Help with research required urgently

Question:

Hello everyone I am a student at London South Bank University. At the moment I am making research about design new hearing aid. The concern is that only 1 from 5 of hearing impairment use the hearing aid. I would like to get the answer why is like that and come out with new design which meets requirments of hearing impairments. The target group of people is between 18-45 years old. I am looking for people who can fill for me a questionnaire which is the starting point for my research. If someone can help me with this please send mi email to michal_kopaczew…@op.pl or kopac…@lsbu.ac.uk and i will send back the questionnaire to fill. I will appreciate any help. Michal Kopaczewski

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -michal_kopaczew…@op.pl wrote: > Hello everyone > I am a student at London South Bank University. > At the moment I am making research about design new hearing aid. > The concern is that only 1 from 5 of hearing impairment use the hearing > aid. I would like to get the answer why is like that and come out with > new design which meets requirments of hearing impairments. The target > group of people is between 18-45 years old. > I am looking for people who can fill for me a questionnaire which is > the starting point for my research. > If someone can help me with this please send mi email to > michal_kopaczew…@op.pl or kopac…@lsbu.ac.uk and i will send back > the questionnaire to fill. I will appreciate any help. > Michal Kopaczewski

Why are you confining yourself to the 18 to 45 age group? There are far more people with hearing problems in the 45+ age group.

Response:

Yes I agree but there is the hypotesis that they (group 45+) have got different preferences about hearing aids that younger people.  This is what I want to check.  The problem is that in that age group (18-45) there is something like a stigma about using hearing aids (only 9% of people who need hearing aids use them). The question is how should look and which properties should have hearing aid. I am looking for design which suits this age group. So is there is somone who can help me ? Maybe I will post the questionnaire here so people can fill it ? I would like also to check preferences and compare them in the age group 45-65 and 65+. Thanks for any help

Response:

Jury duty?

Question:

to all who responded thank you!

Response:

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 10:06:18 -0400, "Anthony" <JAW…@comcast.net> took a very strange rock and inscribed these words: >I live in the US and am eligible to be called for jury duty.  Even with my >Widex Divas my word discrimination would not be up to this task.  Has anyone >had experience of getting excused duty on the basis of poor hearing?

Ask for accommodation. In your case, probably the text of what the court reporter types would suffice, also known as "realtime captioning." — Therese Shellabarger / The Roving Reporter – Civis Mundi tlsh…@concentric.net        /    http://tlshell.cnc.net/

Response:

terri asked >Could you explain how the CART system works and >do you know what it costs,

for example? It’s a form of Real Time Captioning, as I understand it.  And no, I have no idea of the cost……sorry signman

Response:

I couple years back I got called for jury duty…….sent a letter from my primary Dr. indicating that I was hearing impaired…….Got a note back from the court excusing me from jury duty………that’s it.

Response:

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 10:06:18 -0400, "Anthony" <JAW…@comcast.net> wrote: >I live in the US and am eligible to be called for jury duty.  Even with my >Widex Divas my word discrimination would not be up to this task.  Has anyone >had experience of getting excused duty on the basis of poor hearing?

One time I just sent the summons back after writing "Hearing Impaired" on it.  Never heard more. Another time (different city) I’d heard that they have transcribers so I went to the court.  No transcribers so the lady excused me and I wasn’t called again. — Get on the NRA Blacklist:  http://www.NRAblacklist.com

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 10:31:49 -0400, "signman" <sign…@ptd.net> wrote: >"Anthony" wrote >>I live in the US and am eligible to be called for jury >duty.  Even with my >Widex Divas my word >discrimination would not be up to this task.  Has >>anyone had experience of getting excused duty on the >basis of poor >hearing? >Yes, I had my audiologist write a letter to the county Jury Commissioner and >explain that, without having a CART system or sign interpreter available >(paid by the county), that I was unable to properly perform my duties as a >juror. >I sent the letter with my jury paperwork and within a week, received a >letter from the Jury Commissioner excusing me from duty. >I haven’t received a summons for jury duty since then! >The bad part of it is that I WANTED to serve!  Our county is too darn frugal >to get either the CART system or the sign language interpreter….it’s >easier for them just to excuse me! >signman

Could you explain how the CART system works and do you know what it costs, for example? Terri http://pub219.ezboard.com/btinnitusactivismandsupport

Response:

frugal or cheap? "signman" <sign…@ptd.net> wrote in message

news:37qdna11GNgyDx_dUSdV9g@ptd.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Anthony" wrote > >I live in the US and am eligible to be called for jury >duty.  Even with my > Widex Divas my word >discrimination would not be up to this task.  Has > >anyone had experience of getting excused duty on the >basis of poor > hearing? > Yes, I had my audiologist write a letter to the county Jury Commissioner and > explain that, without having a CART system or sign interpreter available > (paid by the county), that I was unable to properly perform my duties as a > juror. > I sent the letter with my jury paperwork and within a week, received a > letter from the Jury Commissioner excusing me from duty. > I haven’t received a summons for jury duty since then! > The bad part of it is that I WANTED to serve!  Our county is too darn frugal > to get either the CART system or the sign language interpreter….it’s > easier for them just to excuse me! > signman

Response:

We get a short questionnaire with our jury summons, and one of the questions is whether you are hearing impaired and whether you wear HAs.  The last time I got summoned, I did have trouble hearing one of the attorneys during the voir-dire and told the judge that when I was interviewed.  I got dismissed from the jury, but so did all the other whites, so I don’t know whether it was the HAs or my race that did it. "Anthony" <JAW…@comcast.net> wrote in message

news:_sSdnbiC96SrFh_d4p2dnA@comcast.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I live in the US and am eligible to be called for jury duty.  Even with my > Widex Divas my word discrimination would not be up to this task.  Has anyone > had experience of getting excused duty on the basis of poor hearing?

Response:

I live in the US and am eligible to be called for jury duty.  Even with my Widex Divas my word discrimination would not be up to this task.  Has anyone had experience of getting excused duty on the basis of poor hearing?

Response:

"Anthony" <JAW…@comcast.net> wrote in message

news:_sSdnbiC96SrFh_d4p2dnA@comcast.com… > I live in the US and am eligible to be called for jury duty.  Even with my > Widex Divas my word discrimination would not be up to this task.  Has anyone > had experience of getting excused duty on the basis of poor hearing?

I simply returned the invitation with a short note that I was hearing impaired. I received a letter back excusing me from jury duty. This was a number of years back and I have never got another notice. Chas Hurst

Response:

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 10:06:18 -0400, "Anthony" <JAW…@comcast.net> wrote: >I live in the US and am eligible to be called for jury duty.  Even with my >Widex Divas my word discrimination would not be up to this task.  Has anyone >had experience of getting excused duty on the basis of poor hearing?

I had my husband call for me and say I was hearing impaired and had trouble with speech discrimination.  The court clerk said that they would require "proof" of hearing impairment (ie audiogram) and I would remain on their list until then.  When the actual week arrived, I was notified by phone that I would not be needed so I never had to produce the documentation. Terri http://pub219.ezboard.com/btinnitusactivismandsupport

Response:

"Anthony" wrote >I live in the US and am eligible to be called for jury >duty.  Even with my

Widex Divas my word >discrimination would not be up to this task.  Has >anyone had experience of getting excused duty on the >basis of poor

hearing? Yes, I had my audiologist write a letter to the county Jury Commissioner and explain that, without having a CART system or sign interpreter available (paid by the county), that I was unable to properly perform my duties as a juror. I sent the letter with my jury paperwork and within a week, received a letter from the Jury Commissioner excusing me from duty. I haven’t received a summons for jury duty since then! The bad part of it is that I WANTED to serve!  Our county is too darn frugal to get either the CART system or the sign language interpreter….it’s easier for them just to excuse me! signman

Response:

EU BIONIC EAR research project looks into new ways to cure deafness

Question:

EU BIONIC EAR research project looks into new ways to cure deafness Results from the EU-funded BIONIC EAR project will be presented by the European Commission at this year’s annual meeting of the American Society for Cell Biology (ASCB). The meeting opens tonight in San Francisco The European Union is funding the 4-year BIONIC EAR project with

Talking to Social Work Students

Question:

I am a 40 year, HOH social work student. In the past couple of years, I’ve noticed my hearing diminishing. It’s gotten to the point that I need HAs and I’m working on getting funding for them. However, I’m doing a presentation in a social class on hearing impairment. Most of the students in the class will be social workers or teachers. If you could tell them one thing about how to treat HOH folks, something that they need to know to be effective in helping others, what would you like to tell them? I will share the results with the class. Thanks for taking the time to respond. Jean from Cleveland

Response:

Hi Jean, Personally, I feel patience is the best virtue when dealing with any sort of disability. Being a teacher, social worker, nurse, doctor or whatever, needs the practice of unlimited patience and being able to be non-judgemental, towards all people they deal with. Disabled or not. Regards, Maree "juggler63" <juggle…@comcast.net> wrote in message

news:ik3fb.665432$Ho3.138111@sccrnsc03… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I am a 40 year, HOH social work student. In the past couple of years, I’ve > noticed my hearing diminishing. It’s gotten to the point that I need HAs and > I’m working on getting funding for them. However, I’m doing a presentation > in a social class on hearing impairment. Most of the students in the class > will be social workers or teachers. If you could tell them one thing about > how to treat HOH folks, something that they need to know to be effective in > helping others, what would you like to tell them? I will share the results > with the class. Thanks for taking the time to respond. > Jean from Cleveland

Response:

