Question:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -William P wrote: > August Pamplona <cosmic…@hotmail.com> wrote in > news:3os0q8F77mvlU1@individual.net: >>>What do you mean you think it’s part of undesirable rigidity? You >>>have about three or four levels of hypothesis in there. If you don’t >>>want to do it because of a rigidity that you think is bad, isn’t that >>>a little like wanting it? >> Not really. Drinking of alcohol is associated with >> drunkenness >>and drunkenness implies a lack of control in my mind (or at least not >>being fully in control) and I suppose that I like to be in full >>control of my faculties as much as I can. > Do you think you’re in full control of your faculties as it is? Do you > always behave logically? > What you wrote there doesn’t strike me as a very good logical defense. > Drinking a couple of beers doesn’t make you drunk, so associating it with > drunkenness doesn’t make a lot of sense. (I’m not trying to lead you to > the bottle, just verbalizing.) >>And of course, there are >>people who are peaceful drunks and people who are mean drunks. I >>suppose that I would fear being one of the latter (lack of control). I >>don’t think I fear that anymore. I think it’s just not in me. > What do you mean by just not in you? Like it’s part of your fundamental > nature?
Yes, that’s what I mean. I realize that the potential for these things is in all of us but I don’t think it is specially so in me (and, indeed, I think that I might be more harmless than most). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> I think I just have a tendency to ascribe or fear the worst >> in >>myself sometimes (thus, I feared that I’d be a mean drunk without any >>real good reason to think this). Like, for instance, I remember once I >>went with my grandmother and a friend of my grandmother’s to see some >>other friend of my grandmother’s and her daughter and her daughter’s >>husband who was black. A horribly disgusting and racist comment was >>made by this first friend of my grandmother’s (kind gentle looking old >>lady who you’d never expect to say such a horrible thing) before >>leaving to go to the second friend’s place. When we got there, I felt >>horrible and terribly guilty as if _I_ had made the comment and as if >>_I_ was the one who had those feelings (I’m sure she just felt fine >>about it and was able to effortlessly up a front of civility and >>niceness). >> Of course, these things about drunkenness should not >> logically >>be a concern if I’m merely concerned with the taste experience or with >>health (for both of these moderation is optimal and need not ever lead >>to drunkenness). So I’m not sure how a fear of loss of control figures >>into moderation. Perhaps I fear that I can’t be moderate (you know, >>like the silly A.A. dogma). > That’s what I get for not reading the rest of your post before replying > since you already answered what I wrote above. Oh well. > Anyway, do you see value in confronting parts of yourself that behave in > ways you know don’t serve any purpose?
Mostly, yes. It depends. >> I actually own one music CD: _Monty Python Sings_ (not that I >>actually play it on a regular basis or anything like that, but I do >>own it). Sometime I might be interested in getting the whole _Carmina >>Burana_ because I find it weird and all I’ve ever heard from it is ‘O >>Fortuna’ (though I do find the excessive dynamic range –is that the >>right expression?– uncomfortble). > Dynamic range usually refers to loud/soft. In that sense, you’d be hard > pressed to find a piece with _more_ dynamic range than O Fortuna. Maybe
That’s what I thought it meant. Talk about music is quite foreign to me. In college I signed up for some introductory music class and I left not even halfway into the class to drop it when I realized that even the most basic terminology was complete gibberish to me (Michaela could have been teaching that class and it wouldn’s have made any less sense). Fortunately, they had just introduced registration by touch tone phone and I was able to get to a telephone, drop the class and sign up for an intro to theater class in the same time slot instead (which I walked into already in progress). The theater class was truly hideous but it was also an easy A. > Ravel’s "Bolero" or something. I think you might be disappointed with > the rest of _Carmina_ though, it’s not much like it. That piece is
I would imagine not. Though, I don’t think I’ve ever heard it (at least not knowing it). > famous and ripped off by virtually every fantasy film score composer for > a reason. >>>Is there something of any kind you feel extremely driven to do? >> No. It might be nice if there was something that I felt >>extremely driven to do. Here’s another hypothesis: maybe my problem is >>a generalized lack of drive (it’s just something that your question >>made me think of, not that I take this hypothesis seriously). > Do you think you have a problem?
Yes. I’m 37, supposedly intelligent, in apparent good (perhaps even great) health and I have not done anything with my life. August Pamplona — Women bring men they like tasks in much the same way cats put dead mice on their owner’s pillows. – Lola on a.s.s. a.a. # 1811 apatriot #20 Eater of smut Proud member of the reality-based community. The address in this message’s ‘From’ field, in accordance with individual.net’s TOS, is real. However, almost all messages reaching this address are deleted without human intervention. In other words, if you e-mail me there, I will not receive your message. To make sure that e-mail messages actually reach me, make sure that my e-mail address is not hot.
Response:
"Bernd Jendrissek" <ber…@prism.co.za> wrote in news:dkv3pj$fup$2@penguin.wetton.example.org: > In article <Xns96CE876DEF52willdotpsympatico…@207.35.177.135> > William P <willd…@sympatico.ca> wrote: >>Does anyone here ever go to clubs or bars? What kind of places? What >>do you drink? How do you dance? What do you wear? > I go to a "Latin Lounge" that offers Salsa classes, which I take, and > tend to squirm during the "social dance" breaks between classes > (that’s if I take two consecutive classes).
I could see that. Would it be possible for you, in your mind, to go in there thinking that the whole thing was one big class, and basically just become an actor during the "social" break? So force yourself to do stuff like ask many women to dance and make basic pleasant conversation as if there were an instructor telling you that’s what you have to do? > How? More or less competently, apparently, during the classes; > totally incompetently between classes (which is why my avoidance kicks > in). I seem to be completely deaf to the beat between classes, but I > hear / "feel" it regularly during classes. Probably because the > instructor calls out the beat, so it’s easier to get my VCO locked > with just a small phase error. Between classes it’s a zillion times > harder, as the music does weird stuff designed to embarrass me in > particular. > I tend to "dress up", even though most of the other people are dressed > fairly casually (some, *very* casually). I’m not the only one who > wears formal trousers (from my "prom" tuxedo, actually 
and a collar > shirt; quite a few other guys do too.
That sounds cool. I’ll probably dress up more once my body is a smoking hot unit again. > I drink nothing, unless subjected to intense enthusiasm for me to try > yet another sugary cocktail in a peanut butter jar.
Sounds yummy. An ex high school friend once worked as a bartender and hooked me up with a drink called a "girlie girl" and gave me two of them, and I was just totally toasted. That’s the only time in my life I’ve been seriously inebriated. But it was pretty tasty and I had to resist the urge to shop for a skirt the next day. >>When I was doing the club thing a bit I was pretty boring. > I’m more boring than you, so there.
Well once you get through my layers, I’m basically a wild party. >>It was basically beer, and I just went for clothing not to stand out, >>so khakis and pretty plain button-down shirts. > I’m consciously dressing a little more "up" precisely to "stand out" a > little – a feeble attempt at a bit of peacocking. At a more > nightclubby nightclub (the ones where even my virgin eyes might notice > crack snorting) I would probably try to be in thermal equilibrium with > the vacuum, if I didn’t just avoid going altogether.
Yeah, I’m squeamish about open drug use too. I don’t think you snort crack though, I hope you appreciate that correction. >>I didn’t know what the hell to do about shoes. > I’ve been turning it over in my head to get some really fancy shoes. > Shoes that scream out, "Golddiggers come here!" I guess I can easily > afford it; I’m not sure why I’m procrastinating. Maybe I’m not really > convinced that the shoes I had been eyeing would be that obviously > superior to shoe-detectors (grils), to the extent that shoes half the > price wouldn’t have the same effect. That, and I know the danger > exists that they might end up in the cupboard to be used twice a year.
