sentence of their own: > Remembrance." > Border…Language…Culture….QUICK!

Response:

On 26 Jul 2003 17:09:21 GMT, entcons…@aol.comnospam (ENTconsult) wrote: >As Teri has suggested, take your hate stuff off this newsgroup.

Murray, you have me confused with someone else. How am I posting "hate stuff"? >>You have my address , you can write to me directly.<<

Nah, I think you lack the courage to admit that you were wrong. I swear to God I will not post for thirty days when you post "Martin was right on his interpretation of thresholds and I [Murray] inadvertently had it backwards." >> Your insults to this newsgroup demean you.<<

Think of the people I save from the Ambiguously Gay Due though. >Since I requested that you write to me directly to clear up your lies about Dr >Chinnis, you have posted a dozen + mails here.

Thanks for noticing. >Yet you don’t have time to post >to me directly where the readers here won’t be bothered.

What do you and I have to say that others can’t hear. >SHAME ON YOU

No doctor, shame on YOU as you advertize here and also as you sit idly by and say nothing to the professional who destroyed this group. >Murray Grossan, M.D. >http://www.ent-consult.com >http://www.hydromedonline.com/presentingthehydropulse/

Please stop advertizing nasal products on a tinnitus group. I think it is bad form. Martin Aquinas – Civilizations are clashing…will you defend your own or doom your children? "We cannot forget. We cannot forgive … We went through too much. They will have a sentence of their own: Remembrance." Border…Language…Culture….QUICK!

Response:

"Martin" <oh_brother_where_art_t…@yahoo.com> skrev i en meddelelse news:2814ivg48foru4ftt0vd0v0pkji6j7p22d@4ax.com… > Answer me that Murray. > If you show that you are right and I am wrong about thresholds and > tinnitus perception I will not post during the entire month of August.

he he . . . . if what your post makes sense you can post as much as you like.  This newsgroup is not about bargins but if it’s a personal race you have with someone else and not a benefit for the newsgruop then don’t. > Your silence is deafening. > I’ll tell you what, if you will just read the discussion again and > admit that you were incorrect in your analysis AND stop adverting more > than just your first line in your sig, I’ll leave for six weeks.

ZZzzzzzz Zzzzzz . . . . – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> What could be more fair than that? I’m trying to work with you, > Murray, but you have to take the first step. I can’t do this alone. > Martin Aquinas – Civilizations are clashing…will you defend your own or doom your children? > "We cannot forget. We cannot forgive … We went > through too much. They will have a sentence of their own: > Remembrance." > Border…Language…Culture….QUICK!

Response:

Answer me that Murray. If you show that you are right and I am wrong about thresholds and tinnitus perception I will not post during the entire month of August. Your silence is deafening. I’ll tell you what, if you will just read the discussion again and admit that you were incorrect in your analysis AND stop adverting more than just your first line in your sig, I’ll leave for six weeks. What could be more fair than that? I’m trying to work with you, Murray, but you have to take the first step. I can’t do this alone. Martin Aquinas – Civilizations are clashing…will you defend your own or doom your children? "We cannot forget. We cannot forgive … We went through too much. They will have a sentence of their own: Remembrance." Border…Language…Culture….QUICK!

Response:

As Teri has suggested, take your hate stuff off this newsgroup. You have my address , you can write to me directly. Your insults to this newsgroup demean you. Since I requested that you write to me directly to clear up your lies about Dr Chinnis, you have posted a dozen + mails here. Yet you don’t have time to post to me directly where the readers here won’t be bothered. SHAME ON YOU Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com http://www.hydromedonline.com/presentingthehydropulse/

Response:

300 Sept 11s is enough: act now to stop the war at home

Question:

Our government is proposing to let polluting industries get away with killing tens or hundreds of thousands of people by eviscerating a key provision of the Clean Air Act.  Your help is needed to prevent this. Pollution from U.S. electric power plants alone kills 30,000 people per year. [ http://cta.policy.net/proactive/newsroom/release.vtml?id=19140 ]

Have any proof from a peer-reviewed journal? Didn’t think so… That’s about 10 times the number killed in the World Trade Center attack of September 11.  To date, for each American killed by terrorism, a total of about 300 have been killed by electric power plant pollution, so if we are rational and value life, we will spend 300 times as much effort on stopping toxics than we spend on stopping terrorism.