You might have them tell the HOH to be sure to let whomever they are talking to know they are HOH. This little thing works wonders. Parker "maree" <mare…@bigpond.com> wrote in message

news:mxbfb.134551$bo1.84830@news-server.bigpond.net.au… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi Jean, > Personally, I feel patience is the best virtue when dealing with any sort of > disability. Being a teacher, social worker, nurse, doctor or whatever, needs > the practice of unlimited patience and being able to be non-judgemental, > towards all people they deal with. Disabled or not. > Regards, Maree > "juggler63" <juggle…@comcast.net> wrote in message > news:ik3fb.665432$Ho3.138111@sccrnsc03… > > I am a 40 year, HOH social work student. In the past couple of years, I’ve > > noticed my hearing diminishing. It’s gotten to the point that I need HAs > and > > I’m working on getting funding for them. However, I’m doing a presentation > > in a social class on hearing impairment. Most of the students in the class > > will be social workers or teachers. If you could tell them one thing about > > how to treat HOH folks, something that they need to know to be effective > in > > helping others, what would you like to tell them? I will share the results > > with the class. Thanks for taking the time to respond. > > Jean from Cleveland

Response:

And face the HOH individual.  Lip reading is very valuable along with hearing aids etc. ">

Response:

Adoption reversed, mom wins boy back

Question:

Adoption reversed, mom wins boy back Michigan’s top court admits case was tough May 21, 2003 BY PATRICIA MONTEMURRI AND EMILIA ASKARI FREE PRESS STAFF WRITERS A 5-year-old boy must be removed from his adoptive parents and returned to his Grand Rapids area birth mother, who last cared for him when he was a 16-month-old toddler, the Michigan Supreme Court ruled Tuesday in what it called "an imperfect decision" with heartbreaking implications. In a 6-0 ruling, the court said Kent County Probate Judge Patricia Gardner "clearly erred" when she terminated Melissa Kucharski’s parental rights in March 2001 based largely on a therapist’s one-hour assessment of an alleged attachment and bonding problem between the mother and child. "I’m excited, pretty happy, kind of anxious," Kucharski said Tuesday evening. "I knew in my heart that if the right person heard my story, they’d know that I was done wrong, that it would turn out the way it did." The decision invalidates the boy’s adoption. The court ordered the state Family Independence Agency to begin efforts to reunite the mother and the boy, Jacob, who has spent about three years with foster parents who later adopted him. The adoptive parents, John and Deb Wordhouse of Grand Rapids, seemed shaken when a reporter talked to them Tuesday evening at their home. They had no comment before talking to their lawyer. The issue recalls the wrenching and hotly debated Baby Jessica custody case of 1993, when courts ruled to take the 2-year-old from her Ann Arbor adoptive parents and give her to her Iowa birth parents. In a telephone interview from her Wayland home Tuesday evening, Kucharski said she was a 16-year-old student in Grand Rapids when she became pregnant. She said she had a marijuana problem but conquered it long before she lost her parental rights to her son when she was 19. Since then, she has bought a house with her fiance, Derrick Rademaker. The couple have an 18-month-old son, Elijah, and a bedroom waiting for Jacob. She said she left it undecorated so Jacob can help pick the furnishings. She and Rademaker both work at a Grand Rapids cookie factory. The couple plan to wed, and want Jacob to be in the wedding, but she said they were waiting for the legal issues around Jacob’s adoption to end. "If he does remember me, it will be the best day of my life," Kucharski said. "If he doesn’t, that’s going to be a little harder. But I think that he’s going to transition just fine." In Tuesday’s opinion, the court said Gardner seemed unduly influenced by the relative wealth of the adoptive parents, who also had been the child’s foster parents, and wrongly terminated Kucharski’s parental rights. The child was 16 months old in April 1999 when he was taken from his mother because of her marijuana use. The boy was placed in a foster home, while the mother entered an inpatient treatment program. After some initial problems, Kucharski got good reviews from social workers, a therapist and a psychologist about her progress in beating the drug problem, and in her interactions with her son. But one therapist, after a one-hour session with the mother and son, said the two didn’t bond well. Even that therapist acknowledged that "the mother had appropriate housing and employment, was able to care for herself, had completed an independent-living program and remained drug-free for over one year," the court said. The therapist, Yvwania Richardson of Flint, testified that she was concerned about the boy’s speech development and responsiveness to Kucharski. Kucharski’s lawyer argued that the boy’s problems were the result of a hearing impairment. Once the boy had his tonsils removed and tubes placed in his ears in January 2002, his vocabulary skyrocketed, the lawyer said. Richardson declined to discuss details of the case Tuesday. "I’ve got 30 years of experience. I stand by my report," she said. Lora Holewinski of Grand Rapids was the Catholic Social Services caseworker who helped place Jacob with his adoptive family. She said Kucharski lost the custody of the boy not only because of a drug problem, but also because she had poor parenting skills. "One of the reasons he came to us was because of a lack of attention by the mother," said Holewinski, who no longer works for the agency. "She would leave him in a playpen for hours on end." She said Kucharski moved out of the county to have her second child because she was afraid he would also be taken into foster care. Of the court decision, Holewinski said, "it’s just going to destroy Jacob. I don’t think the government understands the attachment issue. I just feel so bad for Jacob and his adoptive parents." The court said Kucharski "fulfilled every requirement" authorities put before her to regain custody of the boy. "The fundamental right of a parent and child to maintain the family relationship can be overcome only by clear and convincing evidence, which, in this case, was not supplied by this single witness," the court said. The court said Gardner appeared to be wrongly and unduly influenced by the relative advantages of the adoptive home compared to the mother’s home. Gardner could not be reached for comment Tuesday evening. Contact PATRICIA MONTEMURRI at 313-223-4538 or report. Copyright

noise in outdrive omc king cobra

Question:

Hello group, its me again. new to boating first yr. I looked for a reference to this and found none that I could open. I’m getting a noise in my omc 1994 king cobra outdrive, gets quieter when I pick up the outdrive alittle bit and going strait. seems to get louder the more I turn. also some vibration coming from it. do u think it is the universal joints? I greased the gimbal bearing and no different. the boat is docked and I don’t have a trailer so I have to get it right the first time my dock said it my be barnacles on my oudrive or some on the prop. don’t see anything major some fury growth on outdrive not much. and what looks like remnants of left over barnacles on outside prop. hub. also said it could be zincs, like I said I ‘am new to this thing and haven’t checked them out yet. any help is greatly appreciated from land lubber till now.

Response:

Hello group, its me again. new to boating first yr. I looked for a reference to this and found none that I could open. I’m getting a noise in my omc 1994 king cobra outdrive, gets quieter when I pick up the outdrive alittle bit and going strait. seems to get louder the more I turn. also some vibration coming from it. do u think it is the universal joints? I greased the gimbal bearing and no different. the boat is docked and I don’t have a trailer so I have to winterize it soon. any ideas. I guy at my dock said it my be barnacles on my oudrive or some on the prop. don’t see anything major some fury growth on outdrive not much. and what looks like remnants of left over barnacles on outside prop. hub. also said it could be zincs, like I said I ‘am new to this thing and haven’t checked them out yet. any help is greatly appreciated from land lubber till now. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< It sounds very much like the problem I had with my ‘88 Cobra.   I have a severe hearing impairment,  but I heard this noise loud & clear.  I’d hear the "knocking" whenever I made a turn.  It turned out to be the U-joint.  I had the boat in for service on the out-drive and assumed the dealer had greased the joints.  Bad thought!!   I had some more work done on it while it was in the shop  so the bill was higher than for just the Joint.   If you’re handy with tools and have the right ones, its not much different that changing a U-joint on a car. However, it was not something I wanted to tackle….  The bill came to just over $400, but he put in a new bellows and shifting modudle, plus re-adjusted all the linkeage.  This was in ‘94 and its been smooth as glass since. Since then,  I’m careful to grease the joints every spring. Good luck,  Norm

Response:

Sport Pilot Proposal

Question:

While sitting around at the hanger discussing the Sport pilot Proposal, one fellow was adamant that the proposal would NOT allow a PPL failing a third class medical to convert to a Sport Pilot and Drivers license "medical". There were several of us that hoped when the time came to lose our third class medical, we could still drive legally and with the Sport Pilot license, continue to fly. Could anyone clarify this for us?  Dick

Response:

While sitting around at the hanger discussing the Sport pilot Proposal, one fellow was adamant that the proposal would NOT allow a PPL failing a third class medical to convert to a Sport Pilot and Drivers license "medical". There were several of us that hoped when the time came to lose our third class medical, we could still drive legally and with the Sport Pilot license, continue to fly. Could anyone clarify this for us?  Dick

My guess is yes, but with two caveats. 1.  Must switch to flying an aircraft which meets the limits set forth for Sport pilot. Two seats, 1232 gross and 115 knot top speed. 2.  Must be able to self certify like all pilots that you are fit to fly before each takeoff. If you can’t get a drivers license, or a 3rd class medical then must fly balloons, gliders, or ultralights. — http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~grunloh

Response:

While sitting around at the hanger discussing the Sport pilot Proposal , one fellow was adamant that the proposal would NOT allow a PPL failing a t hird class medical to convert to a Sport Pilot and Drivers license "medical ". There were several of us that hoped when the time came to lose our thi rd class medical, we could still drive legally and with the Sport Pilot license, continue to fly. Could anyone clarify this for us?  Dick

NPRM page5403 section 17 "Am I phrobited from operating a light-sport aircraft if I have a medical deficiency?"  The answer refers you to a chart right below the question and answer. The chart lists several situations but assuming fixed wing operation holding a valid drivers license it says "You must not act as pilot in command of the aircraft if you know or have reason to know of any medical condition that would make you unable to operate the aircraft in a safe manner." If you failed a third class medical, you (and possibly the FAA) would know of such a condition. Perhaps it would be better to change your pp cert to a sport cert BEFORE you fail the medical and then quit taking them?  Your medical condition would then be between you, your doctor and your conscience.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The chart lists several situations but assuming fixed wing operation holding a valid drivers license it says "You must not act as pilot in command of the aircraft if you know or have reason to know of any medical condition that would make you unable to operate the aircraft in a safe manner." If you failed a third class medical, you (and possibly the FAA) would know of such a condition. I think you are saying here that having "failed a third class medical" automatically means you "know or have reason to know of a medical condition that would make you unable to operate the aircraft in a safe manner." If that’s what you are saying, it’s totally wrong.  It is very well established (and accepted by the FAA, in writing) that you can fail a third class medical and still be able to operate an aircraft safely. If you want citations and quotes, I’ll give them to you.   Perhaps it would be better to change your pp cert to a sport cert BEFORE you fail the medical and then quit taking them? Not necessary. Todd Pattist

Hey.  I’m just an ignorant ultralight pilot.  I don’t know about the existing medical regs because I don’t fly under them.  All I did was quote the passage from the NPRM and try to offer a suggestion that might help. Actually I was hoping I could find something in the NPRM that would give the guys with a medical problem a better break.  If there is something in the existing regs that helps, let them know.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The chart lists several situations but assuming fixed wing operation holding a valid drivers license it says "You must not act as pilot in command of the aircraft if you know or have reason to know of any medical condition that would make you unable to operate the aircraft in a safe manner." If you failed a third class medical, you (and possibly the FAA) would know of such a condition. I think you are saying here that having "failed a third class medical" automatically means you "know or have reason to know of a medical condition that would make you unable to operate the aircraft in a safe manner." If that’s what you are saying, it’s totally wrong.