What would you actually get? I know I could go to a high end department store like Harry Rosen (might be Canada only) and get some kind of $350 plus dress shoes made in Italy. Would anyone actually notice that? I wonder. >>Anyone ever learn dance? > As above, yes, trying. I’m getting quite good at following the > classes, but I’m still nearly completely incompetent at "social" > dancing – where I write the script. If I even keep the beat (and I > consider this priority zero), I tend to fall into a rut of doing one > basic step (forward/backward) over and over and over. I might decide > to want to do a cross-body lead, for example, but somehow I miss the > opportunity to start the move… again and again and again, so I just > insert Yet Another basic step.
Yes, this sounds very difficult to me, when it becomes about improvisation and "feeling it". > I don’t want to bore, or worse, turn off grils with my extracurricular > incompetence, so I rather just lurk in the shadows and say hi and > exchange a few banal questions and remarks with whoever seems > vulnerable to my attack. I don’t know if I’m making a mistake here – > if I should "just" ask one gril after another to dance, stuff it up > and have to go to the next, until the venue is exhausted. Maybe I’m > just thinking in too much of a male pattern… too > performance-oriented. I just kinda find it embarrassing to ask a girl > to dance, and then be disappointingly lame at it, despite being quite > good in the class.
Man, in my opinion you just need to quit caring what the grils think, and in a good way. You being so "considerate" of not turning them off isn’t doing you or them any favours. >>I’ve been thinking of it for a while. Dancing might be the one >>activity that I have the least innate talent for. The only purpose of >>dance is to display the way you move to other people. And if I have a >>big flaw, it’s emotive body language. > Do people accuse you too of being "stiff"?
Yes, absolutely. My girlfriend has asked for a "more user friendly interface" before, even. > IIRC you had said > something about "taking up space" – do you or don’t you do it > effectively?
I think I’m better but still not good. I think my mannerisms in general exhude geekiness. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> (Note to self: reminder to use caahfident body language no matter how > stoopid it "feels" – you saw what it looks like when you just pose > "naturally" / comfortably. Yes that’s it, play one discomfort off > against another. It’s uncomfortable knowing that you look like a dork > with dead arms hanging straight down from your shoulders, isn’t it? > Hmm? Hmm?) >>(Along with poor conversation ability.) I know I would be a really >>sucky dancer. > If you’re caahfident enough in your body to boink your gf I’m sure you > can pass as a halfway smooth dancer, with practice. I think that’s > some of what makes me "stiff" – somehow I associate "smooth" and > "relaxed" with sex, and sex is obviously gross, so the solution is to > be "not smooth". Or something like that. Being "smooth" is the top > of the slippery slope that leads to success, you see.
At least if the slope is slippery you’re doing something right. (Sorry!) >>But maybe just studying it would bring me into the world of average? > Studying, now there’s an idea. Many people seem to object to the idea > of trying to learn anything at all about a nonverbal language skill > (such as dancing, or general body language for that matter) from a > verbal source, such as a book. I have no such objection; quite the > opposite in fact. Do you want or have any links? > (The flip side of that bibliophobia is that the texts that *do* exist > are few and likely to be of low quality, since few competent > practitioners (of the art and/or of instruction) feel motivated to > write such texts.)
I love the idea of studying nonverbal behaviour. It’s the main point of Pepkeism, that you can learn what you’re not supposed to be able to learn and change what you’re not supposed to change. If you have links that aren’t Google ones, sure I could be interested. I liked Julius Fast’s book "Body Language" but I don’t know if you’d find anything in there you don’t know. >>Or maybe it could even have carry-over effects into other body >>language and the oh so elusive "taking up space with my body" effect >>people talk about. > Ah, there we go – you too are a space conservationist. I haven’t > noticed any change in my non-dance body language. Neither through > introspection / wishful thinking / proprioceptive observation, nor > through comments from others. Maybe a greater general coordination of > my feet, but hardly anything that I would expect to be apparent at the > mall.
How about being less anxious about physical contact with girls? Any change there? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>Anyone have a recomendation for what kind of dancing they’d learn? > Go where the girls are, no wait, you already have a gf. Well, go > anyway, she might become a bit more clingy if that’s what you want. > I’ve heard that my choice of Salsa was a bit of a jump-in-the-deep-end > trick; apparently the music is hard to learn to dance to, with all the > syncopation that Salsa bands typically do. I’ve had it suggested that > I try ballroom dancing (Foxtrot, Waltz, that kind of stuff); it may > involve a more orthogonal set of skills. >>One cool thing about dance class is that I’d get to touch girls even >>while still in a relationship wait I’m just kidding, no I’m not, yes I >>am. > Will your gf make you wear gloves?
I don’t think it would matter. When I was in a community opera performance a few years ago I was holding hands with this girl when we were in costume and both wearing gloves and it was actually quite hot.
Response:
—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– Hash: SHA1 In article <Xns96CE876DEF52willdotpsympatico…@207.35.177.135> William P <willd…@sympatico.ca> wrote: >Does anyone here ever go to clubs or bars? What kind of places? What >do you drink? How do you dance? What do you wear?
I go to a "Latin Lounge" that offers Salsa classes, which I take, and tend to squirm during the "social dance" breaks between classes (that’s if I take two consecutive classes). How? More or less competently, apparently, during the classes; totally incompetently between classes (which is why my avoidance kicks in). I seem to be completely deaf to the beat between classes, but I hear / "feel" it regularly during classes. Probably because the instructor calls out the beat, so it’s easier to get my VCO locked with just a small phase error. Between classes it’s a zillion times harder, as the music does weird stuff designed to embarrass me in particular. I tend to "dress up", even though most of the other people are dressed fairly casually (some, *very* casually). I’m not the only one who wears formal trousers (from my "prom" tuxedo, actually and a collar shirt; quite a few other guys do too. I drink nothing, unless subjected to intense enthusiasm for me to try yet another sugary cocktail in a peanut butter jar. >When I was doing the club thing a bit I was pretty boring.
I’m more boring than you, so there. >It was basically beer, and I just went for clothing not to stand out, >so khakis and pretty plain button-down shirts.
I’m consciously dressing a little more "up" precisely to "stand out" a little – a feeble attempt at a bit of peacocking. At a more nightclubby nightclub (the ones where even my virgin eyes might notice crack snorting) I would probably try to be in thermal equilibrium with the vacuum, if I didn’t just avoid going altogether. >I didn’t know what the hell to do about shoes.
I’ve been turning it over in my head to get some really fancy shoes. Shoes that scream out, "Golddiggers come here!" I guess I can easily afford it; I’m not sure why I’m procrastinating. Maybe I’m not really convinced that the shoes I had been eyeing would be that obviously superior to shoe-detectors (grils), to the extent that shoes half the price wouldn’t have the same effect. That, and I know the danger exists that they might end up in the cupboard to be used twice a year. >Anyone ever learn dance?
As above, yes, trying. I’m getting quite good at following the classes, but I’m still nearly completely incompetent at "social" dancing – where I write the script. If I even keep the beat (and I consider this priority zero), I tend to fall into a rut of doing one basic step (forward/backward) over and over and over. I might decide to want to do a cross-body lead, for example, but somehow I miss the opportunity to start the move… again and again and again, so I just insert Yet Another basic step. I don’t want to bore, or worse, turn off grils with my extracurricular incompetence, so I rather just lurk in the shadows and say hi and exchange a few banal questions and remarks with whoever seems vulnerable to my attack. I don’t know if I’m making a mistake here – if I should "just" ask one gril after another to dance, stuff it up and have to go to the next, until the venue is exhausted. Maybe I’m just thinking in too much of a male pattern… too performance-oriented. I just kinda find it embarrassing to ask a girl to dance, and then be disappointingly lame at it, despite being quite good in the class. >I’ve been thinking of it for a while. Dancing might be the one >activity that I have the least innate talent for. The only purpose of >dance is to display the way you move to other people. And if I have a >big flaw, it’s emotive body language.