Yet the same enviro-kooks protesting fossil fuels are also against the only "clean-burning" alternative – nuclear power. Go figure. :O|

Response:

Our government is proposing to let polluting industries get away with killing tens or hundreds of thousands of people by eviscerating a key provision of the Clean Air Act.  Your help is needed to prevent this. Pollution from U.S. electric power plants alone kills 30,000 people per year. [ http://cta.policy.net/proactive/newsroom/release.vtml?id=19140 ] Have any proof from a peer-reviewed journal? Didn’t think so…

Your failure to read any of the links I supplied, your failure to read any of the 206 pages of the document described in the link above, your failure to notice the 9 pages of references therein, and your failure to provide even the pretense of a substantive or factual challenge is duly noted. Or are you asserting that the New England Journal of Medicine is not credible? That’s about 10 times the number killed in the World Trade Center attack of September 11.  To date, for each American killed by terrorism, a total of about 300 have been killed by electric power plant pollution, so if we are rational and value life, we will spend 300 times as much effort on stopping toxics than we spend on stopping terrorism. Yet the same enviro-kooks protesting fossil fuels are also against the only "clean-burning" alternative – nuclear power. Go figure. :O|

Your haste to change the subject is interesting. Please educate yourself on the facts. The states of North Dakota, South Dakota, and Texas alone have sufficient wind to provide electricity for the entire nation, so the idea nuclear is the only alternative is preposterous. If you think it’s clean, try finding out what happened at Rio Puerco, Kyshtym, Chernobyl, … — delete N0SPAAM to reply by email

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Our government is proposing to let polluting industries get away with killing tens or hundreds of thousands of people by eviscerating a key provision of the Clean Air Act.  Your help is needed to prevent this. Pollution from U.S. electric power plants alone kills 30,000 people per  year. [ http://cta.policy.net/proactive/newsroom/release.vtml?id=19140 ] Have any proof from a peer-reviewed journal? Didn’t think so… Your failure to read any of the links I supplied, your failure to read any of the 206 pages of the document described in the link above, your failure to notice the 9 pages of references therein, and your failure to provide even the pretense of a substantive or factual challenge is duly noted. Or are you asserting that the New England Journal of Medicine is not credible? That’s about 10 times the number killed in the World Trade Center attack of September 11.  To date, for each American killed by terrorism, a total of about 300 have been killed by electric power plant pollution, so if we are rational and value life, we will spend 300 times as much effort on stopping toxics than we spend on stopping terrorism. Yet the same enviro-kooks protesting fossil fuels are also against the only "clean-burning" alternative – nuclear power. Go figure. :O| Your haste to change the subject is interesting. Please educate yourself on the facts. The states of North Dakota, South Dakota, and Texas alone have sufficient wind to provide electricity for the entire nation, so the idea nuclear is the only alternative is preposterous. If you think it’s clean, try finding out what happened at Rio Puerco, Kyshtym, Chernobyl, …

Soooo, your solution is to move EVERYONE out of the states of N.Dakota, S.Dakota and Teaxasw and cover these states with wind generators to supply energy gor the rest of the nation?  Talk about ridiulous. The nuclear plants that you mentioned were all poorly and inefficently maintained and run. There has NEVER been and nuclear incident anywhere else EVER. France gets over 40% of its energy needs from nuclear and it IS the cleanest form of energy in Europe. The USA has the cleanset power plants in the world and they will continue to get better. Wind/Solar/Hydrogen and any other exotic forms of energy are not feasible or efficent at this time. Does that mean they should not be looked at or developed? Of course not but your tree huggers attitude of tearing down all existing power plants and stopping the use of fossil fuels is pie in the sky idiocy! The US need to responsibly use existing forms of energy which means coal, gas, oil and as much as you hate it, nuclear and at the same time look into and develop alternative forms of energy for the day when the other stuff runs out or until it can be developed cheaper than fossil fuel.