Susan Gardner once said that Sport Pilot is not for those who cannot pass a 3rd class medical.  It is to help those who cannot afford the costs of thousands of dollars and time to prove they CAN pass the medical. If you know you have low blood sugar and fainting spells, trouble with kidney stones, vision problems, inner ear trouble or any myriad of problems that you know could affect your ability to fly safely, you can’t fly Sport. It’s not important that you failed to pass a 3rd class medical, it’s important why you failed. –Dan   It is very well established (and accepted by the FAA, in writing) that you can fail a third class medical and still be able to operate an aircraft safely. If you want citations and quotes, I’ll give them to you. Perhaps it would be better to change your pp cert to a sport cert BEFORE you fail the medical and then quit taking them? Not necessary. Todd Pattist

– http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~grunloh

Response:

Dick and all, The controlling document for proof of medical fitness for a sport pilot is a valid US state drivers license.  Whether or not you can get a 3rd class medical or not is irrelevant. As has been mentioned, most people who "lose" their medical could actually qualify for at least a 3rd class, but it would take an investment of extra money and time to do it, so they make the decision not to pursue it.  This is not the same as being completely denied. There are actually very few people who are flat-out denied. Anyway, so long as you have a valid US state drivers license, and a doctor has not told you that you can’t drive for medical reasons, you are good to go as a sport pilot.  Any restrictions on your drivers license also carry over to your sport pilot license (such as the requirement for corrective lenses, etc.) Beyond that, a sport pilot will be held to the same standard as all other pilots, where by they are required to "self certify" on any given day, that they are medically able to conduct the flight in a safe manner. Hope this helps. Joe Norris – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – While sitting around at the hanger discussing the Sport pilot Proposal, one fellow was adamant that the proposal would NOT allow a PPL failing a third class medical to convert to a Sport Pilot and Drivers license "medical". There were several of us that hoped when the time came to lose our third class medical, we could still drive legally and with the Sport Pilot license, continue to fly. Could anyone clarify this for us?  Dick

Response:

EAA told me their understanding is that someone who is denied a medical by the FAA is ineligible for Sport Pilot.  It appears that someone who has a shaky medical might be better off letting it expire. Mark

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – While sitting around at the hanger discussing the Sport pilot Proposal , one fellow was adamant that the proposal would NOT allow a PPL failing a t hird class medical to convert to a Sport Pilot and Drivers license "medical ". There were several of us that hoped when the time came to lose our thi rd class medical, we could still drive legally and with the Sport Pilot license, continue to fly. Could anyone clarify this for us?  Dick NPRM page5403 section 17 "Am I phrobited from operating a light-sport aircraft if I have a medical deficiency?"  The answer refers you to a chart right below the question and answer. The chart lists several situations but assuming fixed wing operation holding a valid drivers license it says "You must not act as pilot in command of the aircraft if you know or have reason to know of any medical condition that would make you unable to operate the aircraft in a safe manner." If you failed a third class medical, you (and possibly the FAA) would know of such a condition. Perhaps it would be better to change your pp cert to a sport cert BEFORE you fail the medical and then quit taking them?  Your medical condition would then be between you, your doctor and your conscience.

Response:

Your friend is wrong. Check the FAQ’s on the EAA website. A PPL who’s lost a medical, can fly as a sport pilot after receiving a checkout. The PRIMARY medical requirement for sport pilot is a valid U.S. driver’s license. Mark – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – While sitting around at the hanger discussing the Sport pilot Proposal, one fellow was adamant that the proposal would NOT allow a PPL failing a third class medical to convert to a Sport Pilot and Drivers license "medical". There were several of us that hoped when the time came to lose our third class medical, we could still drive legally and with the Sport Pilot license, continue to fly. Could anyone clarify this for us?  Dick

Response:

class medical to convert to a Sport Pilot and Drivers license "medical ". There were several of us that hoped when the time came to lose our thi rd class medical, we could still drive legally and with the Sport Pilot license, continue to fly. Could anyone clarify this for us?  Dick Perhaps it would be better to change your pp cert to a sport cert

As I understand it, there will be no "conversion" if you are a certified pilot. You just fly with "Sport" privileges with your existing certificate. Just as an ATP with a third class medical has Private Pilot Privileges. Regardless of your certificate, your medical standing determines your flying privileges.

Response:

Anyway, so long as you have a valid US state drivers license.

Go to Tennesee, you don’t even need US citizenship. LOL

Response:

If I use a sport pilot license, and have to follow the restrictions on my drivers license, does that mean I have to use a "right side outside rear view mirror" on my plane if I have a hearing impairment? <G Now THERES a potential market! John

Response:

Are kids getting dumber?

Question:

says… In article

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Kids Today: Dumb and Dumber?  Are America’s students getting dumber? Well, duh! Read the papers, dude! Talk to teachers. Pick up what people are saying: Test scores are dropping like stones in a well. test scores are not dropping — and in fact have either been rising or steady over the past 15 years. "Free Spirit" put in a really good and interesting post there, and has gotten two off-the-cuff responses that are pretty much just reactions to the subject line and first paragraph.  C’mon, folks, go back and READ his post, before I decide y’all are illiterate by some definition  :-) And, hamilton, you usually do much better than this… you get a 0 for today and go back and read his post too and give me a 1 page summary tomorrow  :-D If I give you a one paragraph summary now can I get an A? <BSEG And *you* can’t read *instructions8!!  Tut tut! I said a *one page* summary.  I expect to see it tomorrow. Now run along… Banty  :-)

oh I know it was one of those cloying Readers Digest style ironic self indulgent whiffles — but it was also tedious  – I simply choose to slap at the test score myth whenever it occurs — even if it occurs in a pile of tendentious ironic crap like the original post

Response:

oh I know it was one of those cloying Readers Digest style ironic self indulgent whiffles — but it was also tedious  – I simply choose to slap at the test score myth whenever it occurs — even if it occurs in a pile of tendentious ironic crap like the original post

So much for sparking a long discussion on the fine points of the article!

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – says… In article  Kids Today: Dumb and Dumber?  Are America’s students getting dumber? Well, duh! Read the papers, dude! Talk to teachers. Pick up what people are saying: Test scores are dropping like stones in a well. test scores are not dropping — and in fact have either been rising or steady over the past 15 years. "Free Spirit" put in a really good and interesting post there, and has gotten two off-the-cuff responses that are pretty much just reactions to the subject line and first paragraph.  C’mon, folks, go back and READ his post, before I decide y’all are illiterate by some definition  :-) And, hamilton, you usually do much better than this… you get a 0 for today and go back and read his post too and give me a 1 page summary tomorrow  :-D If I give you a one paragraph summary now can I get an A? <BSEG And *you* can’t read *instructions8!!  Tut tut! I said a *one page* summary.  I expect to see it tomorrow. Now run along… Banty  :-) oh I know it was one of those cloying Readers Digest style ironic self indulgent whiffles — but it was also tedious  – I simply choose to slap at the test score myth whenever it occurs — even if it occurs in a pile of tendentious ironic crap like the original post

Did you read it?  Of those who actually have, you’re quite alone in your assessment.  Methinks you didn’t until my response and you’re backtracking  :-) Banty

Response:

*huge snip* Yes, they are.  I have the solution.   Would you like to hear it? * * * T U R N   O F F   T H E   T V  * * * CM "I was going to buy a copy of The Power of Positive Thinking, and then I thought: What good would that do?"

Response:

*huge snip* Yes, they are.  I have the solution.   Would you like to hear it? * * * T U R N   O F F   T H E   T V  * * *

Actually the only reason they aren’t getting dumber more rapidly is TV. People used to only know what their parents told them, and that was the most unbelievable pack of confabulated garbage you EVER heard! Those kind of people believed the Catholic Church and worked all their lives building it cathedrals, they were so deluded!! Steve

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – *huge snip* Yes, they are.  I have the solution.   Would you like to hear it? * * * T U R N   O F F   T H E   T V  * * * Actually the only reason they aren’t getting dumber more rapidly is TV. People used to only know what their parents told them, and that was the most unbelievable pack of confabulated garbage you EVER heard! Those kind of people believed the Catholic Church and worked all their lives building it cathedrals, they were so deluded!! Steve

I see.  And can you tell  me what golden gems of wisdom people get from the likes of garbage like The Drew Carey Show, Frazier, etc., etc.,. Granted the Discovery Channel, The History Channel, PBS, etc., have very good and educational shows.  When I watch TV (a couple of times a month) that is what I watch. The problem is that the 30+ hours the average child spends with it’s eyes glued to the tube is watching crap which does nothing to improve their mind.. "I was going to buy a copy of The Power of Positive Thinking, and then I thought: What good would that do?"