Do people accuse you too of being "stiff"? IIRC you had said something about "taking up space" – do you or don’t you do it effectively? (Note to self: reminder to use caahfident body language no matter how stoopid it "feels" – you saw what it looks like when you just pose "naturally" / comfortably. Yes that’s it, play one discomfort off against another. It’s uncomfortable knowing that you look like a dork with dead arms hanging straight down from your shoulders, isn’t it? Hmm? Hmm?) >(Along with poor conversation ability.) I know I would be a really >sucky dancer.
If you’re caahfident enough in your body to boink your gf I’m sure you can pass as a halfway smooth dancer, with practice. I think that’s some of what makes me "stiff" – somehow I associate "smooth" and "relaxed" with sex, and sex is obviously gross, so the solution is to be "not smooth". Or something like that. Being "smooth" is the top of the slippery slope that leads to success, you see. >But maybe just studying it would bring me into the world of average?
Studying, now there’s an idea. Many people seem to object to the idea of trying to learn anything at all about a nonverbal language skill (such as dancing, or general body language for that matter) from a verbal source, such as a book. I have no such objection; quite the opposite in fact. Do you want or have any links? (The flip side of that bibliophobia is that the texts that *do* exist are few and likely to be of low quality, since few competent practitioners (of the art and/or of instruction) feel motivated to write such texts.) >Or maybe it could even have carry-over effects into other body language >and the oh so elusive "taking up space with my body" effect people talk >about.
Ah, there we go – you too are a space conservationist. I haven’t noticed any change in my non-dance body language. Neither through introspection / wishful thinking / proprioceptive observation, nor through comments from others. Maybe a greater general coordination of my feet, but hardly anything that I would expect to be apparent at the mall. >Anyone have a recomendation for what kind of dancing they’d learn?
Go where the girls are, no wait, you already have a gf. Well, go anyway, she might become a bit more clingy if that’s what you want. I’ve heard that my choice of Salsa was a bit of a jump-in-the-deep-end trick; apparently the music is hard to learn to dance to, with all the syncopation that Salsa bands typically do. I’ve had it suggested that I try ballroom dancing (Foxtrot, Waltz, that kind of stuff); it may involve a more orthogonal set of skills. >One cool thing about dance class is that I’d get to touch girls even >while still in a relationship wait I’m just kidding, no I’m not, yes I >am.
Will your gf make you wear gloves? – — non-smoking section in a restaurant == non-peeing section in a swimming pool —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Please fetch my new key 804177F8 from hkp://wwwkeys.eu.pgp.net/ iD8DBQFDcxJcwyMv24BBd/gRAmoKAJ9yhGCRU7qSR5UQNpCMo0m3yv7IgQCfRsEO GMjcC4cd0OFzOFapzAbs4DU= =HuU/ —–END PGP SIGNATURE—–
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -William P wrote: > August Pamplona <cosmic…@hotmail.com> wrote in news:3okdgcF6afoeU1 > @individual.net: >>>Cool. Did the attempt yield anything? >> This was done through Adult FriendFinder. Basically I was >>going to be in the Twin Cities and I sent a mesage to 19 women in the >>Twin Cities area saying I would be there over that weekend and how >>about a ONS. This was done with no real expectation that I’d get a >>reply. I did it in such a way that proper communication was impossible >>when someone actually did reply proposing Friday (IIRC, I sent that >>message on Thursday). I was thinking Saturday so it took me by >>surprise. I got the impression that the hasty, almost spontaneous >>nature of the whole thing was part of the fantasy for her. As a result >>I showed up there a few hours after she expected me there. Apparently >>she left not that terribly long before I got there (or so she told me). >>If I hadn’t gotten stopped for speeding and if I hadn’t gotten a little >>bit lost on the way there I might actually have made it there before >>she had left the place. > Cool story. I’m impressed you got that far. I had always thought almost > all women on AFF were really just prostitutes advertising.
There are apparently a lot of fake profiles. I have found a couple of profiles that fit your description (which would technically be against the TOS because anything advertising a business is considered a violation) although one was probably not a "pro" but rather just some fucked up kid. And now that I think about it, I also recall one profile of someone looking for a "sugar daddy". It didn’t sound exactly like she was looking for a hooking gig but what she seemed to be looking for certainly resembled the profession (it sounded like she was looking for one guy who’d monetarily reward her rather than many johns). I have since run into http://sex.perkel.com/escort/shygirl.htm which is very suggestive of what you say. As a result, and to satisfy my curiosity, I did a search restricting to a short distance around the Twin Cities metropolitan area (assuming that prostitutes will be easier to find in metropolitan areas) and with pictures (assuming that prostitutes are likely to have pictures since it is well known that profiles with pictures get more responses). I went through 150 profiles in the order given that had recent online activity (I’m assuming that if one is using AFF for hooking one would check in with the system more than once every couple of months). I could not find any profiles giving any hints at hooking other than the one which I had previously found. So I am now inclined to think that AFF is not, as you put it, just prostitutes advertising. I do think that other similarly focused websites are likely to be scams (why do I think this? because I have actually tried one). I also think that AFF is very far from being a good bet (in my state, the ratio of men to women is ~12:1 and there are a lot of women and couples who are actualy looking for women rather than men –and, of course, there supposedly are many fake female profiles). It is possible that things on AFF were different when Perkel wrote that web page than how they are now (maybe they cracked down on profiles soliciting for prostitution since then). It is possible that geographic differences exist (and that I just happened to look at the one metropolitan area where prostitutes do not use AFF to advertise). It is possible that I’m just not clever enough to decipher the hints indicating that one is plying this oldest trade (though I doubt that this is the case since I was actually in a mindset where I was looking for said hints). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>>Never even tried it? Why not? >> I’ve tried it in the getting my tongue wet sense strictly to >>taste it. >> I also have tried some sherry once because my dad was being a >>pain in the ass saying that I have to try it because I don’t know what >>I’m missing (he’s a bit of a sybarite and can’t understand how it can >>be that I might forego the pleasures of wines and other fine alcoholic >>beverages). And now that I think about it, I tried to get drunk once >>well into my thirties when I was alone just to see what it would feel >>like (it didn’t feel like anything and I just went to bed –maybe I >>just didn’t give it enough time). >> Also, for the ONS attempt I mentioned, I was fully prepared to >>have one and only one glass of Champagne type wine because that was >>part of the fantasy she described. > Well at least you don’t have really weird hangups about even trying a > drink once in your life.
Oh, I think I have the hangup. It’s just that I think I shouldn’t because I think it’s part of undesirable rigidity. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I won a bottle of wine in a band lottery once > and drank it while in an IRC channel. That’s the most inebriated I’ve > ever been probably, but after reviewing the logs afteward I wasn’t even > acting all that weird. I’ve had more manic days sober. (That’s manic as > in manic-depressive, not as in MXSmanic.) >>>Why does it confuse you? >> Because it never occurred to me that dancing could ever look >>appealing to me at any level. The music wasn’t even loud (loud noise >>really bothers me) and would have been bearable to me while wearing >>earplugs. > Do you like music at all?
I don’t listen to music. I have tried to figure out what people get out of it and I think that I often can do it but I don’t think I could put it into words. August Pamplona — Women bring men they like tasks in much the same way cats put dead mice on their owner’s pillows. – Lola on a.s.s. a.a. # 1811 apatriot #20 Eater of smut Proud member of the reality-based community. The address in this message’s ‘From’ field, in accordance with individual.net’s TOS, is real. However, almost all messages reaching this address are deleted without human intervention. In other words, if you e-mail me there, I will not receive your message. To make sure that e-mail messages actually reach me, make sure that my e-mail address is not hot.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -William P wrote: > August Pamplona <cosmic…@hotmail.com> wrote in > news:3os0q8F77mvlU1@individual.net: >>>What do you mean you think it’s part of undesirable rigidity? You >>>have about three or four levels of hypothesis in there. If you don’t >>>want to do it because of a rigidity that you think is bad, isn’t that >>>a little like wanting it? >> Not really. Drinking of alcohol is associated with >> drunkenness >>and drunkenness implies a lack of control in my mind (or at least not >>being fully in control) and I suppose that I like to be in full >>control of my faculties as much as I can. > Do you think you’re in full control of your faculties as it is?