Response:

The states of North Dakota, South Dakota, and Texas alone have sufficient wind to provide electricity for the entire nation,

So do the Democrats. However, harnessing it for practical use is another issue altogether.

Response:

Our government is proposing to let polluting industries get away with killing tens or hundreds of thousands of people by eviscerating a key provision of the Clean Air Act.  Your help is needed to prevent this. Pollution from U.S. electric power plants alone kills 30,000 people per year. [ http://cta.policy.net/proactive/newsroom/release.vtml?id=19140 ] That’s about 10 times the number killed in the World Trade Center attack of September 11.  To date, for each American killed by terrorism, a total of about 300 have been killed by electric power plant pollution, so if we are rational and value life, we will spend 300 times as much effort on stopping toxics than we spend on stopping terrorism. Industries often oppose pollution reduction requirements saying it’s too expensive, but the facts are now in:  for each dollar spent to comply with clean air regulations, we have received $42 in benefits through such things as reduction in damage to health.  What other investment yields a 4,200% return that is both risk-free and legitimate?  Tens of trillions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of lives have been saved. [ Benefits and Costs of the Clean Air Act 1970-1990: http://www.epa.gov/oar/sect812/design.html ] But the continuing damage is large due to some big loopholes, so there is much more to do.  The dirtiest plants have not been affected, and polluters have been illegally calling major upgrades "routine maintenance" to dodge the requirement for pollution reduction.  The administration is now trying to legitimize such shenanigans. Children may be hit the hardest. Average health risks to children due to exposure to power plant combustion wastes could be up to 10,000 times higher than EPA’s allowable risk levels for cancer and other illnesses. In utero exposure to power plant pollutants was associated with learning disabilities that extended to 8th grade. [ Physicians for Social Responsibility (representing 22,000 physicians and health professionals) http://www.commondreams.org/news2002/0613-10.htm http://www.envirohealthaction.org/upload_files/ChildrenatRisk.pdf ] The administration is rewarding major campaign contributors with sweeping rollbacks of the Clean Air Act’s New Source Review safeguards, allowing major energy corporations to increase air pollution dramatically. A Center for Responsive Politics search of Federal Election Commission data reveals that several of the utilities charged with violating this clean air law were major campaign donors.  [ Clear the Air http://cta.policy.net/proactive/newsroom/release.vtml?id=24000 ] To send a letter to the EPA online, go to http://pirg.org/alerts/route.asp?id=152&id4=POHP Comment instructions from http://www.epa.gov/air/nsr-review/comment.html : Attention Docket ID No. A-2002-04 Mail two copies of comments to: Attention Docket ID No. A-2002-04 U.S. Environmental Protection Agency EPA West (Air Docket) Room: B108, Mail code: 6102T 1200 Pennsylvania Ave, NW Washington, DC, 20460 Fax comments to (202) 566-1741, Attention Docket ID. No. A-2002-04 The deadline is May 2, 2003. Spread the word, pass this on to people you know, contact the media, etc. Send a copy of your letter to your senators and house representative and tell them to overrule any weakening of the Clean Air Act. Tell your state attorney general and governor to challenge these moves and maintain higher air quality standards in your state. In the mean time, the more we reduce our consumption of electricity and fossil fuels, the smaller the damage to people and other living beings. Sample letter follows. re: Docket ID No. A-2002-04 The proposed changes to New Source Review of the Clean Air Act, as well as the other changes made in December 2002, must be withdrawn. Any changes must be based on the principle that the right to life and health takes precedence over economic concerns of industry. Recalcitrant highest-polluting old plants have had a free ride for three decades. That’s far too long.  