Response:

Good job Calico. I wish more parents understand the dangers that TV represents. When I was growing up in India in 70s there was no TV. We used to have so much time playing outside our home with other kids, exploring the town and what not. I think the real education comes from interacting with other real people, not from imaginary characters on TV. While it is true that some channels provide good programming, but those can’t be the sole source of knowledge. There is something to the written word that you can get from a TV. TV is one major modern appliance that has drastically changed the way we spend our time. This idiot box puts you in a zombie mode. The kids fail to develop critical thinking ability by watching too much TV. Read books by Jane M. Healy. We don’t have a TV at home. I have a 3 year old son and I think it is wonderful. Ravi

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Good job Calico. I wish more parents understand the dangers that TV represents. When I was growing up in India in 70s there was no TV. We used to have so much time playing outside our home with other kids, exploring the town and what not. I think the real education comes from interacting with other real people, not from imaginary characters on TV. While it is true that some channels provide good programming, but those can’t be the sole source of knowledge. There is something to the written word that you can get from a TV. TV is one major modern appliance that has drastically changed the way we spend our time. This idiot box puts you in a zombie mode. The kids fail to develop critical thinking ability by watching too much TV. Read books by Jane M. Healy. We don’t have a TV at home. I have a 3 year old son and I think it is wonderful. Ravi

I see that you are a parent who cares about  the intellectual development of your son.  I am sure that he will turn out to be a son to be proud of. You are right, I believe that human interaction not only teaches us about life, but teaches us how to get along with others, which is a real problem in the world today.  I read a lot (non-fiction mostly) and find it much more satisfying that sitting like a zombie in front of a television.   A book that you might find interesting is "Four Arguements For The Elimination of  Televsion" by Jerry Mander. It is an old book but  I  know that Amazon.com has it (not intended to be a plug for them.) I think you would enjoy it very much. Thank you for your wonderful reply. CM "I was going to buy a copy of The Power of Positive Thinking, and then I thought: What good would that do?"

Response:

Let me get this straight.  Am I taking the title of this book to be too literal or are there people in the world that really believe we should rid ourselves of our television sets? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Good job Calico. I wish more parents understand the dangers that TV represents. When I was growing up in India in 70s there was no TV. We used to have so much time playing outside our home with other kids, exploring the town and what not. I think the real education comes from interacting with other real people, not from imaginary characters on TV. While it is true that some channels provide good programming, but those can’t be the sole source of knowledge. There is something to the written word that you can get from a TV. TV is one major modern appliance that has drastically changed the way we spend our time. This idiot box puts you in a zombie mode. The kids fail to develop critical thinking ability by watching too much TV. Read books by Jane M. Healy. We don’t have a TV at home. I have a 3 year old son and I think it is wonderful. Ravi I see that you are a parent who cares about  the intellectual development of your son.  I am sure that he will turn out to be a son to be proud of. You are right, I believe that human interaction not only teaches us about life, but teaches us how to get along with others, which is a real problem in the world today.  I read a lot (non-fiction mostly) and find it much more satisfying that sitting like a zombie in front of a television.   A book that you might find interesting is "Four Arguements For The Elimination of  Televsion" by Jerry Mander. It is an old book but  I  know that Amazon.com has it (not intended to be a plug for them.) I think you would enjoy it very much. Thank you for your wonderful reply. CM "I was going to buy a copy of The Power of Positive Thinking, and then I thought: What good would that do?"

Response:

oh I know it was one of those cloying Readers Digest style ironic self indulgent whiffles — but it was also tedious  – I simply choose to slap at the test score myth whenever it occurs — even if it occurs in a pile of tendentious ironic crap like the original post So much for sparking a long discussion on the fine points of the article!

you saw ‘fine points’  LOL — it was the same old ‘it was ever thus’ sort of riff

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – says… In article  Kids Today: Dumb and Dumber?  Are America’s students getting dumber? Well, duh! Read the papers, dude! Talk to teachers. Pick up what people are saying: Test scores are dropping like stones in a well. test scores are not dropping — and in fact have either been rising or steady over the past 15 years. "Free Spirit" put in a really good and interesting post there, and has gotten two off-the-cuff responses that are pretty much just reactions to the subject line and first paragraph.  C’mon, folks, go back and READ his post, before I decide y’all are illiterate by some definition  :-) And, hamilton, you usually do much better than this… you get a 0 for today and go back and read his post too and give me a 1 page summary tomorrow  :-D If I give you a one paragraph summary now can I get an A? <BSEG And *you* can’t read *instructions8!!  Tut tut! I said a *one page* summary.  I expect to see it tomorrow. Now run along… Banty  :-) oh I know it was one of those cloying Readers Digest style ironic self indulgent whiffles — but it was also tedious  – I simply choose to slap at the test score myth whenever it occurs — even if it occurs in a pile of tendentious ironic crap like the original post Did you read it?  Of those who actually have, you’re quite alone in your assessment.  Methinks you didn’t until my response and you’re backtracking  :-) Banty

I read it — it was classic Readers Digest cleverness — or Paul Harvey wit.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – oh I know it was one of those cloying Readers Digest style ironic self indulgent whiffles — but it was also tedious  – I simply choose to slap at the test score myth whenever it occurs — even if it occurs in a pile of tendentious ironic crap like the original post Did you read it?  Of those who actually have, you’re quite alone in your assessment.  Methinks you didn’t until my response and you’re backtracking  :-) Banty I read it — it was classic Readers Digest cleverness — or Paul Harvey wit.

No, you don’t seem to have read it.  If you had, then you would know the rest of the story. — Timothy I. Murphy  (T. I. M.  don’t ya just love it) And now for the quote of the day: TANSTAAFL- Robert A. Heinlein

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Kids Today: Dumb and Dumber?  Are America’s students getting dumber? Well, duh! Read the papers, dude! Talk to teachers. Pick up what people are saying: Test scores are dropping like stones in a well. test scores are not dropping — and in fact have either been rising or steady over the past 15 years. "Free Spirit" put in a really good and interesting post there, and has gotten two off-the-cuff responses that are pretty much just reactions to the subject line and first paragraph.  C’mon, folks, go back and READ his post, before I decide y’all are illiterate by some definition  :-) And, hamilton, you usually do much better than this… you get a 0 for today and go back and read his post too and give me a 1 page summary tomorrow  :-D

If I give you a one paragraph summary now can I get an A? <BSEG — Double your pleasure, double your fun But give me Dentyne,not Doublemint gum

Response:

says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Kids Today: Dumb and Dumber?  Are America’s students getting dumber? Well, duh! Read the papers, dude! Talk to teachers. Pick up what people are saying: Test scores are dropping like stones in a well. test scores are not dropping — and in fact have either been rising or steady over the past 15 years. "Free Spirit" put in a really good and interesting post there, and has gotten two off-the-cuff responses that are pretty much just reactions to the subject line and first paragraph.  C’mon, folks, go back and READ his post, before I decide y’all are illiterate by some definition  :-) And, hamilton, you usually do much better than this… you get a 0 for today and go back and read his post too and give me a 1 page summary tomorrow  :-D If I give you a one paragraph summary now can I get an A? <BSEG

And *you* can’t read *instructions8!!  Tut tut! I said a *one page* summary.  I expect to see it tomorrow. Now run along… Banty  :-)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Kids Today: Dumb and Dumber?  Are America’s students getting dumber? Well, duh! Read the papers, dude! Talk to teachers. Pick up what people are saying: Test scores are dropping like stones in a well. test scores are not dropping — and in fact have either been rising or steady over the past 15 years.

You did read the whole post, didn’t you?

Response:

We just love jumping to conclusions and as soon as we do – there is no need to read on is there <g It is the age of assumption and we all know what assume stands for

I also think it has become the age of the short attention span.  If it ain’t in two paragraphs or less it don’t gonna get read. -Aula

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Kids Today: Dumb and Dumber?    Are America’s students getting dumber? Well, duh! Read the papers, dude! Talk to teachers. Pick up what people are saying: Test scores are dropping like stones in a well. test scores are not dropping — and in fact have either been rising or steady over the past 15 years.

"Free Spirit" put in a really good and interesting post there, and has gotten two off-the-cuff responses that are pretty much just reactions to the subject line and first paragraph.  C’mon, folks, go back and READ his post, before I decide y’all are illiterate by some definition  :-) And, hamilton, you usually do much better than this… you get a 0 for today and go back and read his post too and give me a 1 page summary tomorrow  :-D Banty

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We just love jumping to conclusions and as soon as we do – there is no need to read on is there <g It is the age of assumption and we all know what assume stands for I also think it has become the age of the short attention span.  If it ain’t in two paragraphs or less it don’t gonna get read. -Aula

That’s why I *assigned* it to hamilton LOL!  Just like my son – if it ain’t for a book report it ain’t gonna get read! Banty

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We just love jumping to conclusions and as soon as we do – there is no need to read on is there <g It is the age of assumption and we all know what assume stands for I also think it has become the age of the short attention span.  If it ain’t in two paragraphs or less it don’t gonna get read. -Aula

Not entirely true, I read it, and saved it. — Timothy I. Murphy  (T. I. M.  don’t ya just love it) And now for the quote of the day: TANSTAAFL- Robert A. Heinlein

Response:

In other words, before we mount our steeds, draw our swords, and yell "Charge!" let’s be sure we have an enemy. Otherwise we might thunder off in all directions, swinging at windmills and jousting with cows like Don Quixote. And I’m too old for that. Let the kids do it.

Absolutely incredible post. Archived too- so you’re gonna be immortal. — Timothy I. Murphy  (T. I. M.  don’t ya just love it) And now for the quote of the day: TANSTAAFL- Robert A. Heinlein

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Kids Today: Dumb and Dumber?  Are America’s students getting dumber? Well, duh! Read the papers, dude! Talk to teachers. Pick up what people are saying: Test scores are dropping like stones in a well. Illiteracy is rising like a hot-air balloon. Textbooks are being dumbed down. Tests are being dumbed down. Everything’s being dumbed down. Ah, but what’s the other thing you hear from stodgy old codgers like me? "I can’t set my digital watch." "I don’t know how to program my VCR." "I need a fourth-grader to help me."