If you include the qualifier "as much as I can" in your reading of what I wrote, probably. > Do you > always behave logically?
No. While I might seem rather logical if I met with you IRL, I obviously do not behave logically (or else I would have done a much better job of figuring out what to do with my life). > What you wrote there doesn’t strike me as a very good logical defense. > Drinking a couple of beers doesn’t make you drunk, so associating it with > drunkenness doesn’t make a lot of sense. (I’m not trying to lead you to > the bottle, just verbalizing.)
Actually, I just realized that I’ve just done a hell of a lot with respect to addressing this particular fear. Strangely enough, it wasn’t through drinking alcohol. Instead, I tried pot several times (used special cupcakes and a vaporizer –the idea of inhaling smoke is highly unappealing, if not outright disgusting, to me and the vaporizer was the compromise for the prefered inhaled route where I decided to draw the line). I can definitely say that I was not in full control of my faculties as much as I could be. I had trouble following conversations (beyond a sentence at a time, anyway). [snip] August Pamplona — Women bring men they like tasks in much the same way cats put dead mice on their owner’s pillows. – Lola on a.s.s. a.a. # 1811 apatriot #20 Eater of smut Proud member of the reality-based community. The address in this message’s ‘From’ field, in accordance with individual.net’s TOS, is real. However, almost all messages reaching this address are deleted without human intervention. In other words, if you e-mail me there, I will not receive your message. To make sure that e-mail messages actually reach me, make sure that my e-mail address is not hot.
Response:
Eve de Villette wrote: > August Pamplona wrote… >>Yes. I’m 37, supposedly intelligent, in apparent good (perhaps >>even great) health and I have not done anything with my life. > What would you define as having "done something" with your life?
I am currently unemployed and when I have been employed it has been in jobs that did not interest me in any way and which did not challenge in ways that I’d like to be challenged. Having "done something" with my life would probably involve employment in something which was satisfying to me at some non-trivial level. August Pamplona — Women bring men they like tasks in much the same way cats put dead mice on their owner’s pillows. – Lola on a.s.s. a.a. # 1811 apatriot #20 Eater of smut Proud member of the reality-based community. The address in this message’s ‘From’ field, in accordance with individual.net’s TOS, is real. However, almost all messages reaching this address are deleted without human intervention. In other words, if you e-mail me there, I will not receive your message. To make sure that e-mail messages actually reach me, make sure that my e-mail address is not hot.
Response:
August Pamplona wrote… > Yes. I’m 37, supposedly intelligent, in apparent good (perhaps > even great) health and I have not done anything with my life.
What would you define as having "done something" with your life?
Response:
August Pamplona <cosmic…@hotmail.com> wrote in news:3os0q8F77mvlU1@individual.net: >> What do you mean you think it’s part of undesirable rigidity? You >> have about three or four levels of hypothesis in there. If you don’t >> want to do it because of a rigidity that you think is bad, isn’t that >> a little like wanting it? > Not really. Drinking of alcohol is associated with > drunkenness > and drunkenness implies a lack of control in my mind (or at least not > being fully in control) and I suppose that I like to be in full > control of my faculties as much as I can.
Do you think you’re in full control of your faculties as it is? Do you always behave logically? What you wrote there doesn’t strike me as a very good logical defense. Drinking a couple of beers doesn’t make you drunk, so associating it with drunkenness doesn’t make a lot of sense. (I’m not trying to lead you to the bottle, just verbalizing.) > And of course, there are > people who are peaceful drunks and people who are mean drunks. I > suppose that I would fear being one of the latter (lack of control). I > don’t think I fear that anymore. I think it’s just not in me.
What do you mean by just not in you? Like it’s part of your fundamental nature? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I think I just have a tendency to ascribe or fear the worst > in > myself sometimes (thus, I feared that I’d be a mean drunk without any > real good reason to think this). Like, for instance, I remember once I > went with my grandmother and a friend of my grandmother’s to see some > other friend of my grandmother’s and her daughter and her daughter’s > husband who was black. A horribly disgusting and racist comment was > made by this first friend of my grandmother’s (kind gentle looking old > lady who you’d never expect to say such a horrible thing) before > leaving to go to the second friend’s place. When we got there, I felt > horrible and terribly guilty as if _I_ had made the comment and as if > _I_ was the one who had those feelings (I’m sure she just felt fine > about it and was able to effortlessly up a front of civility and > niceness). > Of course, these things about drunkenness should not > logically > be a concern if I’m merely concerned with the taste experience or with > health (for both of these moderation is optimal and need not ever lead > to drunkenness). So I’m not sure how a fear of loss of control figures > into moderation. Perhaps I fear that I can’t be moderate (you know, > like the silly A.A. dogma).
That’s what I get for not reading the rest of your post before replying since you already answered what I wrote above. Oh well. Anyway, do you see value in confronting parts of yourself that behave in ways you know don’t serve any purpose? > I actually own one music CD: _Monty Python Sings_ (not that I > actually play it on a regular basis or anything like that, but I do > own it). Sometime I might be interested in getting the whole _Carmina > Burana_ because I find it weird and all I’ve ever heard from it is ‘O > Fortuna’ (though I do find the excessive dynamic range –is that the > right expression?– uncomfortble).
Dynamic range usually refers to loud/soft. In that sense, you’d be hard pressed to find a piece with _more_ dynamic range than O Fortuna. Maybe Ravel’s "Bolero" or something. I think you might be disappointed with the rest of _Carmina_ though, it’s not much like it. That piece is famous and ripped off by virtually every fantasy film score composer for a reason. >> Is there something of any kind you feel extremely driven to do? > No. It might be nice if there was something that I felt > extremely driven to do. Here’s another hypothesis: maybe my problem is > a generalized lack of drive (it’s just something that your question > made me think of, not that I take this hypothesis seriously).
Do you think you have a problem?
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -William P wrote: > August Pamplona <cosmic…@hotmail.com> wrote in > news:3on4etF6ojc0U1@individual.net: >> I went through 150 profiles in the order given that had >> recent >>online activity (I’m assuming that if one is using AFF for hooking one >>would check in with the system more than once every couple of months). >>I could not find any profiles giving any hints at hooking other than >>the one which I had previously found. So I am now inclined to think >>that AFF is not, as you put it, just prostitutes advertising. I do >>think that other similarly focused websites are likely to be scams >>(why do I think this? because I have actually tried one). I also think >>that AFF is very far from being a good bet (in my state, the ratio of >>men to women is ~12:1 and there are a lot of women and couples who are >>actualy looking for women rather than men –and, of course, there >>supposedly are many fake female profiles). > What hints were you looking for? All personals are presumably screened > by a human being at the site to exclude prosexers. So one who wanted to > advertise that way would have to keep it off the ad and then somehow > bring it up once you made contact. But then they might all just get > reported, who knows.
I don’t know. Something like the Perkel article mentioned. Maybe I really am too retarded to figure it out. If there really are that many whores in there, one would think that at least one of them would have responded saying "Maybe we could work something out… and by the way, this is how I operate: it’s x dollars for 1 hour, etc..". I have sent quite a few messages. >>>Well at least you don’t have really weird hangups about even trying a >>>drink once in your life. >> Oh, I think I have the hangup. It’s just that I think I >>shouldn’t because I think it’s part of undesirable rigidity. > What do you mean you think it’s part of undesirable rigidity? You have > about three or four levels of hypothesis in there. If you don’t want to > do it because of a rigidity that you think is bad, isn’t that a little > like wanting it?