It’s unfair to allow them to literally get away with murder while being given a competitive advantage, exempted from rules everybody else is required to meet. Thus the conditionality of New Source Review on major upgrades must be eliminated for old plants.  They must be required to meet current standards as soon as practical and in any event no more than 2 years. A market system cannot work if the costs are not properly accounted. The full costs of damage to public health shall be calculated and billed to polluters proportional to the amount of pollution. The bill must not be slipped to consumers through higher health insurance and taxes. Under capitalism, you get the reward if you assume the risk. Under socialism, the public gets both the reward and the risk. When industry gets the profit and the public gets the liability, we have neither of these, but rather what is commonly called a swindle or a scam. All permits and rules must be contingent on pollution reduction actually occurring, not like the administration proposals that give concrete benefits to industry in exchange for hypothetical effects on pollution that may turn out in actuality to be increases rather than reductions. Sincerely, For more details including rebuttal of industry/administration claims, see http://www.citizen.org/texas/EnvProt/NSR/articles.cfm?ID=8601 http://www.savethecleanairact.org http://cta.policy.net/proactive/newsroom/release.vtml?id=21900 http://cta.policy.net/proactive/newsroom/release.vtml?id=22820 http://www.lungusa.org/press/envir/air_112202.html The costs of outdoor air pollution are around $50 billion per year. So the question is not whether we pay, the question is who should pay: the victims whose health is damaged, or those responsible for causing the problem?  $50 billion is 100 times the amount lost in all robberies.  So if we are rational, we will spend 100 times more effort cracking down on the damage caused by big polluters than on street crime. [ http://www.cleanerandgreener.org/schools/pollution.htm http://cta.policy.net/proactive/newsroom/release.vtml?id=17323 ] This proposal allows old, virtually uncontrolled power plants to continue to emit enormous amounts of pollution by avoiding installation of modern pollution controls. Power plant pollution is responsible for millions of asthma attacks, hundreds of thousands of hospital emergency room visits, and tens of thousands of premature deaths annually.  [ Public Interest Research Group  http://pirg.org/alerts/route.asp?id=152&id4=POHP ] Electric utilities have been generating as much as a billion pounds of toxic chemicals per year, including sulfuric acid, mercury, lead, hydrochloric acid, hydrofluoric acid, particulates, dioxins, arsenic, cadmium, nitrogen oxides, sulfur dioxide, manganese compounds, nickel compounds, n-hexane, toluene, etc.  These chemicals cause cancer, asthma, brain damage, fatigue, heart damage, lung damage, Parkinson’s-like nervous disorders, liver damage, kidney disorders, bronchitis, testicular damage, dizziness, hearing loss, allergies, vision problems, poor balance, tooth erosion, memory loss, death, etc.  For details, see http://cta.policy.net/proactive/newsroom/release.vtml?id=19080 http://cta.policy.net/proactive/newsroom/release.vtml?id=18980 http://www.green-e.org/your_e_choices/pollutants.html This would be a major setback for public health. The only initiative proposed by the Administration to reduce air pollution, the Clear Skies Initiative, would not go into effect for 10 years or more. People living with unhealthy levels of air pollution today can’t hold their breath that long. 175 million Americans live in areas violating air health standards. Lung disease is the third leading cause of death in the U.S.  [ American Lung Association  http://www.lungusa.org/press/envir/air_112202.html ] Polluting industries have spent millions of dollars lobbying to avoid being required to take responsibility for their actions.  Industry claims about clean-up costs and job losses have proven to be grossly inflated. Sulfur dioxide emissions reductions now cost 1/10 what was predicted when the Clean Air Act Amendments were passed, and there’s a whole new job-creating pollution control industry. — delete N0SPAAM to reply by email

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