Hmm- having read the responses- I’m thinking none of them read past here. Maybe adults *are* getting dumber. — Timothy I. Murphy  (T. I. M.  don’t ya just love it) And now for the quote of the day: TANSTAAFL- Robert A. Heinlein

Response:

Reading is the most important thing for kids to learn, thats for sure.

I completely agree, unfortunately kids who score lower on standardized tests due to lesser reading skills are dubbed as "dumber" than other kids, when that usually isn’t the case, and they just need more help in that area. Sadly enough, many of the teachers in this country are given neither the time or the skills to identify this. How long were children with autism labeled as retarded and stupid before someone took the time to discover that a large number of autistic children are extremely gifted but have issues that prevent them from demonstrating it? Standardized tests try to fit kids into a certain mold, and if you don’t fit, then you’re not considered intelligent. When are we going to realize that we are not clones of one another, therefore the mold theory isn’t ever going to work? Sherrie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A whole bunch of stuff I snipped out here Why? Because a large percentage of the test is reading based. I agree with this wholeheartedly.  I have a 13 yr old son, who had meningitis as a 6 week old infant.  This left him with hearing impairment due to nerve damage. When in second grade, in our public schools here, the kids are given a test , if they score a certain score, then they are referred for another test, for our so called "gifted program" My older son was in this program, but considering my second son had hearing problems, and therefore speech problems, I did not even consider he would be offered this second test. He was in 2nd grade, and having started off school in Special Ed, he had not yet learned to read, really. He did score (somehow) high on the first test, then took the second test. This was more of an "intelligence" type test. Some of the test was abstract drawings, matching figures with how they would look if turned around, things like that. Some was straight math type, and of course we had the reading portion. He scored High enough on two parts of the test, actually very high to get into the program, but had the score of 20 on the reading portion. They suggested this ment he had a severe learning disability, and needed mental intervention.  HELLO??? He actually has done quite well, once he learned how to read, around the end of third grade he caught up with every one, and has a tenth grade reading level now. He was not classified as Special Ed when he took their "test" so they of course didn’t know his history, but according to the testors, he never should have been able to score "gifted" levels in the logic or computation parts of the test, and basically retarded on the reading. Reading is the most important thing for kids to learn, thats for sure. Sandi

Response:

A whole bunch of stuff I snipped out here Why? Because a large percentage of the test is reading based.

I agree with this wholeheartedly.  I have a 13 yr old son, who had meningitis as a 6 week old infant.  This left him with hearing impairment due to nerve damage. When in second grade, in our public schools here, the kids are given a test , if they score a certain score, then they are referred for another test, for our so called "gifted program" My older son was in this program, but considering my second son had hearing problems, and therefore speech problems, I did not even consider he would be offered this second test. He was in 2nd grade, and having started off school in Special Ed, he had not yet learned to read, really. He did score (somehow) high on the first test, then took the second test. This was more of an "intelligence" type test. Some of the test was abstract drawings, matching figures with how they would look if turned around, things like that. Some was straight math type, and of course we had the reading portion. He scored High enough on two parts of the test, actually very high to get into the program, but had the score of 20 on the reading portion. They suggested this ment he had a severe learning disability, and needed mental intervention.  HELLO??? He actually has done quite well, once he learned how to read, around the end of third grade he caught up with every one, and has a tenth grade reading level now. He was not classified as Special Ed when he took their "test" so they of course didn’t know his history, but according to the testors, he never should have been able to score "gifted" levels in the logic or computation parts of the test, and basically retarded on the reading. Reading is the most important thing for kids to learn, thats for sure. Sandi

Response:

 Kids Today: Dumb and Dumber?    Are America’s students getting dumber? Well, duh! Read the papers, dude! Talk to teachers. Pick up what people are saying: Test scores are dropping like stones in a well.

test scores are not dropping — and in fact have either been rising or steady over the past 15 years.

Response:

Standardized tests, such as the SATs and ACTs, are a joke. They simply test a students ability to regurgitate information. You cannot base a student’s actual intelligence on these tests. If you want to know how quickly and logically a child’s brain functions have them take an IQ test. Many students will score very high on a SAT and score average at best on an IQ test. Even the dumbest of animals can memorize desired responses to issued commands. The US military uses a test called the ASVAB that tests the recruits’ speed of thought, and their ability to adapt learned skills to unusual situations, rather than how to pick the subject from a sentence, or how to solve a simple algebraic equation. Many of the questions are complex riddles that take logical thinking sequences and applications to solve. The concept is not WHAT you know, but how well you can take the knowledge you’ve gained and apply it to a variety of situations. Another note on ACT tests: Generally students who excel in English related areas of study score higher on the test than students with mathematical and science aptitude. Why? Because a large percentage of the test is reading based. Even the questions in the math and science sections require a great deal of reading and interpretation. Students who rely heavily on the left brain (the analytical side) find the questions, which are geared toward those who rely heavily on their right brain (the creative side), to be illogical and hard to understand. The end result is biased test scores, where students who are more creative appear "smarter" than the more analytical students. The US grade, middle and high school systems promote a curriculum that produce high test scores, and knowledge that is virtually useless in college, where a higher level of independent thinking is sought. Very few schools adequately prepare students for college. Kids are not dumber, the rules of higher education and exactly what employers are looking for have changed, and our school systems are simply lagging behind.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Kids Today: Dumb and Dumber?  Are America’s students getting dumber? Well, duh! Read the papers, dude! Talk to teachers. Pick up what people are saying: Test scores are dropping like stones in a well. test scores are not dropping — and in fact have either been rising or steady over the past 15 years.

Response:

Tinnitus mentioned in audiology text!

Question:

I received a copy today of what may be the most used audiology textbook, at least in the US. I was interested to see if tinnitus is beginning to be discussed in any detail. Sadly, the 464-page year 2000 text has about two pages that discuss tinnitus. Treatment methods described briefly are three: masking ("Most patients have given disappointing reports on the effects of tinnitus maskers"), biofeedback (two sentences), and tinnitus retraining therapy. TRT receives the longest commentary: "Tinnitus Retraining Therapy (TRT) has been shown to lprovide patients with a means to habituate to the presence of their tinnitus (Jastreboff & Hazell, 1998). This therapy is based upon the observation that the auditory system’s contribution to the annoyance of tinnitus may be secondary to that of the limbic (emotional) and the autonomic nervous systems. TRT requires a substantial amount of direct work with patients, but when done properly it yields a success rate for reducing tinnitus annoyance greater than 80 percent." There you have it: all that some audiologists ever learn about tinnitus. — Jim Chinnis / Warrenton, Virginia, USA Join the American Tinnitus Assn: 800-634-8978 or http://www.ata.org Meniere’s? See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MenieresDG All comments are my personal opinions and should not be construed to represent the opinions of anyone else or any organization.

Response:

jchin…@SPAMalum.mit.edu (Jim Chinnis) wrote in part: >There you have it: all that some audiologists ever learn about tinnitus.

Sorry–I forgot to include the reference: Martin, FN, and Clark, JG. Introduction to Audiology (Seventh Edition). Boston: Allyn and Bacon, 2000. — Jim Chinnis / Warrenton, Virginia, USA Join the American Tinnitus Assn: 800-634-8978 or http://www.ata.org Meniere’s? See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MenieresDG All comments are my personal opinions and should not be construed to represent the opinions of anyone else or any organization.

Response:

On Fri, 10 Aug 2001 03:18:09 GMT, jchin…@SPAMalum.mit.edu (Jim Chinnis) wrote: >This therapy is based upon the observation that the >auditory system’s contribution to the annoyance of tinnitus may be >secondary to that of the limbic (emotional) and the autonomic nervous >systems. TRT requires a substantial amount of direct work with patients, >but when done properly it yields a success rate for reducing tinnitus >annoyance greater than 80 percent."

Operate words: "may be". What an offense to our educational system that somehow, no doubt due to the ATA and their strong preference for TRT, that they somehow got a leading publisher to state something definitively which is not the case at all. It doesn’t say "may yields." It states that TRT "yields" a success rate of greater than 80 percent. That is bullshit and you know it. But you’re happy to see it in there. And you have no problem with it. It speaks volumes. >There you have it: all that some audiologists ever learn about tinnitus.

I’d rather see them learn from experience than learn from lies.

Response:

"Thomas Crick" <tscrick@ yahoo.com> wrote in message news:09s6nt477mmblmqc2tcn3hc1q95adet0rc@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> On Fri, 10 Aug 2001 03:18:09 GMT, jchin…@SPAMalum.mit.edu (Jim > Chinnis) wrote: > >This therapy is based upon the observation that the > >auditory system’s contribution to the annoyance of tinnitus may be > >secondary to that of the limbic (emotional) and the autonomic nervous > >systems. TRT requires a substantial amount of direct work with patients, > >but when done properly it yields a success rate for reducing tinnitus > >annoyance greater than 80 percent." > Operate words: "may be". What an offense to our educational system > that somehow, no doubt due to the ATA and their strong preference for > TRT, that they somehow got a leading publisher to state something > definitively which is not the case at all. > It doesn’t say "may yields." It states that TRT "yields" a success > rate of greater than 80 percent. That is bullshit and you know it. But > you’re happy to see it in there. And you have no problem with it. It > speaks volumes. > >There you have it: all that some audiologists ever learn about tinnitus. > I’d rather see them learn from experience than learn from lies.

Quite simply… you’re wrong Simpson!

Response:

"Jim Chinnis" <jchin…@SPAMalum.mit.edu> wrote in message

news:4lj6ntolomgrimhiv045ahmiugs1g8ee8v@4ax.com… > There you have it: all that some audiologists ever learn about tinnitus.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I disagree.  I have NEVER met ONE audiologist who didn’t thoroughly understand tinnitus.  I go back to 1957 working with audiologists in many cities.  How about you, Jim, what’s YOUR experience with audiologists? The fact is that there are additional "classic" textbooks about tinnitus, which audiologists also have to study.  One is by Jack Vernon. That’s a funny scenario–getting a masters or Ph.D. to become an audiologist based on reading one book you just found?  You would not believe how hard it is to get through the graduate study and clinical training to become an audiologist. Mary Holmes Dague

Response:

"Mary Holmes Dague" <dag…@epix.net> wrote in part: >I disagree.  I have NEVER met ONE audiologist who didn’t thoroughly >understand tinnitus.  I go back to 1957 working with audiologists in many >cities.  How about you, Jim, what’s YOUR experience with audiologists? The >fact is that there are additional "classic" textbooks about tinnitus, which >audiologists also have to study.  One is by Jack Vernon. That’s a funny >scenario–getting a masters or Ph.D. to become an audiologist based on >reading one book you just found?  You would not believe how hard it is to >get through the graduate study and clinical training to become an >audiologist. >Mary Holmes Dague

Mary, I received the textbook yesterday and eagerly searched it to see if tinnitus was beginning to be addressed in basic audiology texts. That’s all. I was disappointed by the tiny–almost non-existent–coverage, and by the shallowness of it. I was a good friend of Susan Moreland, an audiologist who shepherded this group before her tragic death. She wrote about the pathetic state of training of audiologists wrt tinnitus. At the time of her death, she was trying to produce notes for a course on tinnitus for audiologists. Jack Vernon’s book is terrific, but it is not an audiology text. I am very doubtful that a typical MS audiologist would have studied it. Most audiologists that folks run into have virtually no training in tinnitus. Some have taken an interest in tinnitus treatment and educated themselves further on tinnitus. A few others, particularly those with research degrees (PhDs), are tinnitus experts. There are plenty of exceptions to this sorry state of affairs. The third audiologist I saw in my own quest for help was an exception, having severe tinnitus herself! She was a substantial help. Unfortunately, she has retired. — Jim Chinnis / Warrenton, Virginia, USA Join the American Tinnitus Assn: 800-634-8978 or http://www.ata.org Meniere’s? See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MenieresDG All comments are my personal opinions and should not be construed to represent the opinions of anyone else or any organization.

Response:

<<It doesn’t say "may yields." It states that TRT "yields" a success rate of greater than 80 percent. That is bullshit and you know it. But you’re happy to see it in there. And you have no problem with it. It speaks volumes. >> I agree completely…

Response:

<<Quite simply… you’re wrong Simpson!>> try again,  jackass Jimmy Hewitt, are you that paranoid?

Response:

Medical tests usually only stand up under medical rules but the same thing is not allowed to apply for Natural or Homeopathic remedies. They do "fair" tests with their rules to make sure it all fails. "Thomas Crick" <tscrick@ yahoo.com> wrote in message news:09s6nt477mmblmqc2tcn3hc1q95adet0rc@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> On Fri, 10 Aug 2001 03:18:09 GMT, jchin…@SPAMalum.mit.edu (Jim > Chinnis) wrote: > >This therapy is based upon the observation that the > >auditory system’s contribution to the annoyance of tinnitus may be > >secondary to that of the limbic (emotional) and the autonomic nervous > >systems. TRT requires a substantial amount of direct work with patients, > >but when done properly it yields a success rate for reducing tinnitus > >annoyance greater than 80 percent." > Operate words: "may be". What an offense to our educational system > that somehow, no doubt due to the ATA and their strong preference for > TRT, that they somehow got a leading publisher to state something > definitively which is not the case at all. > It doesn’t say "may yields." It states that TRT "yields" a success > rate of greater than 80 percent. That is bullshit and you know it. But > you’re happy to see it in there. And you have no problem with it. It > speaks volumes. > >There you have it: all that some audiologists ever learn about tinnitus. > I’d rather see them learn from experience than learn from lies.

Response:

jchin…@SPAMalum.mit.edu (Jim Chinnis) wrote in message <news:4lj6ntolomgrimhiv045ahmiugs1g8ee8v@4ax.com>… > I received a copy today of what may be the most used audiology textbook, > at least in the US. I was interested to see if tinnitus is beginning to > be discussed in any detail. Sadly, the 464-page year 2000 text has about > two pages that discuss tinnitus. > Treatment methods described briefly are three: masking ("Most patients > have given disappointing reports on the effects of tinnitus maskers"), > biofeedback (two sentences), and tinnitus retraining therapy. TRT > receives the longest commentary:

"Jastreboff may say TRT’s the best thing since sliced bread but I haven’t seen any scientific evidence."" – Dr. Robert Levine of the Massachusetts Eye and EarInfirmary/Massachusetts General Hospital. 1999]’ "It’s very expensive, long term, and has had limited success," – Dr. Anil K. Lalwani of the University of California San Francisco Department of Otolaryngology-Head and Neck Surgery. 1999 "Much is made of Jastreboff ‘neurophysiological model. But the model itself really seems to be little more than a schematic representation of the mechanisms of hearing, that are already well accepted. THere is little new in it that is specific to perception of and reaction totinnitus" – Dr. Russ Coles, Royal National Institute for the Deaf, UK, RNID 2001 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> There you have it: all that some audiologists ever learn about tinnitus.

Response:

What say U Cricky?… LOL! "BlueM0ZARK" <bluem0z…@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20010810112328.23081.00003585@ng-ba1.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> <<Quite simply… you’re wrong Simpson!>> > try again,  jackass Jimmy Hewitt, are you that paranoid?

Response:

ALways wrong…go away..you are a pest. read the posting paths…not the same direction. "WrongAgain" <wr…@again.com> wrote in message

news:DV%c7.5369$6c.156273@typhoon.kc.rr.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> What say U Cricky?… LOL! > "BlueM0ZARK" <bluem0z…@aol.com> wrote in message > news:20010810112328.23081.00003585@ng-ba1.aol.com… > > <<Quite simply… you’re wrong Simpson!>> > > try again,  jackass Jimmy Hewitt, are you that paranoid?

Response:

You are one tough monkey Lixative… ROTFLMFAO!!!!! "Larry Lix" <Larry…@yahoo.calm.dn> wrote in message

news:je0d7.50891$jA2.4654691@news20.bellglobal.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> ALways wrong…go away..you are a pest. read the posting paths…not the > same direction. > "WrongAgain" <wr…@again.com> wrote in message > news:DV%c7.5369$6c.156273@typhoon.kc.rr.com… > > What say U Cricky?… LOL! > > "BlueM0ZARK" <bluem0z…@aol.com> wrote in message > > news:20010810112328.23081.00003585@ng-ba1.aol.com… > > > <<Quite simply… you’re wrong Simpson!>> > > > try again,  jackass Jimmy Hewitt, are you that paranoid?

Response:

There’s no place like home….there’s no place like home…there’s…… "WrongAgain" <wr…@again.com> wrote in message

news:tM0d7.5373$6c.156320@typhoon.kc.rr.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> You are one tough monkey Lixative… ROTFLMFAO!!!!! > "Larry Lix" <Larry…@yahoo.calm.dn> wrote in message > news:je0d7.50891$jA2.4654691@news20.bellglobal.com… > > ALways wrong…go away..you are a pest. read the posting paths…not the > > same direction. > > "WrongAgain" <wr…@again.com> wrote in message > > news:DV%c7.5369$6c.156273@typhoon.kc.rr.com… > > > What say U Cricky?… LOL! > > > "BlueM0ZARK" <bluem0z…@aol.com> wrote in message > > > news:20010810112328.23081.00003585@ng-ba1.aol.com… > > > > <<Quite simply… you’re wrong Simpson!>> > > > > try again,  jackass Jimmy Hewitt, are you that paranoid?

Response:

LOL… You can’t compete with me can you asshole boy? I LUV BLUE!!! LOL!!!!!! "Larry Lix" <Larry…@yahoo.calm.dn> wrote in message

news:DR0d7.54505$5c.3990157@news20.bellglobal.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> There’s no place like home….there’s no place like home…there’s…… > "WrongAgain" <wr…@again.com> wrote in message > news:tM0d7.5373$6c.156320@typhoon.kc.rr.com… > > You are one tough monkey Lixative… ROTFLMFAO!!!!! > > "Larry Lix" <Larry…@yahoo.calm.dn> wrote in message > > news:je0d7.50891$jA2.4654691@news20.bellglobal.com… > > > ALways wrong…go away..you are a pest. read the posting paths…not the > > > same direction. > > > "WrongAgain" <wr…@again.com> wrote in message > > > news:DV%c7.5369$6c.156273@typhoon.kc.rr.com… > > > > What say U Cricky?… LOL! > > > > "BlueM0ZARK" <bluem0z…@aol.com> wrote in message > > > > news:20010810112328.23081.00003585@ng-ba1.aol.com… > > > > > <<Quite simply… you’re wrong Simpson!>> > > > > > try again,  jackass Jimmy Hewitt, are you that paranoid?

Response:

I can’t compete… I can’t compete…I can’t compete!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ! !!!!!!!! "Larry Lix" <Larry…@yahoo.calm.dn> wrote in message

news:DR0d7.54505$5c.3990157@news20.bellglobal.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> There’s no place like home….there’s no place like home…there’s…… > "WrongAgain" <wr…@again.com> wrote in message > news:tM0d7.5373$6c.156320@typhoon.kc.rr.com… > > You are one tough monkey Lixative… ROTFLMFAO!!!!! > > "Larry Lix" <Larry…@yahoo.calm.dn> wrote in message > > news:je0d7.50891$jA2.4654691@news20.bellglobal.com… > > > ALways wrong…go away..you are a pest. read the posting paths…not the > > > same direction. > > > "WrongAgain" <wr…@again.com> wrote in message > > > news:DV%c7.5369$6c.156273@typhoon.kc.rr.com… > > > > What say U Cricky?… LOL! > > > > "BlueM0ZARK" <bluem0z…@aol.com> wrote in message > > > > news:20010810112328.23081.00003585@ng-ba1.aol.com… > > > > > <<Quite simply… you’re wrong Simpson!>> > > > > > try again,  jackass Jimmy Hewitt, are you that paranoid?

Response:

Hi Lixative… how tough are you… LOL!!!!!!! Answer? Let’s meet!!! "Larry Lix" <Larry…@yahoo.calm.dn> wrote in message

news:DR0d7.54505$5c.3990157@news20.bellglobal.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> There’s no place like home….there’s no place like home…there’s…… > "WrongAgain" <wr…@again.com> wrote in message > news:tM0d7.5373$6c.156320@typhoon.kc.rr.com… > > You are one tough monkey Lixative… ROTFLMFAO!!!!! > > "Larry Lix" <Larry…@yahoo.calm.dn> wrote in message > > news:je0d7.50891$jA2.4654691@news20.bellglobal.com… > > > ALways wrong…go away..you are a pest. read the posting paths…not the > > > same direction. > > > "WrongAgain" <wr…@again.com> wrote in message > > > news:DV%c7.5369$6c.156273@typhoon.kc.rr.com… > > > > What say U Cricky?… LOL! > > > > "BlueM0ZARK" <bluem0z…@aol.com> wrote in message > > > > news:20010810112328.23081.00003585@ng-ba1.aol.com… > > > > > <<Quite simply… you’re wrong Simpson!>> > > > > > try again,  jackass Jimmy Hewitt, are you that paranoid?

Response:

In article <4np7nt47qosbts1f6im07h8aflu05r6…@4ax.com>, jchin…@SPAMalum.mit.edu (Jim Chinnis) writes: >Mary, I received the textbook yesterday and eagerly searched it to see >if tinnitus was beginning to be addressed in basic audiology texts.

I think it is a myth that is spread on AST that ENTs and audiologists don’t know about tinnitus.  My experience is that they do. I’ve been to three of each and found five of the six very helpful in explaining and understanding tinnitus.  I learned much more from them than I learned by following AST closely for quite sometime.  I was disatisfied with the first ENT, not because of his lack of knowledge, but because of his personality and the manner in which he related to me.  He may have been quite knowledgable, but if he couldn’t convey it to me, he was useless.  The audiologists knew how to do tinnitus matching and seemed well versed in tinnitus. A basic audiology text would only give an brief overall view of audiology and wouldn’t be expected to go much into specialized areas.  My psychology 101 text was simply an introduction to the field, while the many courses that I took subsequently delved into the advanced areas.  And then there is graduate work where the courses are even more specialized.  It’s my understanding that a graduate degree is essential in audiology. Ginny

Response:

ginn…@aol.com (GinnyK2) wrote in part: >A basic audiology text would only give an brief overall view of audiology and >wouldn’t be expected to go much into specialized areas.

I don’t consider tinnitus a rare affliction. It seems that two pages out of 400 plus in a standard audiology text is insufficient. I also question whether a patient who is not an expert in tinnitus can judge that an audiologist is on top of the field. — Jim Chinnis / Warrenton, Virginia, USA Join the American Tinnitus Assn: 800-634-8978 or http://www.ata.org Meniere’s? See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MenieresDG All comments are my personal opinions and should not be construed to represent the opinions of anyone else or any organization.

Response:

"Jim Chinnis" <jchin…@SPAMalum.mit.edu> wrote in message

news:n7rantkde2t4u8fe3ohncdl97lflg6c7gk@4ax.com… > ginn…@aol.com (GinnyK2) wrote in part: > >A basic audiology text would only give an brief overall view of audiology and > >wouldn’t be expected to go much into specialized areas.

~~~~~~~~~~~~ Why don’t you complain to the editors,Jim? You Do understand that a certified audiologist must have at least a masters degree and many have a Ph.D.  You must, as Ginny says, pass strictly supervised clinical service before you can become certified.  Anyone who has a CCC-A should be highly qualified to deal with tinnitus. If, in the post to me, you believed I was referring to the new Vernon/Tabachnick Sanders book, I was not.  That was written for laymen as was a previous book by Jack Vernon.  But if memory serves, Jack did write a textbook for specialists in audiology and otology about tinnitus a very long time ago.  I’m sure you will correct me if I am wrong about that.  If so, there are other textbooks, not written for laypeople, but for otologists and audiologists. ~~~ …whether a patient who is not an expert in tinnitus can judge > that an audiologist is on top of the field.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Excuse me?  Are you referring to Ginny?  Me?  Yourself?  People who have had tinnitus and/or hearing impairment a long time can tell whether the audiologist is on top of the field. Equipment changes;  ideas change.  If the audiologist isn’t keeping up, I could quickly ascertain that.  I haven’t just been lucky all my life; I’ve found the best wherever I’ve lived, and traveled some distance when necessary to be with the best.  Have a little faith in the power of one’s participation in one’s own healthcare. Mary

Response:

In article <n7rantkde2t4u8fe3ohncdl97lflg6c…@4ax.com>, jchin…@SPAMalum.mit.edu (Jim Chinnis) writes: >I don’t consider tinnitus a rare affliction. It seems that two pages out of >400 plus in a standard audiology text is insufficient.

It’s hard to say, as I would think that in order for someone to have expertise in tinnitus, he or she would have to have expertise in hearing and all its related dysfunctions, as well. >I also question whether a patient who is not an expert in tinnitus can judge >that an audiologist is on top of the field.

and >The third audiologist I saw in my own quest for help was an exception, having >severe tinnitus herself!  She was a substantial help.

Neither of us is a tinnitus expert, but we both judged our audiologists from the patient perspective according to our own assessments of degree of expertise and ability to be helpful.  Whether it is tinnitus or any other ailment, I think it is important for the patient to be ultimately responsible for his own health care decisions.  Probably most of us judge a professional based on reputation among his esteemed colleagues and reputation among his patients, as well as our own experiences with him. Ginny

Response:

ahhhhhhh….shucks!..thanx Mar! LOL "Mary Holmes Dague" <dag…@epix.net> wrote in message news:ZKfd7.1061$KD2.920653@news1.epix.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Jim Chinnis" <jchin…@SPAMalum.mit.edu> wrote in message > news:n7rantkde2t4u8fe3ohncdl97lflg6c7gk@4ax.com… > > ginn…@aol.com (GinnyK2) wrote in part: > > >A basic audiology text would only give an brief overall view of audiology > and > > >wouldn’t be expected to go much into specialized areas. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Why don’t you complain to the editors,Jim? You Do understand that a > certified audiologist must have at least a masters degree and many have a > Ph.D.  You must, as Ginny says, pass strictly supervised clinical service > before you can become certified.  Anyone who has a CCC-A should be highly > qualified to deal with tinnitus. > If, in the post to me, you believed I was referring to the new > Vernon/Tabachnick Sanders book, I was not.  That was written for laymen as > was a previous book by Jack Vernon.  But if memory serves, Jack did write a > textbook for specialists in audiology and otology about tinnitus a very long > time ago.  I’m sure you will correct me if I am wrong about that.  If so, > there are other textbooks, not written for laypeople, but for otologists and > audiologists. > ~~~ > …whether a patient who is not an expert in tinnitus can judge > > that an audiologist is on top of the field. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Excuse me?  Are you referring to Ginny?  Me?  Yourself?  People who have had > tinnitus and/or hearing impairment a long time can tell whether the > audiologist is on top of the field. Equipment changes;  ideas change.  If > the audiologist isn’t keeping up, I could quickly ascertain that.  I haven’t > just been lucky all my life; I’ve found the best wherever I’ve lived, and > traveled some distance when necessary to be with the best.  Have a little > faith in the power of one’s participation in one’s own healthcare. > Mary

Response:

"Mary Holmes Dague" <dag…@epix.net> wrote in part: >"Jim Chinnis" <jchin…@SPAMalum.mit.edu> wrote in message >news:n7rantkde2t4u8fe3ohncdl97lflg6c7gk@4ax.com… >> ginn…@aol.com (GinnyK2) wrote in part: >> >A basic audiology text would only give an brief overall view of audiology >and >> >wouldn’t be expected to go much into specialized areas. >~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Why don’t you complain to the editors,Jim?

My purpose in posting was not to attack a particular audiology textbook. It was simply to report that tinnitus is still not considered a significant problem in audiology–as represented in a major new edition of a standard text. >You Do understand that a >certified audiologist must have at least a masters degree and many have a >Ph.D.

No. Most audiologists in the US who treat patients have a masters degree: roughly a two year program. The text I referred to is a basic text in such programs. Other audiologists earn either an Au. D. degree, meaning that they have had additional coursework beyond the MS, or a Ph.D., meaning that they had had additional coursework plus studied research methods and have completed a dissertation. >You must, as Ginny says, pass strictly supervised clinical service >before you can become certified.  Anyone who has a CCC-A should be highly >qualified to deal with tinnitus.

Your conclusion does not follow. Susan Moreland used to write to me about her coursework in audiology and about her work toward her CCC-A. She wrote many letters about how poorly trained the typical audiologist is to deal with tinnitus. Most know nothing about residual inhibition or the wide variety of masking techniques and the different responses different people have to each technique. Habituation? Biofeedback? Outcomes of surgeries? Drugs? Hypnosis? Hardly. >If, in the post to me, you believed I was referring to the new >Vernon/Tabachnick Sanders book, I was not.  That was written for laymen as >was a previous book by Jack Vernon.  But if memory serves, Jack did write a >textbook for specialists in audiology and otology about tinnitus a very long >time ago.  I’m sure you will correct me if I am wrong about that.

I assumed you meant the 1995 text he wrote with Aage Moller. But I don’t disagee that audiologists who get interested in tinnitus will look up such books or work them into their PhD or AuD programs. My point was just that out of 400 pages in a basic audiology text, only two pages addressed tinnitus. I think that is revealing of the emphasis audiokogists receve in their training. And my experience in meeting a dozen or so audiologists and talking with them about this confirms my belief. >  If so, >there are other textbooks, not written for laypeople, but for otologists and >audiologists.

There is precious little written in any discipline about tinnitus. >>…whether a patient who is not an expert in tinnitus can judge >> that an audiologist is on top of the field. >~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Excuse me?  Are you referring to Ginny?  Me?  Yourself?

I think any patient who has not studied tinnitus research and been trained in a related discipline would have trouble knowing if an audiologist were current about tinnitus. >People who have had >tinnitus and/or hearing impairment a long time can tell whether the >audiologist is on top of the field. Equipment changes;  ideas change.  If >the audiologist isn’t keeping up, I could quickly ascertain that.

Maybe so, Mary. I don’t know your skills. What I do know is that you should reject most audiologists if you have severe intrusive tinnitus. They just aren’t trained to address it adequately. > I haven’t >just been lucky all my life; I’ve found the best wherever I’ve lived, and >traveled some distance when necessary to be with the best.  Have a little >faith in the power of one’s participation in one’s own healthcare.

Some people do very well and others have trouble finding knowledgeable help. It would be easier for all if basic training in audiology included tinnitus. — Jim Chinnis / Warrenton, Virginia, USA Join the American Tinnitus Assn: 800-634-8978 or http://www.ata.org Meniere’s? See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MenieresDG All comments are my personal opinions and should not be construed to represent the opinions of anyone else or any organization.

Response:

Marsha Johnson wrote: > BTW, I did a little survey today and noted that several individuals > here take up 90 % of the room!  Let’s have more contributions from > other people, please. > You don’t have to feel that you must respond to every post, guys, and > also your posts tend to be personally insulting to particular > individuals, which used to be frowned upon here at one time.  It does > not help our cause when we see so much bickering……so please stop. > MJ

Marsha…… while you were ‘away’, conditions here deteriorated very badly and most new people were scared away by the actions of two people and the reactions to them by others.  I have the most incredibly sized kill filter for this group because of this, and still almost every day that I log on here, I have to add another incarnation of the problem posters. I appreciate your very informative and condsidered posts and hope that you will keep it up.  Ditto for other professionals here regardless of their agendas either real or imagined by others.  It’s no different from watching TV;  if you don’t like it or agree with it, don’t pay attention to it! Also, everyone has to remember that it is very difficult to have the written word truly express your intent and meaning and more so if the posters are suffering from health problems.  I know sometimes I read after the fact some of my own posts and am ashamed of my grammer and lack of clarity.  I’m struggling with  the ravages of long term and serious oxygen deprivation so try to apply the compassion on others posts that I hope they are applying to mine. Regards, Lee — Lee Babcock Toronto, GWN

Response:

Thank you Jim for your well articulated point about the lack of material presented in general audiology textbooks on tinnitus (MUCH LESS HYPERACUSIS). I am probably the only person you will ever meet who……..TEACHES A GRADUATE LEVEL COURSE IN TINNITUS AND HYPERACUSIS TO AUDIOLOGISTS! Yes, folks, once a year I go down to POrtland STate University for a term and provide a course in these two areas.  I love it.  They love it.  THe university has asked me back for another term. I feel it is critical as in virtually all circumstances, audiologists in ALL settings will encounter individuals who suffer from these conditions.  And there is hardly any information on assessments, how to evaluate the results, and what to do for these people in the graduate level courses. Or in the job settings for that matter. About 4 years ago I began to research pulsatile tinnitus, which is incredibly difficult to tolerate and to treat.  I have found that using TRT has not been effective for PT sufferers.  IN my research I visited the medical libraries of our giant here in Oregon, The Oregon Health SCiences University, and several other in-house hospital libraries. It was a shock.  When I read through the various medical textbooks for ENTS, otologists, and other specialists involving medicine of the head, these huge textbooks had 1 or 2 paragraphs on tinnitus.  The actual number of sentences devoted to tinnitus decreased as time passed, say, from 1980 to 1990 to 2000. It was illuminating for me, however, and appears to suppport the very slight attention paid to tinnitus by most of our medical professionals. I have found, however, that publishing my articles, speaking to state audiology groups and hearing aid professionals, going out of my way to send off articles and information packes to the MDs of the patients who are in my clinic as well as my lengthy reports for each one, has gone a long way toward opening eyes and calling attention to these conditions. And teaching new audiologists is one of the most enjoyable parts of my own outreach. I would suggest that if you wish to see change happening, your support is needed.  There are quite a few audiologists out there now and a very few MDs who have chosen to make tinnitus and hyperacusis their vocational focus in the world. You can contact the nearest graduate program in audiology near you (see the American Academy of Audiology website….I think it is aaa.org) and see if you can come to speak to the group, ask if they can set up a little workshop for the students, etc etc.  Surely under the heading of medical audiology courses, this would be welcomed. Perhaps a speaker could be invited, i.e., one of the audiologists nearby who specializes in the field…..as well. BTW—-The ATA has nothing to do with supporting TRT or any other treatment method.  I perceive the organization to support all new research or methods that appear to have some merit, and they mostly provide information and support to sufferers.  I have respect for the founding parties and admiration for the staff there that I personally know…….they work very hard to provide something that is of use. BTW, I did a little survey today and noted that several individuals here take up 90 % of the room!  Let’s have more contributions from other people, please. You don’t have to feel that you must respond to every post, guys, and also your posts tend to be personally insulting to particular individuals, which used to be frowned upon here at one time.  It does not help our cause when we see so much bickering……so please stop. MJ

Response:

Shop around – Widex Senso CIC+

Question:

If your hearing gets worse, CIC aids may not have enough power.  You will get over the social aspect of wearing aids in time.  They are getting to be a lot more common and will soon be no more worth comment than wearing glasses.  I paid $5,000 for 2 (half-shell) digitals.

Response:

That’s what I have and that’s about what I paid.  They are worth it, but one hint–if you put them in your ears after a shower or other moist environments, buy a hot air dessicant dryer–they cost about $150 and seem to be worth it.  By the way, the Widex Senso aids are worth it, too. n 25 Feb 2001 11:21:23 GMT, hea…@aol.com (HEARA1) wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>I have come to a point where a HA will be required to keep my job. >What is your Job worth? >>they recommended the Senso CIC+ digital HA.  I wanted >>a small device because of the social aspect.  I was floored when I was told >>that the cost would be $6000. >>Has anyone found that shopping around can save money? >What is the TOTAL cost? What is included? >In my practice that is what I charge for the same & similar systems which >includes all the pre & post fitting tests & same day appointments, as needed >for a year. >My staff & myself have spent thousands of hours of study & patient care to >learn to serve the patients to their fullest potentials. >Those who offer less should charge less & often do. >I have no idea of your degree of hearing impairment so can’t make any >recommendations as to what Lab, model or programmed Rx would be most >appropriate. Don’t forget the need for auditory rehab. >HEARA1

Response:

"Michael W. Ridenhour" <mich…@ridenhour.com> wrote in message news:oPxh6.249685$j6.34820959@news1.rdc1.va.home.com… > That’s what they cost from me, which is about $1000 less than the MSRP.

How does that price compare with Phonak Claro?

Response:

"Dick" <nospamrcaust…@home.com> wrote in message

news:xoCh6.216835$ge4.73656664@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com… > "Michael W. Ridenhour" <mich…@ridenhour.com> wrote in message > news:oPxh6.249685$j6.34820959@news1.rdc1.va.home.com… > > That’s what they cost from me, which is about $1000 less than the MSRP. > How does that price compare with Phonak Claro?

I’ll look it up tomorrow at the office and let you know. There are so many brands that I just can’t remember Michael

Response:

On Sun, 11 Feb 2001 14:31:50 GMT, "JM" <jfm…@hotmail.com> took a very strange color crayon and scribbled: >I wanted >a small device because of the social aspect.  I was floored when I was told >that the cost would be $6000.

Don’t worry so much about the social aspect. It’s bogus and in fact is probably one of the reasons why the price you were quoted is so high. Miniaturization is a factor in cost. — Therese Shellabarger    / The Roving Reporter tlsh…@concentric.net     / http://www.concentric.net/~tlshell

Response:

>I have come to a point where a HA will be required to keep my job.

What is your Job worth? >they recommended the Senso CIC+ digital HA.  I wanted >a small device because of the social aspect.  I was floored when I was told >that the cost would be $6000. >Has anyone found that shopping around can save money?

What is the TOTAL cost? What is included? In my practice that is what I charge for the same & similar systems which includes all the pre & post fitting tests & same day appointments, as needed for a year. My staff & myself have spent thousands of hours of study & patient care to learn to serve the patients to their fullest potentials. Those who offer less should charge less & often do. I have no idea of your degree of hearing impairment so can’t make any recommendations as to what Lab, model or programmed Rx would be most appropriate. Don’t forget the need for auditory rehab. HEARA1

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I have come to a point where a HA will be required to keep my job.  I went to the audiologist and they recommended the Senso CIC+ digital HA.  I wanted a small device because of the social aspect.  I was floored when I was told that the cost would be $6000. Has anyone found that shopping around can save money?  Is there that big of a difference between what audiologist charge?  What have you all found? Regards, John

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That’s what they cost from me, which is about $1000 less than the MSRP. If people call my office, my secretary tells them the price over the phone so they won’t be "floored" when they come in. I usually refer shoppers to the local speech and hearing center, which receives United Way help to meet their expenses. Call an ENT’s audiologist. They may lower prices for you. Also, you might try the Lions hearing aid bank in your state, or your state Rehabilitation Services, if you have to have them to work. Michael "JM" <jfm…@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:qnxh6.70610$Y6.20062237@news1.mntp1.il.home.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have come to a point where a HA will be required to keep my job.  I went > to the audiologist and they recommended the Senso CIC+ digital HA.  I wanted > a small device because of the social aspect.  I was floored when I was told > that the cost would be $6000. > Has anyone found that shopping around can save money?  Is there that big of > a difference between what audiologist charge?  What have you all found? > Regards, > John

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