Not really. Drinking of alcohol is associated with drunkenness and drunkenness implies a lack of control in my mind (or at least not being fully in control) and I suppose that I like to be in full control of my faculties as much as I can. And of course, there are people who are peaceful drunks and people who are mean drunks. I suppose that I would fear being one of the latter (lack of control). I don’t think I fear that anymore. I think it’s just not in me. I think I just have a tendency to ascribe or fear the worst in myself sometimes (thus, I feared that I’d be a mean drunk without any real good reason to think this). Like, for instance, I remember once I went with my grandmother and a friend of my grandmother’s to see some other friend of my grandmother’s and her daughter and her daughter’s husband who was black. A horribly disgusting and racist comment was made by this first friend of my grandmother’s (kind gentle looking old lady who you’d never expect to say such a horrible thing) before leaving to go to the second friend’s place. When we got there, I felt horrible and terribly guilty as if _I_ had made the comment and as if _I_ was the one who had those feelings (I’m sure she just felt fine about it and was able to effortlessly up a front of civility and niceness). Of course, these things about drunkenness should not logically be a concern if I’m merely concerned with the taste experience or with health (for both of these moderation is optimal and need not ever lead to drunkenness). So I’m not sure how a fear of loss of control figures into moderation. Perhaps I fear that I can’t be moderate (you know, like the silly A.A. dogma). >>>Do you like music at all? >> I don’t listen to music. I have tried to figure out what >>people get out of it and I think that I often can do it but I don’t >>think I could put it into words. > Interesting.
I actually own one music CD: _Monty Python Sings_ (not that I actually play it on a regular basis or anything like that, but I do own it). Sometime I might be interested in getting the whole _Carmina Burana_ because I find it weird and all I’ve ever heard from it is ‘O Fortuna’ (though I do find the excessive dynamic range –is that the right expression?– uncomfortble). > Interesting. Do you do enjoy anything on a frequent basis that would be > considered artistic?
I don’t think so. > Is there something of any kind you feel extremely driven to do?
No. It might be nice if there was something that I felt extremely driven to do. Here’s another hypothesis: maybe my problem is a generalized lack of drive (it’s just something that your question made me think of, not that I take this hypothesis seriously). > (I’m just being nosy because you’re interesting.)
August Pamplona — Women bring men they like tasks in much the same way cats put dead mice on their owner’s pillows. – Lola on a.s.s. a.a. # 1811 apatriot #20 Eater of smut Proud member of the reality-based community. The address in this message’s ‘From’ field, in accordance with individual.net’s TOS, is real. However, almost all messages reaching this address are deleted without human intervention. In other words, if you e-mail me there, I will not receive your message. To make sure that e-mail messages actually reach me, make sure that my e-mail address is not hot.
Response:
I prefer country roadhouses and regular old honky tonk bars with regular old regulars. I’m not a particularly good dancer but get by okay. Clothes? Always blue jeans and cowboy boots, flannel shirts, western shirts, t-shirts, baseball cap, or, when we go "fancy", I wear a cowboy hat. I’ve got two, winter & summer. I own one string tie. (For weddings and funerals.) ZenDog
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"zen_dog" <mao_z_…@yahoo.com> wrote in news:1126637075.664521.133670 @g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: > I prefer country roadhouses and regular old honky tonk bars with > regular old regulars. I’m not a particularly good dancer but get by > okay. Clothes? Always blue jeans and cowboy boots, flannel shirts, > western shirts, t-shirts, baseball cap, or, when we go "fancy", I wear > a cowboy hat. I’ve got two, winter & summer. I own one string tie. (For > weddings and funerals.)
What do you drink? Are you into line dancing? Do you wear a Billy-Ray Cyrus mullet? (Sorry, I’m just trying to build up a mental picture…) How did you learn how to dance? Do you meet women doing this?
Response:
August Pamplona <cosmic…@hotmail.com> wrote in news:3on4etF6ojc0U1@individual.net: > I went through 150 profiles in the order given that had > recent > online activity (I’m assuming that if one is using AFF for hooking one > would check in with the system more than once every couple of months). > I could not find any profiles giving any hints at hooking other than > the one which I had previously found. So I am now inclined to think > that AFF is not, as you put it, just prostitutes advertising. I do > think that other similarly focused websites are likely to be scams > (why do I think this? because I have actually tried one). I also think > that AFF is very far from being a good bet (in my state, the ratio of > men to women is ~12:1 and there are a lot of women and couples who are > actualy looking for women rather than men –and, of course, there > supposedly are many fake female profiles).
What hints were you looking for? All personals are presumably screened by a human being at the site to exclude prosexers. So one who wanted to advertise that way would have to keep it off the ad and then somehow bring it up once you made contact. But then they might all just get reported, who knows. >> Well at least you don’t have really weird hangups about even trying a >> drink once in your life. > Oh, I think I have the hangup. It’s just that I think I > shouldn’t because I think it’s part of undesirable rigidity.
What do you mean you think it’s part of undesirable rigidity? You have about three or four levels of hypothesis in there. If you don’t want to do it because of a rigidity that you think is bad, isn’t that a little like wanting it? >> Do you like music at all? > I don’t listen to music. I have tried to figure out what > people get out of it and I think that I often can do it but I don’t > think I could put it into words.
Interesting. Do you do enjoy anything on a frequent basis that would be considered artistic? Is there something of any kind you feel extremely driven to do? (I’m just being nosy because you’re interesting.)
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William wrote… > Well at least you don’t have really weird hangups about even trying a > drink once in your life. I won a bottle of wine in a band lottery once > and drank it while in an IRC channel. That’s the most inebriated I’ve > ever been probably, but after reviewing the logs afteward I wasn’t even > acting all that weird.
The perception of things changed. Kira said ‘um…’ and that was enough to send me into a squirming giggle-fit. Everything seemed just so funny.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -helen wrote: > William P wrote: >>"helen" <helens_pi…@yahoo.com> wrote in >>news:1126449720.014077.318400@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: >>>>Does anyone here ever go to clubs or bars? >>>dragged by friends/never alone >>>>What kind of places? >>>straight/gay college/kink/goth/30s crowd/ethnic/ad infinatum >>>>What do >>>>you drink? >>>sparkling mineral water, ice, lemon twist >>>margaritas >>>cold rose wine >>>>How do you dance? >>>by moving my body >>How do you do that? Just whatever feels right? Or try to mirror other >>people? Or consciously think, hmm, this is a 4/4 tune, I should be doing >>something with some part of my body on the 1 beat, and then another on >>the 3 beat, or work in syncopation or what? Or entirely non-conscious? > mechanically inexplicable…i just feel it. also, years of dance class, > from tiger costumes to pink tutus.
JPEG’s please! Oops, wrong newsgroup. [snip] >>I’m not sure exactly but haven’t you ever heard about presence of some >>guys who manage to take up space with their bodies? A girl told me once >>that if I wanted to work on something, that was one of the things: >>taking up more space. That and not looking down nearly as often as I do. > cryptic suggestion. are you looking at your shoes, wondering about > them?
LOL [snip] August Pamplona — Women bring men they like tasks in much the same way cats put dead mice on their owner’s pillows. – Lola on a.s.s. a.a. # 1811 apatriot #20 Eater of smut Proud member of the reality-based community. The address in this message’s ‘From’ field, in accordance with individual.net’s TOS, is real. However, almost all messages reaching this address are deleted without human intervention. In other words, if you e-mail me there, I will not receive your message. To make sure that e-mail messages actually reach me, make sure that my e-mail address is not hot.
Response:
August Pamplona <cosmic…@hotmail.com> wrote in news:3okdgcF6afoeU1 @individual.net: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Cool. Did the attempt yield anything? > This was done through Adult FriendFinder. Basically I was > going to be in the Twin Cities and I sent a mesage to 19 women in the > Twin Cities area saying I would be there over that weekend and how > about a ONS. This was done with no real expectation that I’d get a > reply. I did it in such a way that proper communication was impossible > when someone actually did reply proposing Friday (IIRC, I sent that > message on Thursday). I was thinking Saturday so it took me by > surprise. I got the impression that the hasty, almost spontaneous > nature of the whole thing was part of the fantasy for her. As a result > I showed up there a few hours after she expected me there. Apparently > she left not that terribly long before I got there (or so she told me). > If I hadn’t gotten stopped for speeding and if I hadn’t gotten a little > bit lost on the way there I might actually have made it there before > she had left the place.
Cool story. I’m impressed you got that far. I had always thought almost all women on AFF were really just prostitutes advertising. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Never even tried it? Why not? > I’ve tried it in the getting my tongue wet sense strictly to > taste it. > I also have tried some sherry once because my dad was being a > pain in the ass saying that I have to try it because I don’t know what > I’m missing (he’s a bit of a sybarite and can’t understand how it can > be that I might forego the pleasures of wines and other fine alcoholic > beverages). And now that I think about it, I tried to get drunk once > well into my thirties when I was alone just to see what it would feel > like (it didn’t feel like anything and I just went to bed –maybe I > just didn’t give it enough time). > Also, for the ONS attempt I mentioned, I was fully prepared to > have one and only one glass of Champagne type wine because that was > part of the fantasy she described.
Well at least you don’t have really weird hangups about even trying a drink once in your life. I won a bottle of wine in a band lottery once and drank it while in an IRC channel. That’s the most inebriated I’ve ever been probably, but after reviewing the logs afteward I wasn’t even acting all that weird. I’ve had more manic days sober. (That’s manic as in manic-depressive, not as in MXSmanic.) >> Why does it confuse you? > Because it never occurred to me that dancing could ever look > appealing to me at any level. The music wasn’t even loud (loud noise > really bothers me) and would have been bearable to me while wearing > earplugs.
Do you like music at all?
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"helen" <helens_pi…@yahoo.com> wrote in news:1126530779.663126.313260@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: >> How do you do that? Just whatever feels right? Or try to mirror >> other people? Or consciously think, hmm, this is a 4/4 tune, I >> should be doing something with some part of my body on the 1 beat, >> and then another on the 3 beat, or work in syncopation or what? Or >> entirely non-conscious? > mechanically inexplicable…i just feel it. also, years of dance > class, from tiger costumes to pink tutus.
Cool. My sister took ballet and I was so jealous of what she got to wear. I’ve always been mystified by people who just feel anything. You know people who sit down at a piano and just play. I can try that but I’m always thinking in terms of scales, chords, progressions, where in the scale a tone is, rhythm, and so forth. Probably as a result, I’m a complete bang-ass technical musician in groups, always being the one other people rely on to find the right place and the right pitch, but I’m poor at the emotion part. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> What do you like guys to wear? (Presuming you like guys sort of?) > i like guys. ummm…i don’t know…something not dirty. jeans? nothing > gawdy? > i really hate saggy pants & exposed underwear. >> >> When I was doing the club thing a bit I was pretty boring. It was >> >> basically beer, and I just went for clothing not to stand out, so >> >> khakis and pretty plain button-down shirts. I didn’t know what >> >> the hell to do about shoes. >> > shoes go on your feet. >> That explains a lot. Do you care about shoes on guys? > {dense, quisical look} > don’t think i care much.
Have you ever been physically attracted to a guy at a club? If so, why? (Was it what he was drinking, what he was wearing, or the way he danced?) >> True, but telling a story seems to be a pretty good social skill. >> Let’s just say if I could talk one tenth as well as I can post I’d be >> rolling in wimminz. I’m quite sure. > i try to tell stories in music…
Please elaborate if you want. > interesting image…"rolling in women". [now i'm imagining rolling in > a big pile of naked people, men & women, all covered in scented oils > ~]
True pot-pourri. >> Hmm, money, time, shame. Okay I lost all of the last one already. > shamelessness as a desireable place?
I think it’s pretty nice most of the time. Until you start embarassing yourself so much that there are actual consequences. I’m consistently surprised at how weird I can behave sometimes though. I once had a group (part of a choir) in university where I actually got myself known as the guy who just says offensive and weird stuff. It was pretty cool. >> I’m not sure exactly but haven’t you ever heard about presence of >> some guys who manage to take up space with their bodies? A girl told >> me once that if I wanted to work on something, that was one of the >> things: taking up more space. That and not looking down nearly as >> often as I do. > cryptic suggestion. are you looking at your shoes, wondering about > them?
Hah, maybe. Another pet theory is that I get overstimulated when I have to look at people, and have learned to look away because I can’t focus my thoughts without blocking a lot of the stimulus. That’s pretty classic autistic-spectrum stuff. I have to think about making eye contact, if I want to do it. >> Maybe that’s a positive for me. You have to be really straight >> posture- wise though, don’t you? > oh yes ~ chin always up, striving for poise.
It does look very impressive though. >> > because it sucks. >> You can’t say that. As a style of pure dance it is the real thing. >> Even though I’m an idiot who can’t move for shizzle I’ve seen enough >> of it to know it’s really artistic (in addtion to brutally athletic) >> at the highest level. > can’t get by reprocessed unoriginal bass-obsessed sameness. > can’t get by the aggression, sexism, homophobia, & strutting > criminality & ignorance.
You’re probably mainly talking about the music? But everyone has a side where they want to reveal raw sexual and primal power maybe, no? (Shit I hope nobody thinks I’m trying to pull an ASF here.) And I’d argue that almost nothing is as sexist as ballroom. Gender roles are extremely rigid and cliched, no? Just because you’re not listening to a guy telling a girl to back that ass up doesn’t mean you’re not doing a sexist activity. >> > touching strange flesh ~ >> > unleashes curiosity-beast. >> Some beasts are better off left on their leash I guess. > consciousness colors & distorts instinctual desires, > shame mangles animal joy.
True enough. See, I want to enjoy the instinctual desires somtimes, but I also want to be conscious enough to enjoy it on an intellectual level too, even if that doesn’t make any sense. Like the first time I got to hold a girl’s hand at a movie I was just wishing it would never end but time goes by so quickly anyway.
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>Does anyone here ever go to clubs or bars? What >kind of places?
Pubs, usually. Places with live music, or quiet places (like wine bars) where I can talk to people. I hate dance clubs, but I am dragged to them sometimes. >What do you drink?
Beer or wine. Sometimes scotch. >How do you dance?
I don’t. >What do you wear?
Usually a shirt, jeans (jacket and scarf if it’s cold). Sometimes a suit. Depends where I’m going. >Anyone have a recomendation for what kind of >dancing they’d learn?
Most dance schools I’ve seen teach "club dancing" which a basic introductory course to help you dance at a nightclub. You might want to start with that? I’m way, way too self conscious on the dance floor. So much so that I can only "dance" for a few seconds before I have to stop and collect myself.
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"helen" <helens_pi…@yahoo.com> wrote in news:1126449720.014077.318400@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Does anyone here ever go to clubs or bars? > dragged by friends/never alone >> What kind of places? > straight/gay college/kink/goth/30s crowd/ethnic/ad infinatum >> What do >> you drink? > sparkling mineral water, ice, lemon twist > margaritas > cold rose wine >> How do you dance? > by moving my body
How do you do that? Just whatever feels right? Or try to mirror other people? Or consciously think, hmm, this is a 4/4 tune, I should be doing something with some part of my body on the 1 beat, and then another on the 3 beat, or work in syncopation or what? Or entirely non-conscious? >> What do you wear? > clothes, except alone in apt. > (ok ~ dresses, occasionally, men’s suits. junk shop neckties.)
What do you like guys to wear? (Presuming you like guys sort of?) >> When I was doing the club thing a bit I was pretty boring. It was >> basically beer, and I just went for clothing not to stand out, so >> khakis and pretty plain button-down shirts. I didn’t know what the >> hell to do about shoes. > shoes go on your feet.
That explains a lot. Do you care about shoes on guys? … >> (Along with poor >> conversation ability.) > some people never shut up…
True, but telling a story seems to be a pretty good social skill. Let’s just say if I could talk one tenth as well as I can post I’d be rolling in wimminz. I’m quite sure. >> I know I would be a really sucky dancer. But maybe >> just studying it would bring me into the world of average? > what to lose?
Hmm, money, time, shame. Okay I lost all of the last one already. >> Or maybe it >> could even have carry-over effects into other body language and the >> oh so elusive "taking up space with my body" effect people talk >> about. > what people talk about that?
I’m not sure exactly but haven’t you ever heard about presence of some guys who manage to take up space with their bodies? A girl told me once that if I wanted to work on something, that was one of the things: taking up more space. That and not looking down nearly as often as I do. >> Anyone have a recomendation for what kind of dancing they’d learn? >> Swing >> seems popular, but is it just me or does it look kind of like this >> dumb 50s thing for people who liked Lawrence Welk? > no…good to develope partner skills. >> Maybe salsa > yes ~ & samba, tango, flamingo, merenge, pachanga, mambo, etc…. >>or heck even >> ballroom? > very cool! cool as in detatched.
Maybe that’s a positive for me. You have to be really straight posture- wise though, don’t you? >> For me, I think Hip Hop is out because > because it sucks.
You can’t say that. As a style of pure dance it is the real thing. Even though I’m an idiot who can’t move for shizzle I’ve seen enough of it to know it’s really artistic (in addtion to brutally athletic) at the highest level. >> One cool thing about dance >> class is that I’d get to touch girls even while still in a >> relationship wait I’m just kidding, no I’m not, yes I am. > touching strange flesh ~ > unleashes curiosity-beast.
Some beasts are better off left on their leash I guess.
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MrWigglesworth wrote: > >How do you dance? > I don’t.
Seinfeld: All set. I can’t believe I’m going dancing. Keri: You don’t go that often? Seinfeld: No, because it’s so stupid. Shall we?
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -William P wrote: > "helen" <helens_pi…@yahoo.com> wrote in > news:1126449720.014077.318400@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: > >> Does anyone here ever go to clubs or bars? > > dragged by friends/never alone > >> What kind of places? > > straight/gay college/kink/goth/30s crowd/ethnic/ad infinatum > >> What do > >> you drink? > > sparkling mineral water, ice, lemon twist > > margaritas > > cold rose wine > >> How do you dance? > > by moving my body > How do you do that? Just whatever feels right? Or try to mirror other > people? Or consciously think, hmm, this is a 4/4 tune, I should be doing > something with some part of my body on the 1 beat, and then another on > the 3 beat, or work in syncopation or what? Or entirely non-conscious?
mechanically inexplicable…i just feel it. also, years of dance class, from tiger costumes to pink tutus. > >> What do you wear? > > clothes, except alone in apt. > > (ok ~ dresses, occasionally, men’s suits. junk shop neckties.) > What do you like guys to wear? (Presuming you like guys sort of?)
i like guys. ummm…i don’t know…something not dirty. jeans? nothing gawdy? i really hate saggy pants & exposed underwear. > >> When I was doing the club thing a bit I was pretty boring. It was > >> basically beer, and I just went for clothing not to stand out, so > >> khakis and pretty plain button-down shirts. I didn’t know what the > >> hell to do about shoes. > > shoes go on your feet. > That explains a lot. Do you care about shoes on guys?
{dense, quisical look} don’t think i care much. > … > >> (Along with poor > >> conversation ability.) > > some people never shut up… > True, but telling a story seems to be a pretty good social skill. Let’s > just say if I could talk one tenth as well as I can post I’d be rolling > in wimminz. I’m quite sure.
i try to tell stories in music… interesting image…"rolling in women". [now i'm imagining rolling in a big pile of naked people, men & women, all covered in scented oils ~] > >> I know I would be a really sucky dancer. But maybe > >> just studying it would bring me into the world of average? > > what to lose? > Hmm, money, time, shame. Okay I lost all of the last one already.
shamelessness as a desireable place? > >> Or maybe it > >> could even have carry-over effects into other body language and the > >> oh so elusive "taking up space with my body" effect people talk > >> about. > > what people talk about that? > I’m not sure exactly but haven’t you ever heard about presence of some > guys who manage to take up space with their bodies? A girl told me once > that if I wanted to work on something, that was one of the things: > taking up more space. That and not looking down nearly as often as I do.
cryptic suggestion. are you looking at your shoes, wondering about them? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >> Anyone have a recomendation for what kind of dancing they’d learn? > >> Swing > >> seems popular, but is it just me or does it look kind of like this > >> dumb 50s thing for people who liked Lawrence Welk? > > no…good to develope partner skills. > >> Maybe salsa > > yes ~ & samba, tango, flamingo, merenge, pachanga, mambo, etc…. > >>or heck even > >> ballroom? > > very cool! cool as in detatched. > Maybe that’s a positive for me. You have to be really straight posture- > wise though, don’t you?
oh yes ~ chin always up, striving for poise. > >> For me, I think Hip Hop is out because > > because it sucks. > You can’t say that. As a style of pure dance it is the real thing. Even > though I’m an idiot who can’t move for shizzle I’ve seen enough of it to > know it’s really artistic (in addtion to brutally athletic) at the > highest level.
can’t get by reprocessed unoriginal bass-obsessed sameness. can’t get by the aggression, sexism, homophobia, & strutting criminality & ignorance. > >> One cool thing about dance > >> class is that I’d get to touch girls even while still in a > >> relationship wait I’m just kidding, no I’m not, yes I am. > > touching strange flesh ~ > > unleashes curiosity-beast. > Some beasts are better off left on their leash I guess.
consciousness colors & distorts instinctual desires, shame mangles animal joy. h
Response:
William P wrote: > August Pamplona <cosmic…@hotmail.com> wrote in > news:3ohutmF60n1oU1@individual.net: >> I went to Gluek’s (http://www.glueks.com/) once for my >> bizarre >>little ONS attempt (it was supposed to be the meeting place). I felt >>it was a great triumph on my part to be there for so long without >>freaking out. > Cool. Did the attempt yield anything?
This was done through Adult FriendFinder. Basically I was going to be in the Twin Cities and I sent a mesage to 19 women in the Twin Cities area saying I would be there over that weekend and how about a ONS. This was done with no real expectation that I’d get a reply. I did it in such a way that proper communication was impossible when someone actually did reply proposing Friday (IIRC, I sent that message on Thursday). I was thinking Saturday so it took me by surprise. I got the impression that the hasty, almost spontaneous nature of the whole thing was part of the fantasy for her. As a result I showed up there a few hours after she expected me there. Apparently she left not that terribly long before I got there (or so she told me). If I hadn’t gotten stopped for speeding and if I hadn’t gotten a little bit lost on the way there I might actually have made it there before she had left the place. >> I don’t drink. I never have. > Never even tried it? Why not?
I’ve tried it in the getting my tongue wet sense strictly to taste it. I also have tried some sherry once because my dad was being a pain in the ass saying that I have to try it because I don’t know what I’m missing (he’s a bit of a sybarite and can’t understand how it can be that I might forego the pleasures of wines and other fine alcoholic beverages). And now that I think about it, I tried to get drunk once well into my thirties when I was alone just to see what it would feel like (it didn’t feel like anything and I just went to bed –maybe I just didn’t give it enough time). Also, for the ONS attempt I mentioned, I was fully prepared to have one and only one glass of Champagne type wine because that was part of the fantasy she described. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> What is this dance thing you speak of? > Read helen’s post it’s a good synopsis. >> I wear stuff that grosses you out a little despite you being >> a really geeky male. > Is there a virtual echo in here? >> I have a relative who has a gym (judo, BJJ, sombo, and some >>flavor of jujutsu –plus some weights in a very ugly, mildewey >>basement). The top floor of the building he has a gym in is used by >>some people who practice dancing (ballroom dancing type stuff, IIRC). >>I can’t fully understand how I could have felt this and it confuses me >>greatly to admit to it but when he was showing us around and I took a >>peek at the dancers, it seemed really nice to me. > Why does it confuse you?
Because it never occurred to me that dancing could ever look appealing to me at any level. The music wasn’t even loud (loud noise really bothers me) and would have been bearable to me while wearing earplugs. > Did you notice the men were very poised and > masculine?
I don’t recall that at all. I suppose it just seemed like it would feel good to do that. > Do you think human movement is a waste of time if the goal isn’t an > asskicking or breaking some joint?
Something like that, actually. August Pamplona — Women bring men they like tasks in much the same way cats put dead mice on their owner’s pillows. – Lola on a.s.s. a.a. # 1811 apatriot #20 Eater of smut Proud member of the reality-based community. The address in this message’s ‘From’ field, in accordance with individual.net’s TOS, is real. However, almost all messages reaching this address are deleted without human intervention. In other words, if you e-mail me there, I will not receive your message. To make sure that e-mail messages actually reach me, make sure that my e-mail address is not hot.
Response:
August Pamplona <cosmic…@hotmail.com> wrote in news:3ohutmF60n1oU1@individual.net: > I went to Gluek’s (http://www.glueks.com/) once for my > bizarre > little ONS attempt (it was supposed to be the meeting place). I felt > it was a great triumph on my part to be there for so long without > freaking out.
Cool. Did the attempt yield anything? > I don’t drink. I never have.
Never even tried it? Why not? > What is this dance thing you speak of?
Read helen’s post it’s a good synopsis. > I wear stuff that grosses you out a little despite you being > a > really geeky male.
Is there a virtual echo in here? > I have a relative who has a gym (judo, BJJ, sombo, and some > flavor of jujutsu –plus some weights in a very ugly, mildewey > basement). The top floor of the building he has a gym in is used by > some people who practice dancing (ballroom dancing type stuff, IIRC). > I can’t fully understand how I could have felt this and it confuses me > greatly to admit to it but when he was showing us around and I took a > peek at the dancers, it seemed really nice to me.
Why does it confuse you? Did you notice the men were very poised and masculine? Do you think human movement is a waste of time if the goal isn’t an asskicking or breaking some joint?
Response:
William P wrote: > This thread is for everything related to those three subjects. > Does anyone here ever go to clubs or bars?
dragged by friends/never alone > What kind of places?
straight/gay college/kink/goth/30s crowd/ethnic/ad infinatum > What do > you drink?
sparkling mineral water, ice, lemon twist margaritas cold rose wine > How do you dance?
by moving my body > What do you wear?
clothes, except alone in apt. (ok ~ dresses, occasionally, men’s suits. junk shop neckties.) > When I was doing the club thing a bit I was pretty boring. It was > basically beer, and I just went for clothing not to stand out, so khakis > and pretty plain button-down shirts. I didn’t know what the hell to do > about shoes.
shoes go on your feet. > Anyone ever learn dance?
parents insisted… > I’ve been thinking of it for a while. Dancing > might be the one activity that I have the least innate talent for. The > only purpose of dance is to display the way you move to other people. And > if I have a big flaw, it’s emotive body language.
take classes… > (Along with poor > conversation ability.)
some people never shut up… > I know I would be a really sucky dancer. But maybe > just studying it would bring me into the world of average?
what to lose? > Or maybe it > could even have carry-over effects into other body language and the oh so > elusive "taking up space with my body" effect people talk about.
what people talk about that? > Anyone have a recomendation for what kind of dancing they’d learn? > Swing > seems popular, but is it just me or does it look kind of like this dumb 50s > thing for people who liked Lawrence Welk?
no…good to develope partner skills. > Maybe salsa
yes ~ & samba, tango, flamingo, merenge, pachanga, mambo, etc…. >or heck even > ballroom?
very cool! cool as in detatched. > For me, I think Hip Hop is out because
because it sucks. > One cool thing about dance > class is that I’d get to touch girls even while still in a relationship > wait I’m just kidding, no I’m not, yes I am.
touching strange flesh ~ unleashes curiosity-beast. h
Response:
William P wrote: > This thread is for everything related to those three subjects. > Does anyone here ever go to clubs or bars?
Not me. > What kind of places?
I went to Gluek’s (http://www.glueks.com/) once for my bizarre little ONS attempt (it was supposed to be the meeting place). I felt it was a great triumph on my part to be there for so long without freaking out. > What do > you drink?
I don’t drink. I never have. > How do you dance?
What is this dance thing you speak of? > What do you wear?
I wear stuff that grosses you out a little despite you being a really geeky male. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> When I was doing the club thing a bit I was pretty boring. It was > basically beer, and I just went for clothing not to stand out, so khakis > and pretty plain button-down shirts. I didn’t know what the hell to do > about shoes. > Anyone ever learn dance? I’ve been thinking of it for a while. Dancing > might be the one activity that I have the least innate talent for. The > only purpose of dance is to display the way you move to other people. And > if I have a big flaw, it’s emotive body language. (Along with poor > conversation ability.) I know I would be a really sucky dancer. But maybe > just studying it would bring me into the world of average? Or maybe it > could even have carry-over effects into other body language and the oh so > elusive "taking up space with my body" effect people talk about. > Anyone have a recomendation for what kind of dancing they’d learn? Swing > seems popular, but is it just me or does it look kind of like this dumb 50s > thing for people who liked Lawrence Welk? Maybe salsa or heck even > ballroom? For me, I think Hip Hop is out because I don’t fit in with the > culture very well and don’t know any rap music. One cool thing about dance > class is that I’d get to touch girls even while still in a relationship > wait I’m just kidding, no I’m not, yes I am.
I have a relative who has a gym (judo, BJJ, sombo, and some flavor of jujutsu –plus some weights in a very ugly, mildewey basement). The top floor of the building he has a gym in is used by some people who practice dancing (ballroom dancing type stuff, IIRC). I can’t fully understand how I could have felt this and it confuses me greatly to admit to it but when he was showing us around and I took a peek at the dancers, it seemed really nice to me. August Pamplona — Women bring men they like tasks in much the same way cats put dead mice on their owner’s pillows. – Lola on a.s.s. a.a. # 1811 apatriot #20 Eater of smut Proud member of the reality-based community. The address in this message’s ‘From’ field, in accordance with individual.net’s TOS, is real. However, almost all messages reaching this address are deleted without human intervention. In other words, if you e-mail me there, I will not receive your message. To make sure that e-mail messages actually reach me, make sure that my e-mail address is not hot.
Response:
This thread is for everything related to those three subjects. Does anyone here ever go to clubs or bars? What kind of places? What do you drink? How do you dance? What do you wear? When I was doing the club thing a bit I was pretty boring. It was basically beer, and I just went for clothing not to stand out, so khakis and pretty plain button-down shirts. I didn’t know what the hell to do about shoes. Anyone ever learn dance? I’ve been thinking of it for a while. Dancing might be the one activity that I have the least innate talent for. The only purpose of dance is to display the way you move to other people. And if I have a big flaw, it’s emotive body language. (Along with poor conversation ability.) I know I would be a really sucky dancer. But maybe just studying it would bring me into the world of average? Or maybe it could even have carry-over effects into other body language and the oh so elusive "taking up space with my body" effect people talk about. Anyone have a recomendation for what kind of dancing they’d learn? Swing seems popular, but is it just me or does it look kind of like this dumb 50s thing for people who liked Lawrence Welk? Maybe salsa or heck even ballroom? For me, I think Hip Hop is out because I don’t fit in with the culture very well and don’t know any rap music. One cool thing about dance class is that I’d get to touch girls even while still in a relationship wait I’m just kidding, no I’m not, yes I am.
Response:
) 
) Thanks, Viktor. 
) — Marina, Frank and Nikki marina (dot) kurten (at) pp (dot) inet (dot) fi Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/ and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki 