Extra Bonus Question: Are you disabled?

Question:

Hi, TJ, My driving fear started with tons of anxiety and then became a phobia.  I’m now more scared that if I ventured onto the highway or interstate I would hurt myself or someone else. What’s NLP? smiles, Elise

No Longer Playing? Naughty Looting Pilgrim? Non Lost Person? Norma Laurie Parsons? or for me… No Longer Pickled! Tony — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, TJ, My driving fear started with tons of anxiety and then became a phobia.  I’m now more scared that if I ventured onto the highway or interstate I would hurt myself or someone else. What’s NLP? smiles, Elise

Hey Rita, I’ll tell you something. Driving on the highway is not nearly as bad as my mind had blown it up to be.  It’s really not bad at all. I don’t like to get on it when it’s busy.  I don’t care for that, but otherwise, I’ve found that I don’t have the patience to take the other roads and sit at stop lights all of the time. Especially with gas prices as high as they are.  I’m not saying I’m totally cured. I don’t ever get on, when I don’t feel some form of hesitance – usually that strikes me just as I am already ON the entrance ramp and have absolutely NO choice but to get on the highway –  but I just have found that what I thought vs. reality is quite different.  It’s good practice for me, because the very best way home from work, well, I have to take the highway.  I did believe that my fear would actually cause me to wreck, but that was just something my mind had created. I won’t push, because the decision to ever try it or not is yours. It’s just that you KNOW I have suffered from this a long time – and I’m doing what I feared for so long.  I know if I can do it, you can. Love, Sally — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Do you think of yourself as being disabled?  Is that a label you try to avoid, or is it accurate? Can you still do most or all of the things you could do before you were ill, or are your abilities now somewhat impaired?

   I don’t. But the question has made me think a lot.    I’m holding down what most normal people would find a stressful job, I’m managing to keep my family intact, despite various pressures over the years, I even sometimes manage to spend a little time on hobbies, though rarely these days.    But it takes so much energy to force myself to do those things, I can’t manage to do a lot of other things. I’ve never been able to learn to drive, and when I’m honest with myself I have to accept that I never will. That keeps me and my family away from a lot of places. I don’t go out much, dealing with the crowds all of the working week makes me spend most of my weekend in the quietest places I can find, recovering my strength for the next week.    And I’ve been like this since I was 12. My whole life is structured around avoiding things I can’t deal with, and making sure I have a way out when the panic hits, and really has been for nearly as long as I can remember. I think a part of the reason I’ve gotten so little help from pdocs is that I’m already in as good a place as I’ll ever be. That and they tend to get distracted by things I don’t consider a problem.    Am I disabled? No one can do everything. I can just do a little less than most. But I can still do more than some. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, TJ, My driving fear started with tons of anxiety and then became a phobia.  I’m now more scared that if I ventured onto the highway or interstate I would hurt myself or someone else. What’s NLP? smiles, Elise

Hi Elise, I don’t understand NLP well enough to explain it  It is something called neuro-linguistic programming, and is supposed to be a way to ‘reprogram’ peoples brains.  There is a famous hypnotist called Paul McKenna who had a TV show in the UK last year where he used NLP to cure a lot of people with quite serious phobias.  Have you tried the conventional ‘desensitisation’ approach for your phobia? — _TJ_ <TJ_IREL at YAHOO dot IE — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, TJ, I have tried a small amount of desensitization with the help of my therapist.  Not much success with it though.  I’ll have to check the NLP out OL and see what it says.  Thanks. smiles, Elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, TJ, My driving fear started with tons of anxiety and then became a phobia. I’m now more scared that if I ventured onto the highway or interstate I would hurt myself or someone else. What’s NLP? smiles, Elise Hi Elise, I don’t understand NLP well enough to explain it  It is something called neuro-linguistic programming, and is supposed to be a way to ‘reprogram’ peoples brains.  There is a famous hypnotist called Paul McKenna who had a TV show in the UK last year where he used NLP to cure a lot of people with quite serious phobias.  Have you tried the conventional ‘desensitisation’ approach for your phobia? — _TJ_ <TJ_IREL at YAHOO dot IE — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, TJ, If it weren’t for my driving issues I wouldn’t feel so impaired.  But seeing how this affects many arts of my life then yes do feel disabled. I still do many of the things I did before and still avoid thing such as public speaking, avoid being in the limelight, etc. smiles, Elise

Do you think of yourself as being disabled?  Is that a label you try to avoid, or is it accurate? Can you still do most or all of the things you could do before you were ill, or are your abilities now somewhat impaired? — _TJ_ <TJ_IREL at YAHOO dot IE — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Do you think of yourself as being disabled?  Is that a label you try to avoid, or is it accurate?

Being disabled is one way to describe me, but it’s not everything I am. The doctors told the government that I am disabled so I can stay home and be miserable instead of having to go OUT THERE and be even more miserable. Can you still do most or all of the things you could do before you were ill, or are your abilities now somewhat impaired?

I don’t have the social skills I used to have. I have more fears and suspicions. I can’t dance or work out or go for walks (part of the depression/ obesity/ social phobia thing)  I can’t hold down a job. The last few times I tried I broke down in the office. When I couldn’t find work after I got my degree at age 48 I just gave up entirely. I used to work 40 hours a week AND have a social life.  I can barely remember what that’s like. Yeah, I’m disabled.  I also make really good spaghetti sauce, I know all the words to "American Pie", and I take damn good care of my mom. I don’t wear a badge with any of these things proclaimed on them. They’re all just facts about me. Deirdre — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Thank you, Elise – that means an awful lot to me (hugs) Deirdre Hi, Deirdre, And we love you for the person you are…  You truly are a good daughter and don’t ever forget that. smiles, Elise Yeah, I’m disabled.  I also make really good spaghetti sauce, I know all the words to "American Pie", and I take damn good care of my mom. I don’t wear a badge with any of these things proclaimed on them. They’re all just facts about me. Deirdre

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, TJ, My driving fear started with tons of anxiety and then became a phobia.  I’m now more scared that if I ventured onto the highway or interstate I would hurt myself or someone else. What’s NLP? smiles, Elise – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Elise.  You seem to have a good, old-fashioned phobia about driving on the highway.  My understanding is that this is one of the easier anxiety-type problems to fix if the approach is right.  Have you ever explored hypnotherapy or NLP?  I am told the results can often be fantastic with these methods. I’m not trying to diminish the severity of your problem as only you really know how bad it is, but it is always good news IMO when you know exactly what you are afraid of.  It’s the poor saps who are afraid of everything or nothing that are really bewildered as there is nothing specific for a therapist to attack. Apologies if you have already tried everything and nothing worked — _TJ_ <TJ_IREL at YAHOO dot IE — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, Deirdre, And we love you for the person you are…  You truly are a good daughter and don’t ever forget that. smiles, Elise Yeah, I’m disabled.  I also make really good spaghetti sauce, I know all the words to "American Pie", and I take damn good care of my mom. I don’t wear a badge with any of these things proclaimed on them. They’re all just facts about me. Deirdre — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, TJ, If it weren’t for my driving issues I wouldn’t feel so impaired.  But seeing how this affects many arts of my life then yes do feel disabled. I still do many of the things I did before and still avoid thing such as public speaking, avoid being in the limelight, etc. smiles, Elise

Hi Elise.  You seem to have a good, old-fashioned phobia about driving on the highway.  My understanding is that this is one of the easier anxiety-type problems to fix if the approach is right.  Have you ever explored hypnotherapy or NLP?  I am told the results can often be fantastic with these methods. I’m not trying to diminish the severity of your problem as only you really know how bad it is, but it is always good news IMO when you know exactly what you are afraid of.  It’s the poor saps who are afraid of everything or nothing that are really bewildered as there is nothing specific for a therapist to attack. Apologies if you have already tried everything and nothing worked — _TJ_ <TJ_IREL at YAHOO dot IE — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Do you think of yourself as being disabled?  Is that a label you try to avoid, or is it accurate? Can you still do most or all of the things you could do before you were ill, or are your abilities now somewhat impaired? —

No.  I feel like my disorders, starting with my "nervous breakdown" (for lack of a better term) have closed some doors, but opened new, better doors for me. I am actually thankful (oh, but I do have my pissy days still, believe me) most of the time for being "ill".  I am more empathetic now, I have more patience, more free time, I can stop and smell the roses, I am more creative, and I appreciate the little things. I know what’s important in life and what’s not.  If I didn’t have anxiety and panic, I don’t know where I would be now, but I’m betting I’d still be on that treadmill, running in the rat race, learning little. Now let’s all sing…"All we need is love…" Dawn — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Do you think of yourself as being disabled?  Is that a label you try to avoid, or is it accurate? Can you still do most or all of the things you could do before you were ill, or are your abilities now somewhat impaired? — _TJ_ <TJ_IREL at YAHOO dot IE

I have a disability.  I don’t put labels on myself. Sally — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes, I am disabled. On the good side, with the use of meds, I can do a lot of things that I couldn’t before…. On the bad side, the side effects of the meds make me not want to do much, and also make me sleep a lot more than 8 hours a day. I just woke up from a much needed 4 hour nap.  If I don’t get enough sleep, it’s a big trigger for more anxiety/panic. If I could do it, I’d trade my anxiety/panic/paranoia and all the meds that go with it for the ability to work 40 hours a week in a heartbeat. Tony I am disabled too.  :-( I suppose there are many types of disability.  Mine is not the same as a blind person’s, or a wheelchair-bound person’s, or even the same as yours.  All I know is I used to be able to do a lot of things ‘normal’ people do without a second thought.  And now I can’t. My meds help some, but certainly not a lot.  CBT helps a little too, but is far from perfect.  I am still in a hole and all the experts I’ve seen are unable to fix me.  I am told I have to get used to anxiety and panic as it can’t be completely cured except in very rare cases.  I find I can cope with it reasonably well if I am not too depressed.  But when I am down I can barely manage my anxiety at all.

Yes, depression is… well, you know.  If I talk about it I may send myself into a depression so I don’t talk about it when I’m not depressed. My condition seems to be very atypical too. When I explain my symptoms no one believes me!  My pdoc doesn’t believe me.  My therapist doesn’t.  My GP didn’t.

I’d be looking for a new pdoc, therapist, and GP! People on ASAPM don’t believe me.  Everyone thinks they know what is going on inside my body better than I do! But I’m the only person who really knows what I’m going through and that is a very lonely feeling.

Well honestly I haven’t followed enough of your posts to form any opinion.  Quite often I have enough to read and reply that I skip many posts.  I’m sorry to hear that you feel the people here at asapm think that way.  I’ll try to remember to check out your posts in the future. On the subject of sleep.  I normally sleep for 10.5 hours a night without meds. No one can tell me why.  With meds I can do 14+ hours easy.  But I have bad insomnia right now so I’m only getting 6-7.  This makes me so tired and anxious all the time I havn’t had a job for 4 years now.  I’m not sure when I’ll work again. I also would give everything I own to be healthy enough to hold down a job like a normal person.  I’m just so sick of being this way.  I’m so sick of being sick. Anyway, that’s my moan for the day done

Hope you feel better tomorrow, even if it’s just a little bit better. Little steps add up to big ones. Tony — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

If I could do it, I’d trade my anxiety/panic/paranoia and all the meds that go with it for the ability to work 40 hours a week in a heartbeat.

Hell yeah, Tony. It would bring some added side benefits as well. Little things like a CAR, holy crap, I would love to own a car. Or a wife. Gotta have one of those. Or a house, or kids. A TV that I could zone out to, good food to eat. Ah well. I may not have any of these things, but I have my cat, and my computer, and that’s enough for now. Ian — http://sundry.ws/ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Do you think of yourself as being disabled?

Yeah, and I’ve sort of fought with the people around me for years to get them to see it too. I don’t bother with the idea that it’s a label I can’t shake off. That pops up occasionally, such as on other Usenet groups, where people hold it against me, but in the main, I have to assert to people what I can and cannot do. I think I’ve been disabled all my life, but I was at a much higher level of functioning when I was younger. I think that when I got on SSDI, I started a slow descent. Maybe that’s because I had nothing to do with my time. Certainly everyone around me feels that way. They think if I just *did* things, I would be able to get off disability. Never mind that I’m too damn tired and stressed out to get anything accomplished. I sometimes have to remind people that I didn’t have to go through the courts, or even through an agency, to apply for disability. I took the bus down to Social Security, filled out the forms, and three months later I was given SSDI and SSI. This means, in other words, that people should *leave me alone* when it comes to all this "well, I think if you just did x or y, you would get better", etc. I really just want the world to get off my back, because it’s heavy, and I have a bad back. Not that I’m bitter. I think part of the problem is that some of my brain functions perfectly well, and I come across as a normie, especially on Usenet. This is because I won’t fake symptoms just to seem consistent. I try my hardest every day to act normal and lead as normal a life as possible, even if that only means getting on the Internet and talking with people. The fact that it then makes me seem normal, and people get on my back, it can’t be helped. Wow. I guess I *am* pretty bitter about all this. It’s been a long long time that I’ve been dealing with all this crap. I never really talk about it, either. Ian — http://sundry.ws/ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Do you think of yourself as being disabled?  Is that a label you try to avoid, or is it accurate? Can you still do most or all of the things you could do before you were ill, or are your abilities now somewhat impaired? — _TJ_ <TJ_IREL at YAHOO dot IE

I don’t.  There are times I have difficulties but I have held jobs during the worst times with this panic.  It is one of those things, in my mind, that if you have it under control (if it’s possible) then it’s like anything else, like diabetes, HBP, etc.  I can’t give in to being disabled although there are times I don’t know how I will do some things I need to do. Vicki — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Do you think of yourself as being disabled?  Is that a label you try to avoid, or is it accurate? Can you still do most or all of the things you could do before you were ill, or are your abilities now somewhat impaired? — _TJ_ <TJ_IREL at YAHOO dot IE — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Do you think of yourself as being disabled?  Is that a label you try to avoid, or is it accurate? Can you still do most or all of the things you could do before you were ill, or are your abilities now somewhat impaired? — _TJ_ <TJ_IREL at YAHOO dot IE

That’s a very interesting question. In the normal run of things I would say that I have to be classed as disabled in order to fit into the social mold that is our society. So, for example, in order to receive Social Security benefits I need to be clased as disabled. That is a necessity since the job market is closed to me because of my condition, and therefore it isn’t possible for me to receive a regular, life-sustaining income in the society as it has evolved into what it is today. Having said that, if we lived in a different type of society which didn’t require a person to have a job as we know it today in order to receive an income, or in a society where money wasn’t the currency for obtaining the things required to live, then maybe I wouldn’t be classed as disabled. Since most jobs require an amount of travel and an interaction with other people, the two things which anxiety sufferers find most difficult, then that fact makes necessary the classification of the sufferer of this condition as disabled. If jobs didn’t require these two things, then perhaps there would be no need for such a classification. If someone has a fear of heights, for example, you can forgive them for not obtaining employment as a mountain rescuer. But this wouldn’t require them to be classed as disabled as there are many other jobs that they can do. A person with a fear of rats wouldn’t go for employment as a sewer worker. They wouldn’t be classified as disabled. But because of the nature of work in our society, anyone with a fear of leaving their house (agoraphobia) or meeting and interacting with people (social phobia) is classed as disabled simply because it rules out 99% of the work opportunities available. But where’s the difference? In all cases the sufferer is afraid of something. The main difference comes in whether they can do a job or not and contribute to the Government’s taxation scheme. In all cases their abilities are impaired in that they are unable to do something. But is it reasonable to expect everyone to be able to do everything? I doubt it. It seems that the classification of disabled depends on the amount of things that a person cannot do, and also the nature of those things. The line is blurred, however, since I’ve seen people in wheelchairs playing basketball and football. They would be classed as disabled, but are able to do more than some anxiety sufferers in the sports field. Yet the anxiety sufferers may well be able to perform tasks better in the home than the wheelchair-bound people. Which is more disabled? I’ve seen wheelchair users holding down jobs, as well as blind and deaf people: all classed as disabled. But if an anxiety sufferer holds down a job, are they still disabled? Not according to our Social Security system, because the disability can’t be seen. So no, I don’t see myself as disabled. That’s merely a classification that I have to use in order to fit into the current social system. Everyone is a person, born equal, but different. If that difference is a slight change in how the brain works, so what? No – not disabled, merely developed in a particular way. Steve. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Do you think of yourself as being disabled?  Is that a label you try to avoid, or is it accurate? Can you still do most or all of the things you could do before you were ill, or are your abilities now somewhat impaired?

Yes, I am disabled. On the good side, with the use of meds, I can do a lot of things that I couldn’t before…. On the bad side, the side effects of the meds make me not want to do much, and also make me sleep a lot more than 8 hours a day.  I just woke up from a much needed 4 hour nap.  If I don’t get enough sleep, it’s a big trigger for more anxiety/panic. If I could do it, I’d trade my anxiety/panic/paranoia and all the meds that go with it for the ability to work 40 hours a week in a heartbeat. Tony — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Yes, I am disabled. On the good side, with the use of meds, I can do a lot of things that I couldn’t before…. On the bad side, the side effects of the meds make me not want to do much, and also make me sleep a lot more than 8 hours a day. I just woke up from a much needed 4 hour nap.  If I don’t get enough sleep, it’s a big trigger for more anxiety/panic. If I could do it, I’d trade my anxiety/panic/paranoia and all the meds that go with it for the ability to work 40 hours a week in a heartbeat. Tony

I am disabled too.  :-( I suppose there are many types of disability.  Mine is not the same as a blind person’s, or a wheelchair-bound person’s, or even the same as yours.  All I know is I used to be able to do a lot of things ‘normal’ people do without a second thought.  And now I can’t. My meds help some, but certainly not a lot.  CBT helps a little too, but is far from perfect.  I am still in a hole and all the experts I’ve seen are unable to fix me.  I am told I have to get used to anxiety and panic as it can’t be completely cured except in very rare cases.  I find I can cope with it reasonably well if I am not too depressed.  But when I am down I can barely manage my anxiety at all. My condition seems to be very atypical too. When I explain my symptoms no one believes me!  My pdoc doesn’t believe me.  My therapist doesn’t.  My GP didn’t.  People on ASAPM don’t believe me.  Everyone thinks they know what is going on inside my body better than I do! But I’m the only person who really knows what I’m going through and that is a very lonely feeling. On the subject of sleep.  I normally sleep for 10.5 hours a night without meds. No one can tell me why.  With meds I can do 14+ hours easy.  But I have bad insomnia right now so I’m only getting 6-7.  This makes me so tired and anxious all the time I havn’t had a job for 4 years now.  I’m not sure when I’ll work again. I also would give everything I own to be healthy enough to hold down a job like a normal person.  I’m just so sick of being this way.  I’m so sick of being sick. Anyway, that’s my moan for the day done — _TJ_ <TJ_IREL at YAHOO dot IE — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

False alarm door bell

Question:

On 2005-01-03, Kreisleriana penned: (mini rant follows) I have one, but I hardly ever use it!  I frankly don’t understand why people use them so much.  People seem mostly to use them to tell other people where they are and where they are going.  When I left home for the first time, I didn’t have to tell anybody where I was or where I was going all the time anymore, and I’m not going to start now that I’m in my 40s.:P  It just never enters my mind to call someone at all the times, for all the reasons that it seems to occur to all these other peopel to call someone I frankly think that you’re making a generalization about cell phone users based on the ones you can actually *see*, who almost by definition are misbehaving.

Well, who else am I going to generalize about?  ;) (snip) Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com

Response:

things to say about Re: False alarm door bell: My mother is one of the others, so that leaves 2 – wonder who they might be???  I bet their mailboxes are crammed with offers from Verixon, Cingular, Virgin….. and a multitude of other providers

That would be my husband and me. — "The universe is quite robust in design and appears to be doing just fine on its own, incompetent support staff notwithstanding. " – the Dennis formerly known as (evil), MCFL

Response:

On 2005-01-03, Kreisleriana penned: I frankly think that you’re making a generalization about cell phone users based on the ones you can actually *see*, who almost by definition are misbehaving. Well, who else am I going to generalize about?  ;)

*grin* True.  But just remember, you’re a cell phone user yourself.  Or at least an owner! — monique, roommate of Oscar the (female) grouch Eros was adopted!  Eros has a home now!  *cheer!*

Response:

I also don’t have call waiting… if you want to, you can wait to talk to me when I get off the phone.  I hate talking on the phone.

Call Waiting was originally introduced for some very specialized applications inside the telephone industry.  Some marketing people offered it to the public, over the complaints of engineers, because it does introduce additional complexity and resource consumption into the telephone switching system. Attempts to drop it as a customer service, however, met with great outcries of complaint.  The industry did some market research, and it’s generally believed the hard-core call waiting advocates find that it somehow gives them status — people are waiting to speak to them. In my home/office, I have two or more lines, advanced caller ID, and some screening features. Unless we need to have a real conversation, email is often the best way to reach me — I have enough filtering that I will get announcements of significant messages. I also hate instant messenger services other than for prearranged conferences, as I find myself more productive without random interruptions.

Response:

BUT, my father is speaking to me again so I’ll keep the cell phone for when I’m out of town.  And for emergencies on the road… not that I’ve ever needed it for that.  In fact, they *cause* more emergencies on the road as far as I can tell.  I’ve seen more people drive into the back of a stopped car because they were yakkin’ on a cell phone than I care to think about.

One of the gas stations on Ft Bragg had a pump that was mangled and torn up for over a month.  The cause?  A woman maneuvering in to use the pump while talking on her cell phone.  I believe she had to pay for a new gas pump. Pam S.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This morning I had just put their 9 Lives down and they were happily devoring it when some commercial on the TV played something similar to our door bell. They were off like a streak to see who’s there. In a minute or so they came back to finish their breakfast when it happened again. We laughed until our sides hurt. Don in Colorado That’s so funny!  Persia doesn’t pay attention to sounds from the television.  *I*, on the other hand, freaked out completely when I was driving to the store one day and I heard a cat meowing.  I knew I didn’t have a cat in my car.  When I got to the store I even popped the hood to see if a cat had somehow gotten up by the engine.  No cat. I didn’t realize until I got back home, it was my cell phone.  I have the ringtone for calls from my long lost love set to a cat meowing.  LOL   Drag me kicking and screaming into the 21st century, I am just not used to cell phones!  Why can’t they just ‘ring’ like a regular phone?

During the Clinton Administration, the "First Family" part of the White House web page had a section on Socks, the First Cat. It included a speech by Socks, both an audio file and a transcript. When I played the audio file, which sounded to me like a fairly annoyed cat, Clifford (RB) and Chatterley (RB) both rushed to the computer. They paid no attention the transcript, which read "MEOW MEOW MEOW" [1] [1] To be distinguished from the Carter Administration’s slogan without     prior consideration of the acronym, declaring fighting inflation as     the "Moral Equivalent Of War."

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On 2005-01-03, Kreisleriana penned: I frankly think that you’re making a generalization about cell phone users based on the ones you can actually *see*, who almost by definition are misbehaving. Well, who else am I going to generalize about?  ;) *grin* True.  But just remember, you’re a cell phone user yourself.  Or at least an owner!

"I don’t just own the company– I’m also a client." Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com

Response:

I swore I’d never own a cell phone.  That was before I developed arthritis in my knees and hips.  And before my daughter moved into a house that had 12 steps up to the front door.  The day after she moved in, I got a cell phone so I could just call and let her know I was there to pick up the kids. I’m deaf so cell phone use gets interesting.  I can’t hear but I can talk. So I can get help when I need it. Jo

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cell phones have enabled a lot fo things I don’t like.  They’ve enabled weasely people to be more weasely under the cover or "courtesy."  They enable clingy people to not be independent (and that goes for husbands, wives, parents, children, AND bosses and employees ).  They enable your boss to invade time that belongs to you.  Etc. etc. <Rant over In our case, cell phones are a blessing.  When we were on the road this summer, we were able to keep in touch and coordinate meetings with biological and RPCA family using the cell phone.  When Rob had his seizure in Denver, we were able to keep his family informed using the cell phone. Here, I have the computer that calls me with jobs using the cell number as that way I can catch work and not have to tie myself to the house from 6-10 pm six days a week.  When Rob got sick, the week before Christmas, the cell phone made it possible for me to find out which hospital they’d taken him to, without traveling to all of them or having to track down a pay phone, dig up the calling card, and so forth. We have the cell in the car in case we have an accident or break-down, with the rule that the driver cannot use the phone unless they have pulled over to the side of the road first. Yes, the cell phone can be used to be rude, or uncaring, but when used as intended, the cell is a godsend. End of counter rant Pam S.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (mini rant follows) I have one, but I hardly ever use it!  I frankly don’t understand why people use them so much.  People seem mostly to use them to tell other people where they are and where they are going.  When I left home for the first time, I didn’t have to tell anybody where I was or where I was going all the time anymore, and I’m not going to start now that I’m in my 40s.:P  It just never enters my mind to call someone at all the times, for all the reasons that it seems to occur to all these other peopel to call someone I’ve noticed that people also use them as kind of an excuse not to be on time.  It’s nice to havce a way to call when you can’t help being late, so as to be courteous.  But I’ve noticed that what many people really do is use the cell to cancel at the last minute, after they have already *made* an appointment.  They’ve just changed their minds about going.  If they didn’t have the cell phone, and couldn’t make that call, they wouldn’t be able to "change" their minds– they would have to just show up. Cell phones have enabled a lot fo things I don’t like.  They’ve enabled weasely people to be more weasely under the cover or "courtesy."  They enable clingy people to not be independent (and that goes for husbands, wives, parents, children, AND bosses and employees ).  They enable your boss to invade time that belongs to you. Etc. etc. <Rant over

Wow, I don’t feel that way at all.  My cell phone is the single best purchase I ever made.  I couldn’t live without it.  It’s to the point that nobody calls our home phone anymore, which is actually good because when I’m at home I’m usually on the internet and they wouldn’t get through anyway.  These days, if my home phone rings, I get very nervous and think it’s an emergency back home. But I use it to get directions from people while I’m enroute somewhere, to find out where somebody is in a huge store or market, obviously for emergencies, etc… Also, here in Thailand it’s very useful to have a cell phone because if you can’t explain to the taxi driver where you want to go, you just call the store and have the person talk to the taxi driver and give directions. And even those calls where you call someone to tell them where you are and what you’re doing are useful because so many times I’ll call a friend and they will be out doing something close to where I am and we decide to meet up.  These days, nobody’s ever at home anymore and if I didn’t have my cell phone I’d never talk to anybody. — Britta Sandpaper kisses, a cuddle and a purr. I have an alarm clock that’s covered in fur! Check out pictures of Vino at: http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – yodeled: the TV played something similar to our door bell. I have the ringtone for calls from my long lost love set to a cat meowing. LOL So what happened to the call from the long lost love?! ;o) I called him back ;o) Drag me kicking and screaming into the 21st century, I am just not used to cell phones!  Why can’t they just ‘ring’ like a regular phone? Jill I agree. I’m one of 4 people in the U.S. who doesn’t have one. Katz Took me until March 2004 to get one, and only then because I was going to be travelling quite a bit. Jill (mini rant follows) I have one, but I hardly ever use it!  I frankly don’t understand why people use them so much.

(snippage) I don’t either.  I’ll be in the grocery store and someone will get a call – "Hey, oh, I’m in the grocery store.  Where are you?"  Like, what difference does it make?  You’re at the grocery store… talk when you get home! I also don’t have call waiting… if you want to, you can wait to talk to me when I get off the phone.  I hate talking on the phone. BUT, my father is speaking to me again so I’ll keep the cell phone for when I’m out of town.  And for emergencies on the road… not that I’ve ever needed it for that.  In fact, they *cause* more emergencies on the road as far as I can tell.  I’ve seen more people drive into the back of a stopped car because they were yakkin’ on a cell phone than I care to think about. Jill

Response:

Cell phones have enabled a lot fo things I don’t like.  They’ve enabled weasely people to be more weasely under the cover or "courtesy."  They enable clingy people to not be independent (and that goes for husbands, wives, parents, children, AND bosses and employees ).  They enable your boss to invade time that belongs to you.  Etc. etc. <Rant over

In our case, cell phones are a blessing.  When we were on the road this summer, we were able to keep in touch and coordinate meetings with biological and RPCA family using the cell phone.  When Rob had his seizure in Denver, we were able to keep his family informed using the cell phone. Here, I have the computer that calls me with jobs using the cell number as that way I can catch work and not have to tie myself to the house from 6-10 pm six days a week.  When Rob got sick, the week before Christmas, the cell phone made it possible for me to find out which hospital they’d taken him to, without traveling to all of them or having to track down a pay phone, dig up the calling card, and so forth. We have the cell in the car in case we have an accident or break-down, with the rule that the driver cannot use the phone unless they have pulled over to the side of the road first. Yes, the cell phone can be used to be rude, or uncaring, but when used as intended, the cell is a godsend. End of counter rant Pam S.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – the TV played something similar to our door bell. Mine sometimes hear a bay crying on the radio & think it’s a cat. LOL. I have the ringtone for calls from my long lost love set to a cat meowing.  LOL So what happened to the call from the long lost love?! ;o) Drag me kicking and screaming into the 21st century, I am just not used to cell phones!  Why can’t they just ‘ring’ like a regular phone? Jill I agree. I’m one of 4 people in the U.S. who doesn’t have one. Katz

My mother is one of the others, so that leaves 2 – wonder who they might be???  I bet their mailboxes are crammed with offers from Verixon, Cingular, Virgin….. and a multitude of other providers — The ONE and ONLY lefthanded-pathetic-paranoid-psychotic-sarcastic-wiseass-ditzy former-blonde in Bloomington! (And proud of it, too)

Science!

Question:

– il mio destino scelgo se riesco a resistere

First of all, I touch little boys. Second, I need to SHUT UP AND STOP BEING GHEY! Third, Science may be cool, if you call licking sperm samples "cool",

then I am "uber" cool – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Fourth, I am owned. — Ask Dr. Science! Remember: He knows MORE than you do.

Response:

Mr. Mulligan,

Burhans, if you want to be accurate.  There is no "Mulligan". Please don’t flame me when I ask you this, it’s just I am rather confused about your point of view.

Oh, he’s just trolling.  He’s become so frustrated with losing argument after argument that he’s descended to a tactic of making faces and calling names instead of addressing issues.

Response:

Mr. Mulligan, Please don’t flame me when I ask you this, it’s just I am rather confused   about your point of view. Why do you believe science and magick are controdictory? quote from Dictonary.com’s definition of the word "science": "The observation, identification, description, experimental investigation,   and theoretical explanation of phenomena. Such activities restricted to a class of natural phenomena. Such activities applied to an object of inquiry or study." Why can’t this be applied to magick? Is magick not a natural phenomena? Is   it not possible to study it, to inquire how it works, and experiment with   it? Are you not confusing *science* in general with current scientific point   of view? (i.e. that physical laws are infalable) Science is search for truth. What if in a couple of decades scientists   *do* discover that we create our own universe and that the laws of physics   can be bent with a thought? My definition of the world "science" is the art of trying to understand   how the universe works and attempts to use the forces of the universe   (whether they be the forces of gravity, electricity or Chi, astral thought   forms) to our advantage. Do you believe that trying to understand how magick works is useless and   we must blindly follow what books and other people tell us? Do you believe   it is wrong to use what we learn about magick to our advantage? I may be   wrong, but from reading some of your posts it is hard to conclude that you   believe those things. I do agree with you that there definately is some arrogance out there   among the people who claim to be scientists. And you are right when you   compare that kind of arrogance with religious dogma. Some people who call   themselves scientists are more interested in proving their theory right to   others than interested in finding out whether the gospel they preach is   actually right. I mean, if you dig deep enough you may find that you are   wrong, and that’s scary to a lot of people. So instead of digging, they   talk and argue. But it’s not just would be scientists that do that. It’s   all sorts of people. Have you never talked to a fellow mage who tells you   that his/her way of doing magick is the only way and that you are nothing   but a fool to do something else? And when you try to give them your point   of view they do not listen and become selectively deaf to anything that   might either disprove their point of view and/or prove yours. A true scientist would never do any of those things. I think a true   scientist would never dismiss magick outright, but instead would be   fascenated with it. He/she whould learn all they can about it and practice   it themselves and experiment with it. I’m not saying that if you’re not   interested in magick you are not a true scientist. People’s interests   very. I’m just saying that a true scientist would not be prejudiced against it. — – Darling ^_^ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – First of all, Boys and Girls, there is one thing that you must clearly understand: I am smarter than you are. I know more than you do. You are ignorant peasants. Who else could believe in this ‘magick’ nonsense? Secondly, you must believe that Science = Truth. Why? Because I say so and I am smarter and more knowledgable than you. Isn’t that logical? You want to be logical, don’t you? There are also millions of others who believe this too. (Of course, more millions believe otherwise, and people can clearly believe just about anything, but you mustn’t doubt! Trust in Dr. Science and He will show you The Way!) Here’s the bottom line: Scientists can’t buy all that very expensive equipment they need to practice their profession, nor the buildings to house it, nor the energy to run it. The there’s maintenance and all of the supplies… Nor the schools and professors to teach them Science in the first place. So we must rely on others to do this for us. As you might imagine, these people make money selling whatever it is they sell, and therefore _we_ must ‘discover’ things that encourage people to buy whatever it is they are selling. And design new things for them to sell. And this is very important: We must suppress any findings that might cause people to quit buying these products. If we don’t, we will be out of not only a job, but we will be secretly black-listed and end up flipping cardboard hamburgers at McDonalds. So the first job of a Science Teacher is to convince people that Technology is the solution to every challenge. Why? Because there is so much money to be made in hi-tech manufacturing, with its dozens of steps, and many, many jobs involved….All those profits to the stockholders…. All those corporate donations to non-profit organizations. All those taxes to the local school districts… This makes our de facto employers very happy. The next thing you must understand is that Science is Neutral. Scientists have no morals. It doesn’t matter whether some corporation or government wants to build tools that will save lives, or weapons of mass destruction. If they will pay us a living wage and give us all of those cool toys to play with, and everyone will treat us as if we are demi-gods, then we will do whatever they want. Here’s the Official Motto of Science. Memorize it! "Just give us billions of dollars and another decade, and Science will solve your problem for you."

Response:

First of all, Boys and Girls, there is one thing that you must clearly understand: I am smarter than you are. I know more than you do. You are ignorant peasants. Who else could believe in this ‘magick’ nonsense? Secondly, you must believe that Science = Truth. Why? Because I say so and I am smarter and more knowledgable than you. Isn’t that logical? You want to be logical, don’t you? There are also millions of others who believe this too. (Of course, more millions believe otherwise, and people can clearly believe just about anything, but you mustn’t doubt! Trust in Dr. Science and He will show you The Way!) Here’s the bottom line: Scientists can’t buy all that very expensive equipment they need to practice their profession, nor the buildings to house it, nor the energy to run it. The there’s maintenance and all of the supplies… Nor the schools and professors to teach them Science in the first place. So we must rely on others to do this for us. As you might imagine, these people make money selling whatever it is they sell, and therefore _we_ must ‘discover’ things that encourage people to buy whatever it is they are selling. And design new things for them to sell. And this is very important: We must suppress any findings that might cause people to quit buying these products. If we don’t, we will be out of not only a job, but we will be secretly black-listed and end up flipping cardboard hamburgers at McDonalds. So the first job of a Science Teacher is to convince people that Technology is the solution to every challenge. Why? Because there is so much money to be made in hi-tech manufacturing, with its dozens of steps, and many, many jobs involved….All those profits to the stockholders…. All those corporate donations to non-profit organizations. All those taxes to the local school districts… This makes our de facto employers very happy. The next thing you must understand is that Science is Neutral. Scientists have no morals. It doesn’t matter whether some corporation or government wants to build tools that will save lives, or weapons of mass destruction. If they will pay us a living wage and give us all of those cool toys to play with, and everyone will treat us as if we are demi-gods, then we will do whatever they want. Here’s the Official Motto of Science. Memorize it! "Just give us billions of dollars and another decade, and Science will solve your problem for you." — Ask Dr. Science! Remember: He knows MORE than you do.

Response:

Hawaiian airlines HORRIBLE

Question:

<snip I guess yout business card reads:    DEWEY SCREWEM AND HOWE    ATTORNEYS AT LAW    SUITS PRESSED WHILE YOU WAIT    A REASONABLE DOUBT FOR A REASONABLE PRICE Be alert for any ambulance coming down the street so you can be there first at the accident.

Does this depth of ignorance come naturally to you, or do you have to work at it?  No, sonny, I don’t chase ambulances.  I work for a major national law firm doing intellectual property litigation.  I represent businesses that have disputes with other businesses, and settle 98% of my matters.  If you want to know the name of my firm, you can spend a little time on google, and it’ll be very easy to find out. Which McDonalds do you work at?

Response:

If you’re flying to Hawaii do your best to avoid using Hawaiian airlines. These bastards completely ruined my vacation.  Here is a list of things that happened to me and why I suggest YOU not use them. 1.      Crushed my bag so badly in handling that they cracked my notebook computer in half and squeezed every bottle of shampoo and toothpaste all over my luggage 2.      Rude customer service that completely ignored me at counter when I brought to there attention that my baggage at been crushed. It actually looked like it was hydraulically crushed in a conveyor belt system. 3.      Charged me $100 to change flight date, the women on the phone screwed up my flight date by 10 hours. Customer service would not help me. Result: I spent the last night of my vacation with my girl friend sleeping on a bench out in the rain. Yes they kicked us out of the terminal!!! 4.      Rude customer service!!!! When I told them they made a mistake about the date change they said it was my fault!!!! When I asked the supervisor (who referred to himself as a different name than that on his ID bag) who I had talked to on the phone about the flight change he refused to help me identify the women. 5.      Oh and just for your information they now charge $5 to watch the in-flight movies

Response:

If you’re flying to Hawaii do your best to avoid using Hawaiian airlines. These bastards completely ruined my vacation.  Here is a list of things that happened to me and why I suggest YOU not use them. 1. Crushed my bag so badly in handling that they cracked my notebook computer in half and squeezed every bottle of shampoo and toothpaste all over my luggage

Was it a hardsided bag or soft? Don’t tell me you packed a computer in a soft sided bag? 2. Rude customer service that completely ignored me at counter when I brought to there attention that my baggage at been crushed. It actually looked like it was hydraulically crushed in a conveyor belt system.

Did you take out insurance on the computer? 3. Charged me $100 to change flight date, the women on the phone screwed up my flight date by 10 hours. Customer service would not help me. Result: I spent the last night of my vacation with my girl friend sleeping on a bench out in the rain. Yes they kicked us out of the terminal!!!

So, you couldn’t spend $100 on the change or $50 on a hotel room or less for a rental car. Then you could avoid the rain. 4. Rude customer service!!!! When I told them they made a mistake about the date change they said it was my fault!!!! When I asked the supervisor (who referred to himself as a different name than that on his ID bag) who I had talked to on the phone about the flight change he refused to help me identify the women.

How is knowing her name going to change the outcome? 5. Oh and just for your information they now charge $5 to watch the in-flight movies

It has been common for many years to have a charge for movies on domestic flights, although this has changed on some airlines. I am sure the $5 is going to keep a lot of people of the plane. I assume price was the number 1 reason for you choosing them.

Response:

If you’re flying to Hawaii do your best to avoid using Hawaiian airlines. These bastards completely ruined my vacation.  Here is a list of things that happened to me and why I suggest YOU not use them. 1. Crushed my bag so badly in handling that they cracked my notebook computer in half and squeezed every bottle of shampoo and toothpaste all over my luggage

Why would anybody check a notebook computer?  Isn’t that asking for trouble? Especially since you can’t lock your bags? 2. Rude customer service that completely ignored me at counter when I brought to there attention that my baggage at been crushed. It actually looked like it was hydraulically crushed in a conveyor belt system.

You could have that happen with any airline.  Some times it is good, some times customer service stinks.  I’d blow that one off. 3. Charged me $100 to change flight date, the women on the phone screwed up my flight date by 10 hours. Customer service would not help me. Result: I spent the last night of my vacation with my girl friend sleeping on a bench out in the rain. Yes they kicked us out of the terminal!!!

Most airlines now charge $100 to change a non refundable ticket.  You owe it to yourself to verify the dates and times. 4. Rude customer service!!!! When I told them they made a mistake about the date change they said it was my fault!!!! When I asked the supervisor (who referred to himself as a different name than that on his ID bag) who I had talked to on the phone about the flight change he refused to help me identify the women. 5. Oh and just for your information they now charge $5 to watch the in-flight movies

All U.S. carriers typically charge for the inflight movies, and $5 is about the norm.  Hawaiian is no different than anyone else.

Response:

All U.S. carriers typically charge for the inflight movies, and $5 is about the norm.  Hawaiian is no different than anyone else.

No, they "all" don’t. I know AA doesn’t charge. They will sell you a headset for $2 if you need one, and you do get to keep it. If you have a headset, there is no charge.  I suspect there are others that don’t charge.

Response:

All U.S. carriers typically charge for the inflight movies, and $5 is about the norm.  Hawaiian is no different than anyone else. No, they "all" don’t. I know AA doesn’t charge. They will sell you a headset for $2 if you need one, and you do get to keep it. If you have a headset, there is no charge.  I suspect there are others that don’t charge.

And its free on AA (and others) on transatlantic flights – I’ve got a collection I like the CO (over the ears, not over the head) ones.

Response:

Why do people insist on taking their electronic devices on holiday with them anyway? That’s the point of going on holiday, to get away from all of that. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you’re flying to Hawaii do your best to avoid using Hawaiian airlines. These bastards completely ruined my vacation.  Here is a list of things that happened to me and why I suggest YOU not use them. 1.    Crushed my bag so badly in handling that they cracked my notebook computer in half and squeezed every bottle of shampoo and toothpaste all over my luggage Was it a hardsided bag or soft? Don’t tell me you packed a computer in a soft sided bag? 2.    Rude customer service that completely ignored me at counter when I brought to there attention that my baggage at been crushed. It actually looked like it was hydraulically crushed in a conveyor belt system. Did you take out insurance on the computer? 3.    Charged me $100 to change flight date, the women on the phone screwed up my flight date by 10 hours. Customer service would not help me. Result: I spent the last night of my vacation with my girl friend sleeping on a bench out in the rain. Yes they kicked us out of the terminal!!! So, you couldn’t spend $100 on the change or $50 on a hotel room or less for a rental car. Then you could avoid the rain. 4.    Rude customer service!!!! When I told them they made a mistake about the date change they said it was my fault!!!! When I asked the supervisor (who referred to himself as a different name than that on his ID bag) who I had talked to on the phone about the flight change he refused to help me identify the women. How is knowing her name going to change the outcome? 5.    Oh and just for your information they now charge $5 to watch the in-flight movies It has been common for many years to have a charge for movies on domestic flights, although this has changed on some airlines. I am sure the $5 is going to keep a lot of people of the plane. I assume price was the number 1 reason for you choosing them.

Response:

Why do people insist on taking their electronic devices on holiday with them anyway? That’s the point of going on holiday, to get away from all of

that. I never travel anywhere without my laptop, it’s my connection to the world and it’s there when _I_ want it.  Electronic devices aren’t just for business travelers.  Besides, on flights these days, there is nothing to do on board and if you have a loaded laptop, time really flies.

Response:

1.  Some people don’t have that luxury. 2.  Electronic devices have other uses besides for business (I use my laptop, among other things, to burn CDs of my digital pictures that I take along the way)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why do people insist on taking their electronic devices on holiday with them anyway? That’s the point of going on holiday, to get away from all of that. If you’re flying to Hawaii do your best to avoid using Hawaiian airlines. These bastards completely ruined my vacation.  Here is a list of things that happened to me and why I suggest YOU not use them. 1.    Crushed my bag so badly in handling that they cracked my notebook computer in half and squeezed every bottle of shampoo and toothpaste all over my luggage Was it a hardsided bag or soft? Don’t tell me you packed a computer in a soft sided bag? 2.    Rude customer service that completely ignored me at counter when I brought to there attention that my baggage at been crushed. It actually looked like it was hydraulically crushed in a conveyor belt system. Did you take out insurance on the computer? 3.    Charged me $100 to change flight date, the women on the phone screwed up my flight date by 10 hours. Customer service would not help me. Result: I spent the last night of my vacation with my girl friend sleeping on a bench out in the rain. Yes they kicked us out of the terminal!!! So, you couldn’t spend $100 on the change or $50 on a hotel room or less for a rental car. Then you could avoid the rain. 4.    Rude customer service!!!! When I told them they made a mistake about the date change they said it was my fault!!!! When I asked the supervisor (who referred to himself as a different name than that on his ID bag) who I had talked to on the phone about the flight change he refused to help me identify the women. How is knowing her name going to change the outcome? 5.    Oh and just for your information they now charge $5 to watch the in-flight movies It has been common for many years to have a charge for movies on domestic flights, although this has changed on some airlines. I am sure the $5 is going to keep a lot of people of the plane. I assume price was the number 1 reason for you choosing them.

Response:

Why do people insist on taking their electronic devices on holiday with them anyway? That’s the point of going on holiday, to get away from all of that.

If my choices are: A) One week with no electronic devices; or B) Three weeks if I take a laptop and agree to check in once a day and spend a couple hours a week dealing with emergencies guess which one I’m gonna choose? miguel — See the world from your web browser: http://travel.u.nu/

Response:

A) One week with no electronic devices; or B) Three weeks if I take a laptop and agree to check in once a day and spend a couple hours a week dealing with emergencies guess which one I’m gonna choose?

C) A job where a 3 week vacation is just that, a vacation, with NO contact with work.  Sounds like time to change jobs!

Response:

Why do people insist on taking their electronic devices on holiday with them anyway? That’s the point of going on holiday, to get away from all of that.

[snip]     That’s the point?  I’m so glad you told everyone.  Here they were thinking they knew the point of their own travels.       Actually, one of the many purposes of many of the travel groups is to discuss the  various reasons folks travel.  You might be amazed at how many different reasons there are.  Hang around a bit, open your mind, listen, you might learn some of them.  You might even like one or two.

Response:

: A) One week with no electronic devices; or : B) Three weeks if I take a laptop and agree to check in once a day and spend : a couple hours a week dealing with emergencies : guess which one I’m gonna choose? :C) A job where a 3 week vacation is just that, a vacation, with :NO contact with work.  Sounds like time to change jobs! Some people have their own businesses or have positions of great responsibility where the lack of contact can causes losses of both money and jobs. Of course, to someone with a McJob such a vacation is not a problem. — http://www.dissensoftware.com

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : A) One week with no electronic devices; or : B) Three weeks if I take a laptop and agree to check in once a day and spend : a couple hours a week dealing with emergencies : guess which one I’m gonna choose? :C) A job where a 3 week vacation is just that, a vacation, with :NO contact with work.  Sounds like time to change jobs! Some people have their own businesses or have positions of great responsibility where the lack of contact can causes losses of both money and jobs.

Work to live, don’t live to work.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – P. : A) One week with no electronic devices; or : B) Three weeks if I take a laptop and agree to check in once a day and spend : a couple hours a week dealing with emergencies : guess which one I’m gonna choose? :C) A job where a 3 week vacation is just that, a vacation, with :NO contact with work.  Sounds like time to change jobs! Some people have their own businesses or have positions of great responsibility where the lack of contact can causes losses of both money and jobs. Work to live, don’t live to work.

You just don’t get it.  My wife and I travel internationally — for pleasure — 2 to 3 times a year, and for 3-4 weeks per trip.  I take my laptop with me, as well as an international cellphone, so that my office and my clients can stay in touch. How do you think I can afford to do this? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

[snip] Work to live, don’t live to work. You just don’t get it.  My wife and I travel internationally — for pleasure — 2 to 3 times a year, and for 3-4 weeks per trip.  I take my laptop with me, as well as an international cellphone, so that my office and my clients can stay in touch. How do you think I can afford to do this?

    His advice it would seem to fall on deaf ears of many professions, and well so.  Some people just don’t understand that independence and responsibility tend to go hand in hand.  The greater of one demands the greater of the other.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [snip] Work to live, don’t live to work. You just don’t get it.  My wife and I travel internationally — for pleasure — 2 to 3 times a year, and for 3-4 weeks per trip.  I take my laptop with me, as well as an international cellphone, so that my office and my clients can stay in touch. How do you think I can afford to do this?     His advice it would seem to fall on deaf ears of many professions, and well so.  Some people just don’t understand that independence and responsibility tend to go hand in hand.  The greater of one demands the greater of the other.

I agree.  You are born into this world to work nonstop every day of your life and when you croak, there may be an inheritance, certainly a few bills left over, perhaps some fighting on how to divide up what you leave behind from the greedy, but there will be nothing left of you.  You lived, you worked, you died. Carve your name in the history books out of that! FYI: I take my laptop everywhere when I travel, rarely for work, always for entertainment.  It’s like a toy.  I used to play gameboy during flights, but the laptop has made travel much less tedious. Our gadgets are not what impose on our leisure time.  In fact, I like to think that gadgets make it possible for us to have more leisure time than ever before.    Those who haul their gadgets on vacation solely for the purpose of staying in touch with work or clients, aren’t very secure in their jobs, and that’s about all there is to it.

Response:

I agree.  You are born into this world to work nonstop every day of your life and when you croak, there may be an inheritance, certainly a few bills left over, perhaps some fighting on how to divide up what you leave behind from the greedy, but there will be nothing left of you.  You lived, you worked, you died.

For some people work can be very fulfilling. The intellectual challenge, the comraderie with colleagues, and the sense of achievement or having made the world a better place can be every bit as rewarding as other non-work pursuits are for others. miguel — See the world from your web browser: http://travel.u.nu/

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I agree.  You are born into this world to work nonstop every day of your life and when you croak, there may be an inheritance, certainly a few bills left over, perhaps some fighting on how to divide up what you leave behind from the greedy, but there will be nothing left of you.  You lived, you worked, you died. For some people work can be very fulfilling. The intellectual challenge, the comraderie with colleagues, and the sense of achievement or having made the world a better place can be every bit as rewarding as other non-work pursuits are for others. miguel —

I agree. My work is very fulfilling, and I enjoy it very much, I can’t imagine doing anything else.  But in order to keep it fulfilling, and enjoyable, I know all too well that I have to take occasional breaks or I’ll burn out and eventually reach the point where I don’t enjoy it as much. There is more to life than work and money (unless you’re a republican) but such is life.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [snip] Work to live, don’t live to work. You just don’t get it.  My wife and I travel internationally — for pleasure — 2 to 3 times a year, and for 3-4 weeks per trip.  I take my laptop with me, as well as an international cellphone, so that my office and my clients can stay in touch. How do you think I can afford to do this?     His advice it would seem to fall on deaf ears of many professions, and well so.  Some people just don’t understand that independence and responsibility tend to go hand in hand.  The greater of one demands the greater of the other. I agree.  You are born into this world to work nonstop every day of your life and when you croak, there may be an inheritance, certainly a few bills left over, perhaps some fighting on how to divide up what you leave behind from the greedy, but there will be nothing left of you.  You lived, you worked, you died. Carve your name in the history books out of that! FYI: I take my laptop everywhere when I travel, rarely for work, always for entertainment.  It’s like a toy.  I used to play gameboy during flights, but the laptop has made travel much less tedious. Our gadgets are not what impose on our leisure time.  In fact, I like to think that gadgets make it possible for us to have more leisure time than ever before.    Those who haul their gadgets on vacation solely for the purpose of staying in touch with work or clients, aren’t very secure in their jobs, and that’s about all there is to it.

Well, I was with you right up until the last.  Sorry but, believe it or not, there are jobs that require time-sensitive management and response that can not be easily delegated.  For example, I don’t have a boss, in the traditional sense of the word.  I am a lawyer.  Though I am employed by my firm, and my contributions to the firm are reviewed annually, I don’t answer to anyone at the firm for how I spend my time.  I do, however, provide services to my clients, who are my real bosses.  I manage my clients’ matters, and junior attorneys, as well as staff, report to me. My clients’ business requires that they have access to me 24/7/365.  If I’m not available for them to consult, they could wind up sued or worse.  For what they pay for my services, and for what I’m paid, I’m more than willing to be available to them whenever I’m required. This has nothing to do with job insecurity; it’s just the nature of the job. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [snip] Work to live, don’t live to work. You just don’t get it.  My wife and I travel internationally — for pleasure — 2 to 3 times a year, and for 3-4 weeks per trip.  I take my laptop with me, as well as an international cellphone, so that my office and my clients can stay in touch. How do you think I can afford to do this?     His advice it would seem to fall on deaf ears of many professions, and well so.  Some people just don’t understand that independence and responsibility tend to go hand in hand.  The greater of one demands the greater of the other. I agree.  You are born into this world to work nonstop every day of your life and when you croak, there may be an inheritance, certainly a few bills left over, perhaps some fighting on how to divide up what you leave behind from the greedy, but there will be nothing left of you.  You lived, you worked, you died. Carve your name in the history books out of that! FYI: I take my laptop everywhere when I travel, rarely for work, always for entertainment.  It’s like a toy.  I used to play gameboy during flights, but the laptop has made travel much less tedious. Our gadgets are not what impose on our leisure time.  In fact, I like to think that gadgets make it possible for us to have more leisure time than ever before.    Those who haul their gadgets on vacation solely for the purpose of staying in touch with work or clients, aren’t very secure in their jobs, and that’s about all there is to it. Well, I was with you right up until the last.  Sorry but, believe it or not, there are jobs that require time-sensitive management and response that can not be easily delegated.  For example, I don’t have a boss, in the traditional sense of the word.  I am a lawyer.  Though I am employed by my firm, and my contributions to the firm are reviewed annually, I don’t answer to anyone at the firm for how I spend my time.  I do, however, provide services to my clients, who are my real bosses.  I manage my clients’ matters, and junior attorneys, as well as staff, report to me. My clients’ business requires that they have access to me 24/7/365.  If I’m not available for them to consult, they could wind up sued or worse.  For what they pay for my services, and for what I’m paid, I’m more than willing to be available to them whenever I’m required. This has nothing to do with job insecurity; it’s just the nature of the job.

To all you indispensible people like PTRAVEL: yyou could die tomorrow and your goddam firm will survive without you.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [snip] Work to live, don’t live to work. You just don’t get it.  My wife and I travel internationally — for pleasure — 2 to 3 times a year, and for 3-4 weeks per trip.  I take my laptop with me, as well as an international cellphone, so that my office and my clients can stay in touch. How do you think I can afford to do this?     His advice it would seem to fall on deaf ears of many professions, and well so.  Some people just don’t understand that independence and responsibility tend to go hand in hand.  The greater of one demands the greater of the other. I agree.  You are born into this world to work nonstop every day of your life and when you croak, there may be an inheritance, certainly a few bills left over, perhaps some fighting on how to divide up what you leave behind from the greedy, but there will be nothing left of you.  You lived, you worked, you died. Carve your name in the history books out of that! FYI: I take my laptop everywhere when I travel, rarely for work, always for entertainment.  It’s like a toy.  I used to play gameboy during flights, but the laptop has made travel much less tedious. Our gadgets are not what impose on our leisure time.  In fact, I like to think that gadgets make it possible for us to have more leisure time than ever before.    Those who haul their gadgets on vacation solely for the purpose of staying in touch with work or clients, aren’t very secure in their jobs, and that’s about all there is to it. Well, I was with you right up until the last.  Sorry but, believe it or not, there are jobs that require time-sensitive management and response that can not be easily delegated.  For example, I don’t have a boss, in the traditional sense of the word.  I am a lawyer.  Though I am employed by my firm, and my contributions to the firm are reviewed annually, I don’t answer to anyone at the firm for how I spend my time.  I do, however, provide services to my clients, who are my real bosses.  I manage my clients’ matters, and junior attorneys, as well as staff, report to me. My clients’ business requires that they have access to me 24/7/365.  If I’m not available for them to consult, they could wind up sued or worse.  For what they pay for my services, and for what I’m paid, I’m more than willing to be available to them whenever I’m required. This has nothing to do with job insecurity; it’s just the nature of the job. To all you indispensible people like PTRAVEL: yyou could die tomorrow and your goddam firm will survive without you.

1.  My firm would survive, but my clients would feel my loss, particularly it my death were to come in the middle of active litigation. 2.  You need to look up the meaning of "arrogant."  Subsumed within the meaning are people like you who feel they have the right to dictate how others should live their lives.  Since I only hear opinions like yours from the hamburger flipping crowd (not that there’s anything wrong with flipping hamburgers for a living), I’m going to guess that you don’t have a clue what it’s like to work in a position of real responsibility. Better get back to work before your boss figures out that you’re wasting time playing on the internet.

Response:

If you’re flying to Hawaii do your best to avoid using Hawaiian airlines

The one complaint I have with Hawaiian airlines is that they use paper tickets–if you lose one, as I did once, you have to buy a second one, even though their systems are all computerized and they can easily fix the problem electronically.  A ticket agent said that’s done on purpose to suppliment revenue for those passengers that occasionally lose their tickets. RL

Response:

If you’re flying to Hawaii do your best to avoid using Hawaiian airlines The one complaint I have with Hawaiian airlines is that they use paper tickets–if you lose one, as I did once, you have to buy a second one, even though their systems are all computerized and they can easily fix the problem electronically.  A ticket agent said that’s done on purpose to suppliment revenue for those passengers that occasionally lose their tickets.

No… that is how all airlines used to do it. Then, you submit a lost ticket form and at some point you usually get a redund..

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [snip] Work to live, don’t live to work. You just don’t get it.  My wife and I travel internationally — for pleasure — 2 to 3 times a year, and for 3-4 weeks per trip.  I take my laptop with me, as well as an international cellphone, so that my office and my clients can stay in touch. How do you think I can afford to do this?     His advice it would seem to fall on deaf ears of many professions, and well so.  Some people just don’t understand that independence and responsibility tend to go hand in hand.  The greater of one demands the greater of the other. I agree.  You are born into this world to work nonstop every day of your life and when you croak, there may be an inheritance, certainly a few bills left over, perhaps some fighting on how to divide up what you leave behind from the greedy, but there will be nothing left of you.  You lived, you worked, you died. Carve your name in the history books out of that! FYI: I take my laptop everywhere when I travel, rarely for work, always for entertainment.  It’s like a toy.  I used to play gameboy during flights, but the laptop has made travel much less tedious. Our gadgets are not what impose on our leisure time.  In fact, I like to think that gadgets make it possible for us to have more leisure time than ever before.    Those who haul their gadgets on vacation solely for the purpose of staying in touch with work or clients, aren’t very secure in their jobs, and that’s about all there is to it. Well, I was with you right up until the last.  Sorry but, believe it or not, there are jobs that require time-sensitive management and response that can not be easily delegated.  For example, I don’t have a boss, in the traditional sense of the word.  I am a lawyer.  Though I am employed by my firm, and my contributions to the firm are reviewed annually, I don’t answer to anyone at the firm for how I spend my time.  I do, however, provide services to my clients, who are my real bosses.  I manage my clients’ matters, and junior attorneys, as well as staff, report to me. My clients’ business requires that they have access to me 24/7/365.  If I’m not available for them to consult, they could wind up sued or worse.  For what they pay for my services, and for what I’m paid, I’m more than willing to be available to them whenever I’m required. This has nothing to do with job insecurity; it’s just the nature of the job. To all you indispensible people like PTRAVEL: yyou could die tomorrow and your goddam firm will survive without you. 1.  My firm would survive, but my clients would feel my loss, particularly it my death were to come in the middle of active litigation. 2.  You need to look up the meaning of "arrogant."  Subsumed within the meaning are people like you who feel they have the right to dictate how others should live their lives.  Since I only hear opinions like yours from the hamburger flipping crowd (not that there’s anything wrong with flipping hamburgers for a living), I’m going to guess that you don’t have a clue what it’s like to work in a position of real responsibility. Better get back to work before your boss figures out that you’re wasting time playing on the internet.

I guess yout business card reads:         DEWEY SCREWEM AND HOWE         ATTORNEYS AT LAW         SUITS PRESSED WHILE YOU WAIT         A REASONABLE DOUBT FOR A REASONABLE PRICE Be alert for any ambulance coming down the street so you can be there first at the accident.

Response:

mastectomy

Question:

Mastectomies are not just for poor women,since Nancy Reagan and actress Ann Jillian have had it done. I agree with the others who responded. It depends on what type of cancer, what stage and size. No one really wants a mastectomy, just as no one really wants to have chemo or radiation. But if it gets rid of the cancer and prolongs life, it’s well worth it. You need to make a decision on the quality of life you want to have from here on out. Bev

Response:

just go along with what the docs are saying and have the mastectomy. my family is within poverty guidelines and my husband and i both get help.   he was diagnosed with lung carcinoids this week and we have no problem removing a LUNG to a 6 cm tumor. i am 3rd generation in my family to have bc. i now have 2 1st cousins battling cancer with all the treatment available, why aren’t you running to the nearest hospital and get that off of you?   when my genetic testing comes back if it is positive i will discuss with my oncol about having them both removed to do sometihing to lessen my odds.   sorry i’m rambling.  (it’s the paxil)   STOP FIGHTING THE DOCTORS AND START FIGHTING THE CANCER111  (sorry, don’t know what came over me.), ok i’ll get off annie’s soapbox now.  

love and prayers,mary rose

help please

Question:

I wish I was a dab hand at grafix, however I’ll try to paint a picture with words. The old antipsychotics worked by blocking dopamine receptors, the new ones do the same but also do some stuff to the seretonin sites too. First off lets talk about a neurone simplified it consists of a big roundish blob called the cell body and a long stalk called an axon.   On the cell bodies surface are tree like structures called dendrites these are in addition to the axon. Now, lets talk about 2 of these neurons (nerve cells) the axon from one nerve cell ALMOST connects to the dendrites of the next nerve cell. I say almost because theres a tiny gap called a synapse. The synapse is where the chemical messengers such as dopomine pass a signal from the end of the axon to the tip(s) of a dendrite. Now different synapses around the brain have different chemical messengers, this is because the brain is awash with all sorts of hormones and "neurotransmitters"(chemical messangers) and the dendrite needs to know that the message it gets comes from the right place. When the second cell gets enough dopamine it "fires" sends an electical impulse down the axon which makes it release neurotransmitters down to the next cell on the network. Now lets take a look at the dendrites. If you taks APs (anti Psychotics) they are chemicals that fit into the receptors on the dendrites and stop it receiving. This effectively shuts down all downstream communications on the network. However the brain is a clever old thing and says hang on a sec ~I havent heard from charlie lately, so a tiny reverse synaptic transfer occurs from cell 3 in this sequence that tells cell 2 hey mat cant you grow some more dendrites you seem to be getting a bit deaf. Cell 2 says oh yeah, I’ve been oversleeping a bit wheres my mate cell 1 he usaully has a chat hasent been in touch for ages. So cell 2 grows more dendrites to make up for the fact that most of them are clogged up with AP shit. So you need more and more APs to clog up more and more receptors. THats why you shouldn’t give APs to normaloes cause it’ll send them mad, by cuasing them to become hypersensitive to dopamine. It’s also why theres no cure cause the treatment makes you worse in the long run. But we’re schizos, so it dosent matter fuck, if we get madder ’cause they can just up thier AP crap as often as they like until they shoot your liver, or your brain gives out completely and you get tardith dementia. By which time your mum and dad are dead and they can get one more fuckhead in a body bag and stop them sucking off the state. On their way home they laugh away in thier mercedes "Fooled them suckers, silly buggers don’t realise I’m cuasing all the symptoms. My, this is the gavy train, I think I’ll put this weeks xs in elly lilly." — WARNING! When trying to withdraw from many psychiatric drugs, patients can develop serious and even life-threatening emotional and physical reactions. In short, it is dangerous not only to start taking psychiatric drugs but also can be hazardous to stop taking them. Therefore, withdrawal from psychiatric drugs should be done under clinical supervision. Principles of drug withdrawal are discussed in Your Drug May Be Your Problem: How and Why to Stop Taking Psychiatric Medications. information on Prozac and Prozac-like drugs can be found in Talking Back to Prozac by Peter R. Breggin, M.D. and Ginger Ross Breggin. DSM IV is the fabrication upon which psychiatry seeks acceptance by medicine in general. Insiders know it is more a political than scientific document. To its credit it says so –Loren R. Mosher, M.D. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->"dzetra" <polarze…@msn.com>    On Thu, 31 Oct 2002 20:59:16 -0800, in alt.support.schizophrenia "dzetra" <polarze…@msn.com>  wrote: >hello, this is my first time posting to this newsgroup and i have some >questions about medications >i used to smoke weed heavily and used psychedelics for about a year and then >i had a breakdown and realized i was dependant on weed. i went to a >psychiatrist and told him everything and he prescribed zyprexa and zoloft >for me >i took the zoloft for a week and could not stand it, i had taken paxil two >years prior and had the same bad reaction (sweating, tremors, bad things). >so i was taken off zoloft and put on zyprexa 5mg…. >i have really bad anxiety all day and it has prevented me from getting >jobs/keeping appointments for school etc. and i am generally still scared of >’life’ >my cousin was prescribed ativan and klonipin and he had given me some pills >one day and they really helped. how can i tell my psychiatrist that i think >i should try out benzodiazapines? i am really scared he’ll think im a junkie >or something if i start out naming drugs and stuff…i just relocated and >seeing him for the first time at the end of november, what do you suggest i >do? >i really think that those pills helped calm me down and they stopped my >fears of people ( i am very self conscious) . >i think the zyprexa is really helping me alot, my mother is on Geodon she is >schizo-affective. my dad got divorced when i was 13 so i dont see him >anymore, but from what i remember he always talked about the government >watching him…if i had known BOTH my parents were schizophrenics i would >never had touched lsd or the mushrooms >i know this is rather long, i never intended it to be but if anyone can help >please write me back.

– I’m not a humanitarian, I’m a hell-raiser."                      -Mother Jones

Response:

I dunno about NA, i’ve gone to a few meetings, but it always felt like I didn’t fit in there…i know there are Marijuana Anonymous meetings but i can’t find any in my area, that’s seems more like what I need. I’ll give it a shot again, thanks "The Black Hills" <pahas…@webtv.net> wrote in message news:396-3DC3EDCB-95@storefull-2117.public.lawson.webtv.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Wow, You tell a story similar to mine. I too got off the weed and could > not function well.Psychotic breaks in the fortnight following cessation > of the cannabis were becoming routine and unavoidable. The suggestions I > have seen already on my server from the regulars here make a good amount > of sense.Minimum medication,perhaps even no medication,definitely no > benzodiazapines.You are a prime candidate for benzodiazapine addiction > and it could kill you.It will take some time for your brain to readjust > to life without the artificial mood elevation/anxiety reduction of > marijuana.I know it sounds crazy to you since they seem to help but the > voice of experience warns that they are like Sirens on the rocks. Be a > good Ulysses.Have you tried Narcotics Anonymous? The only requirement > for membership is a desire to stop using drugs. You might find someone > there who is having some of the same struggles/doesn’t charge a fee/ and > genuinely wants a friend instead of an addition to his caseload. NA has > helped me immensely.It saved my life.

Response:

Wow, You tell a story similar to mine. I too got off the weed and could not function well.Psychotic breaks in the fortnight following cessation of the cannabis were becoming routine and unavoidable. The suggestions I have seen already on my server from the regulars here make a good amount of sense.Minimum medication,perhaps even no medication,definitely no benzodiazapines.You are a prime candidate for benzodiazapine addiction and it could kill you.It will take some time for your brain to readjust to life without the artificial mood elevation/anxiety reduction of marijuana.I know it sounds crazy to you since they seem to help but the voice of experience warns that they are like Sirens on the rocks. Be a good Ulysses.Have you tried Narcotics Anonymous? The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop using drugs. You might find someone there who is having some of the same struggles/doesn’t charge a fee/ and genuinely wants a friend instead of an addition to his caseload. NA has helped me immensely.It saved my life.

Response:

"dzetra" <polarze…@msn.com> wrote in message

news:apunf8$54ngj$5@ID-166074.news.dfncis.de… > what can help me then?

Keep taking the zyprexa. The rest is normal stuff. Lead a healthy productive life as far as you can. Meds can’t make you normal just help a little.

Response:

i was in counseling for months and it didnt seem like it helped, its like i was paying someone to be my ‘friend’ and listen. it didnt help my paranoia either thanks for all the suggestions "Peter Timusk" <ptim…@sympatico.ca> wrote in message

news:o0Dw9.10035$h_4.1494164@news20.bellglobal.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> go as drug free as you can. get with a more diverse psych team that offers > counseling as well as prescriptions. Exlpore your self find out what you > want to do for work. finding the right job makes life at work much easier. > My job causes managable nerosies but I stick it out.

Response:

what can help me then? "Quantum Sleep" <post-your-repl…@thanks.net> wrote in message

news:apu7g2$n63$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Your psychiatrist shouldn’t prescribe benzodiazepines because they are > highly addictive. You shouldn’t take them either because soon you’ll be > getting no benefit from them and be unable to come off them.

Response:

go as drug free as you can. get with a more diverse psych team that offers counseling as well as prescriptions. Exlpore your self find out what you want to do for work. finding the right job makes life at work much easier. My job causes managable nerosies but I stick it out.

Response:

hello, this is my first time posting to this newsgroup and i have some questions about medications i used to smoke weed heavily and used psychedelics for about a year and then i had a breakdown and realized i was dependant on weed. i went to a psychiatrist and told him everything and he prescribed zyprexa and zoloft for me i took the zoloft for a week and could not stand it, i had taken paxil two years prior and had the same bad reaction (sweating, tremors, bad things). so i was taken off zoloft and put on zyprexa 5mg…. i have really bad anxiety all day and it has prevented me from getting jobs/keeping appointments for school etc. and i am generally still scared of ‘life’ my cousin was prescribed ativan and klonipin and he had given me some pills one day and they really helped. how can i tell my psychiatrist that i think i should try out benzodiazapines? i am really scared he’ll think im a junkie or something if i start out naming drugs and stuff…i just relocated and seeing him for the first time at the end of november, what do you suggest i do? i really think that those pills helped calm me down and they stopped my fears of people ( i am very self conscious) . i think the zyprexa is really helping me alot, my mother is on Geodon she is schizo-affective. my dad got divorced when i was 13 so i dont see him anymore, but from what i remember he always talked about the government watching him…if i had known BOTH my parents were schizophrenics i would never had touched lsd or the mushrooms i know this is rather long, i never intended it to be but if anyone can help please write me back.

Response:

Your psychiatrist shouldn’t prescribe benzodiazepines because they are highly addictive. You shouldn’t take them either because soon you’ll be getting no benefit from them and be unable to come off them.

Response:

So you wanna work at the Sawmill…….

Question:

Good post, Ed. Any idea how many BF per day they are putting out? — -Doug in Utah  www.xmission.com/~sherwin/sawyer1.htm

This past week I was asked to temporarily fill in at a local mill I frequent while they found another "hand" to replace someone who had quit. Being one of my most favorite places to go and drool I said sure.   After working there a few days I now have alot more respect for the guys who do it day in and day out. It is hard-ass work for sure. I’m in my mid-forties and was able to hold my own and stay with them, barely. A seven by nine green oak cross tie weighs in over 300 lbs easy.

<snip

Response:

This past week I was asked to temporarily fill in at a local mill I frequent while they found another "hand" to replace someone who had quit. Being one of my most favorite places to go and drool I said sure.   After working there a few days I now have alot more respect for the guys who do it day in and day out. It is hard-ass work for sure. I’m in my mid-forties and was able to hold my own and stay with them, barely. A seven by nine green oak cross tie weighs in over 300 lbs easy. Wrestle those puppies by yourself for awhile and you’ll swear prison guards have it easy….LOL Cuts are common, mashed fingers unavoidable for the most part. I insisted on using gloves but the regulars swore it was easier and safer, believe it or not, to go the bare-handed route. They said you can’t "feel" the wood as you handle it with gloves. The gloves stayed on anyway.   There is no way I could be the "edger." He stands at the sawblade (4 foot circular; no guard possible) and pulls the boards away from the blade as the cut is completed. Then pulls um over to a gang-rip saw for a width cut. There is a constant stream of flying debris he deals with. And when a log has some barbed-wire or nails inside all hell can break loose at the blade. The sawyer’s booth (he’s the guy with the AC) has plexiglass that looks like it was used as target practice by a forty five.   The noise level is comparable to working the flight line on a carrier. Between the whine of the saw going through a cut and the blowpipe sucking dust it is LOUD. All the regulars are mostly deaf. The country music blaring out the fully cranked and battered radios are barely audible. I kept my pod plugs good and tight.   The crapper out back smells great in July! The flies and wasps will make your visit short.   Ah, but the good part! Today we cut walnut and cherry all day long. I ran out of slobber after an hour or two. I couldn’t resist the temptation to pick some of it out. Two walnut boards over 8 foot long, FAS grade, at 13 and 14 inches each. Since I was helping him out in a bind he charged me 30 cents a board foot for the two. I also picked up a small truckload of thin cuts, cross tie cut offs, and culls for free!   They did get they’re new hand hired and I’m glad for that. The pay was nothing to write home about but it was a memorable experience that I will not soon forget.                            Ed (the Termite)

Response:

When I was in school, I worked for an outfit that built cooling towers (Slough-DeFlon).  I was at different times, a draftsman, structural engineer, and when new business was slow, I worked in the yard.  We milled redwood into finished dimensions.  There were swingsaws (cutoff saw), ripsaws, and four sided planers.  Great stuff.  Made sure I got through school.     mahalo,     jo4hn This past week I was asked to temporarily fill in at a local mill I frequent while they found another "hand" to replace someone who had

[snip]

Response:

those kind of jobs, though I sure wouldn’t want to do them for long really enrich one’s experience as a woodworker. You prolly made a friend or two and went home with a bunchof interesting wood. congratulations…         Bridger – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -This past week I was asked to temporarily fill in at a local mill I frequent while they found another "hand" to replace someone who had quit. Being one of my most favorite places to go and drool I said sure.  After working there a few days I now have alot more respect for the guys who do it day in and day out. It is hard-ass work for sure. I’m in my mid-forties and was able to hold my own and stay with them, barely. A seven by nine green oak cross tie weighs in over 300 lbs easy. Wrestle those puppies by yourself for awhile and you’ll swear prison guards have it easy….LOL Cuts are common, mashed fingers unavoidable for the most part. I insisted on using gloves but the regulars swore it was easier and safer, believe it or not, to go the bare-handed route. They said you can’t "feel" the wood as you handle it with gloves. The gloves stayed on anyway.  There is no way I could be the "edger." He stands at the sawblade (4 foot circular; no guard possible) and pulls the boards away from the blade as the cut is completed. Then pulls um over to a gang-rip saw for a width cut. There is a constant stream of flying debris he deals with. And when a log has some barbed-wire or nails inside all hell can break loose at the blade. The sawyer’s booth (he’s the guy with the AC) has plexiglass that looks like it was used as target practice by a forty five.  The noise level is comparable to working the flight line on a carrier. Between the whine of the saw going through a cut and the blowpipe sucking dust it is LOUD. All the regulars are mostly deaf. The country music blaring out the fully cranked and battered radios are barely audible. I kept my pod plugs good and tight.  The crapper out back smells great in July! The flies and wasps will make your visit short.  Ah, but the good part! Today we cut walnut and cherry all day long. I ran out of slobber after an hour or two. I couldn’t resist the temptation to pick some of it out. Two walnut boards over 8 foot long, FAS grade, at 13 and 14 inches each. Since I was helping him out in a bind he charged me 30 cents a board foot for the two. I also picked up a small truckload of thin cuts, cross tie cut offs, and culls for free!  They did get they’re new hand hired and I’m glad for that. The pay was nothing to write home about but it was a memorable experience that I will not soon forget.                           Ed (the Termite)

Response:

I worked at a saw-mill for three weeks one summer while in school. I still have the scars on my forearms. I literally had nightmares about getting into a serious accident so, I quit and went to a better paying and safer job making fuel bundles for nuclear reactors. OK, they were just the zirconium tubes that would eventually be filled with uranium but it was a cool summer job nonetheless. -John

Response:

Good post, Ed. Any idea how many BF per day they are putting out? — -Doug in Utah  www.xmission.com/~sherwin/sawyer1.htm Doug,

       It’s hard to put a figure on BF per day. They cut ALOT of railroad cross ties as well as 2 by and 1 by stuff. I’d estimate that if it was just a day of cutting 1 inch boards maybe 6 or 7 thousand. They want to replace their present carriage for a shorter model that is faster on the cutreturn cycle. Problem with doing that is the "edger" guy will literally be "elbows and …holes" trying to keep up…LOL        It really is hard damn work…I’ve got to know a couple of the old timers who have been there 25+ years and their bodies are mush. Pulled arm ligaments and hands that are screwed up from being mashed too many times. Some of you might be wondering "Why Stay?"; It’s a small rural town of 250 with very little in the way of job opportunities in the area. And, many never got much past 3rd or 4th grade in school. They call it being functionally illiterate. But they are good folk inside. They’re not book smart but you can learn alot from um about wood, don’t kid yourself.                                    Ed

Response:

I worked at a saw-mill for three weeks one summer while in school. I still have the scars on my forearms. I literally had nightmares about getting into a serious accident so, I quit and went to a better paying and safer job making fuel bundles for nuclear reactors. OK, they were just the zirconium tubes that would eventually be filled with uranium but it was a cool summer job nonetheless. -John,

          I got to work a fire alarm job at a nuclear plant several years ago. It was the most frustrating work experience ever. EVERY TIME I removed or made  a wire connection in a panel I had to stop and make an initial notation on a form an escort/observer was holding. I didn’t think I would ever get my job done. And the tool search going in and out of the place was a nightmare.              Ah, the good ole days….                                       Ed

Response:

(Ed

DESPERATE HELP NEEDED, PLEASE?!?

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I haven’t seen Richard’s post,  but the one thing that jumps out at me is that theywere supposedly a Bronze Power Seller, but even with that cash flow, couldn’t get a debit card for their checking account to link to the username. Just another reason to not trust powersellers,  I guess… Bill — I’m just a Bill, yes I’m only a Bill…

There are a lot of people that make mucho but never put it on paper. This bugs me of course as here in *Taxachusetts* we pay much in taxes. This person is SO Unethical. What was she selling anyway? On a different note, other ways dealers are unethical is when I tell someone if they don’t have a valid tax number they have to pay tax, and they say "Well dealer X didn’t charge me" Or "you can ship  it to Delaware", so I don’t have to pay the tax. WRONG! As unless I am shipping with a bonafide shipper and not getting paid right there and then,the person is to be taxed Also,just like people that will ask you what your best price is if you take CASH.  I always tell them *The Exact Same Price* as I always give receipts. Funny how some people will ask that and a dealer will do that BUT still give a receipt! DUH! I dunno some people give dealers a bad name. Paulette~

Response:

<much snippage – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The auction ended on May-09-02 11:03:10 PDT SIX DAYS later she negs the bidder for nonpayment? Six days?     "*PAYMENT MUST BE RECEIVED WITHIN     7 DAYS OF AUCTION CLOSING!!!*     Of course, they want the buyer’s address to be     sent to them within 72 hours.     Clueless. Interesting 50-bid history, too. The FIRST bid was placed about 90 minutes after the auction opened – by someone who also bid on two other items from this seller. If the "friend" got busted, she either let him/her use her account or maybe she’s her own friend. Kris

Good ‘tective stuff as usual, Mr. Baker Ya know, in the couple of years or so I’ve been around AMOE, I don’t believe I’ve seen but (maybe) one or two NARU’d users who complained here and had even a slight leg to stand on. And those were the ones with relatives accounts that were pulled and hence theirs also. —         Mac

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <much snippage The auction ended on May-09-02 11:03:10 PDT SIX DAYS later she negs the bidder for nonpayment? Six days?     "*PAYMENT MUST BE RECEIVED WITHIN     7 DAYS OF AUCTION CLOSING!!!*     Of course, they want the buyer’s address to be     sent to them within 72 hours.     Clueless. Interesting 50-bid history, too. The FIRST bid was placed about 90 minutes after the auction opened – by someone who also bid on two other items from this seller. If the "friend" got busted, she either let him/her use her account or maybe she’s her own friend. Kris Good ‘tective stuff as usual, Mr. Baker

    You’re well-combed, Ms Mac. Ya know, in the couple of years or so I’ve been around AMOE, I don’t believe I’ve seen but (maybe) one or two NARU’d users who complained here  and had even a slight leg to stand on. And those were the ones with relatives accounts that were pulled and hence theirs also. —        Mac

Yeah….I remember those.   They never really told us *what* their relative(s) did, only that their rights had been impinged, expunged, expanded, deflated or whatever. Kris

Response:

Wildwood wrote Maybe she should sue eBay for keeping her records in their primary database even though she’s been NARUed.

Actually, eBay will remove all your info (e.g. all your feedback) from the site (i.e. primary database) upon request.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am in desperate need of assisstance, & can only hope this does not happen to any of you doing business on ebay; particularly sellers.   Out of work & no compensation or jobs in my area, I turned to ebay as a way to squeeze by w/o ending up on the streets. I’ve been selling on ebay for about 2yrs. & had the "Bronze Power Seller" status with well over 1,000 positive feedbacks.  Because I had no credit card, I had to sign up with ebay under a friends credit card; thus, associating my ebay account  with my friends ebay account. Last week I went to check on my ongoing auctions & found that they had all been canceled!  There was no warning or explanation from ebay either.  Finally after sending several frantic emails to them I received a snide, upper-level, unreachable email stating I had been suspended from ebay. After several more emails requesting an explanation, I received a very vague & uppity reply.  I was told my ebay account was suspended indefinately because my account was "associated" to a previously suspended ebay account! I had know idea what this meant &found out later that my friends account had been suspended due to some sort of fraud. Apparently he was selling laptop computers with Windows on them without having some sort of lisence to do so. I wrote to ebay & explained I had no knowledge of this activity & received the same cold unsympathetic reply, as though it was out of my reach & out of their hands. I’ve even called the customer service department & continued writing emails asking, begging & practically pleading for their assisstance in remedying this & the urgency of it  as this is my only source of income- my livlihood!  My pleas  have fallen on "deaf ears" & drastically slow replies. Finally I received a very cold unconcerned email telling me nothing more than that I could not be reinstated to ebay due to my "association" with the suspended account & that thats all they had to say to the matter. I have looked over the ebay user agreement, over & over again, I can not find any such law or rule stating that you can be excommunicated without a detailed explanation (or at least much of one) from ebay by your mere association  to another ebayer!?!  I feel so helpless, I have nowhere to turn & no one to turn to, to help me?! I need help from anyone anywhere, so please, if you can reachout & do so ASAP,  I would be forever greatful. I am a 42 year old unmarried mother of a 25 yearold college educated boy & the line between myself & homelessness has just about disappeared,   I truely need your help & to be reinstated to ebay, PLEASE!? Thank You. Sincerely, Rhonda Rabenold ebuysbest What Richard said — PLUS: This has to be a joke.   You sold on eBay for TWO YEARS using a (creepy and fraudulent) friend’s credit card? Sorry, but the details that you are potentially homeless due to your inability to conduct honest transactions using your own identity gains no sympathy from honest eBay sellers. There is *no way* you could have carried on this well for two years, without considering that maybe you should take things into your own hands.  You have to live with what brought you there. Kris

AND posting in alt.hacker asking someone to "fix" your eBay records doesn’t enhance your credibility. — YMH   Laurie "The point at issue is not whether Maine and Texas may now talk to one another, but rather whether they have anything significant to say." Henry David Thoreau ,  reacting to the news that Maine and Texas had been connected by telegraph lines

Response:

AND posting in alt.hacker asking someone to "fix" your eBay records doesn’t enhance your credibility.

My.  The lady’s grasp of ethics is rather slippery, isn’t it? Deborah Stevenson

Response:

EbuysBest wrote I am in desperate need of assisstance, & can only hope this does not happen to any of you doing business on ebay; particularly sellers.

I think that you have received sound advice on this matter here (and in alt.lawyers, and in us.legal, and even in alt.hacker). While it was already unlikely that your eBay account would be re-instated, you put the final nail in the coffin with your request in alt.hacker. It looks like your eBay selling days are over. Your usenet posting history seems to indicate that in the past you have resorted to desperate measures for income (i.e. spam promoting the sale of prescription drugs without a prescription). I would suggest that you avoid this route this time. This would not make matters any better. association  to another ebayer!?!  I feel so helpless, I have nowhere to turn & no one to turn to, to help me?! I need help from anyone anywhere, so please, if you can reachout & do so ASAP,  I would be forever greatful.  I am a 42 year old unmarried mother of a 25 yearold college educated boy & the line between myself & homelessness has just about disappeared,

If you are in danger of losing your home or becoming unable to feed yourself, please seek out help from agencies in your community — they can help you defer payments on your bills and find new income. You have run a business for two years. This demonstrates that you have valuable skills that can be put to use in any number of ways — you don’t need eBay. The sooner you ask for help, the easier it will be to get through this. You will fare much better if you get help before you miss any (more?) payments. You are in a tight spot, for sure, but you don’t need to feel desparate and helpless

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – better. I am in desperate need of assisstance, & can only hope this does not happen to any of you doing business on ebay; particularly sellers.   Out of work & no compensation or jobs in my area, I turned to ebay as a way to squeeze by w/o ending up on the streets. I’ve been selling on ebay for about 2yrs. & had the "Bronze Power Seller" status with well over 1,000 positive feedbacks.  Because I had no credit card, I had to sign up with ebay under a friends credit card; thus, associating my ebay account  with my friends ebay account. Last week I went to check on my ongoing auctions & found that they had all been canceled!  There was no warning or explanation from ebay either.  Finally after sending several frantic emails to them I received a snide, upper-level, unreachable email stating I had been suspended from ebay. After several more emails requesting an explanation, I received a very vague & uppity reply.  I was told my ebay account was suspended indefinately because my account was "associated" to a previously suspended ebay account! I had know idea what this meant &found out later that my friends account had been suspended due to some sort of fraud. Apparently he was selling laptop computers with Windows on them without having some sort of lisence to do so. I wrote to ebay & explained I had no knowledge of this activity & received the same cold unsympathetic reply, as though it was out of my reach & out of their hands. I’ve even called the customer service department & continued writing emails asking, begging & practically pleading for their assisstance in remedying this & the urgency of it  as this is my only source of income- my livlihood!  My pleas  have fallen on "deaf ears" & drastically slow replies. Finally I received a very cold unconcerned email telling me nothing more than that I could not be reinstated to ebay due to my "association" with the suspended account & that thats all they had to say to the matter. I have looked over the ebay user agreement, over & over again, I can not find any such law or rule stating that you can be excommunicated without a detailed explanation (or at least much of one) from ebay by your mere association  to another ebayer!?!  I feel so helpless, I have nowhere to turn & no one to turn to, to help me?! I need help from anyone anywhere, so please, if you can reachout & do so ASAP,  I would be forever greatful. I am a 42 year old unmarried mother of a 25 yearold college educated boy & the line between myself & homelessness has just about disappeared,   I truely need your help & to be reinstated to ebay, PLEASE!? Thank You. Sincerely, Rhonda Rabenold ebuysbest What Richard said — PLUS: This has to be a joke.   You sold on eBay for TWO YEARS using a (creepy and fraudulent) friend’s credit card? Sorry, but the details that you are potentially homeless due to your inability to conduct honest transactions using your own identity gains no sympathy from honest eBay sellers. There is *no way* you could have carried on this well for two years, without considering that maybe you should take things into your own hands.  You have to live with what brought you there. Kris I haven’t seen Richard’s post,  but the one thing that jumps out at me is that theywere supposedly a Bronze Power Seller, but even with that cash flow, couldn’t get a debit card for their checking account to link to the username. Just another reason to not trust powersellers,  I guess… Bill

Take a look at this.   WHO was selling the laptop computers and got in trouble for it? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2022569596 The auction ended on May-09-02 11:03:10 PDT SIX DAYS later she negs the bidder for nonpayment? Six days?     "*PAYMENT MUST BE RECEIVED WITHIN     7 DAYS OF AUCTION CLOSING!!!*     Of course, they want the buyer’s address to be     sent to them within 72 hours.     Clueless. Interesting 50-bid history, too. The FIRST bid was placed about 90 minutes after the auction opened – by someone who also bid on two other items from this seller. If the "friend" got busted, she either let him/her use her account or maybe she’s her own friend. Kris

Response:

Joyce I love the links in your post. Thanks for sharing…                                 Chocolate, Coffee and Men.                                Some things are just better Rich…

Response:

Rhonda, Rhonda, Rhonda! I was going to let this one go, but this post is just a little too brazen to ignore. Surely you know that if you deal and post on the net for any length of time, particularly under your own ID, you leave a trail a dead bloodhound could find. First, knock off the "poor single-mom" routine. You may be single, with an adult son, and you may be personally financially insecure, but the "almost homeless" number is an insult to all moms (and families) who truly are struggling to keep a roof over their heads. Did you forget you have your address in your ads? Without going further, I think we can safely put that one to rest. And, you’ve been selling online too long in a variety of venues to play the "I didn’t know" number. Surely someone with a degree in criminal justice could have advised you. Didn’t you think to ask? I think what we have here is a case of someone who discovered that they could make a living online and proceeded to do so successfully, but thought they could do it without following the same rules the rest of us are subject to. What happened is what almost inevitably happens when someone thinks they can skirt the rules – you got busted. Hard lesson to learn, wasn’t it? So, what now? Since we can put the "almost homeless" number to rest, consider yourself in the same situation as countless others who have suddenly found themselves out of work. Take stock of what resources you *do* have available, pull yourself back, and start over. Even a child makes himself known by his acts, whether what he does is pure and right.  – Prov 20:11      http://www.rosary.org      http://www.lourdeslife.org

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am in desperate need of assisstance, & can only hope this does not happen to any of you doing business on ebay; particularly sellers.   Out of work & no compensation or jobs in my area, I turned to ebay as a way to squeeze by w/o ending up on the streets. I’ve been selling on ebay for about 2yrs. & had the "Bronze Power Seller" status with well over 1,000 positive feedbacks.  Because I had no credit card, I had to sign up with ebay under a friends credit card; thus, associating my ebay account  with my friends ebay account. Last week I went to check on my ongoing auctions & found that they had all been canceled!  There was no warning or explanation from ebay either.  Finally after sending several frantic emails to them I received a snide, upper-level, unreachable email stating I had been suspended from ebay. After several more emails requesting an explanation, I received a very vague & uppity reply.  I was told my ebay account was suspended indefinately because my account was "associated" to a previously suspended ebay account! I had know idea what this meant &found out later that my friends account had been suspended due to some sort of fraud. Apparently he was selling laptop computers with Windows on them without having some sort of lisence to do so. I wrote to ebay & explained I had no knowledge of this activity & received the same cold unsympathetic reply, as though it was out of my reach & out of their hands. I’ve even called the customer service department & continued writing emails asking, begging & practically pleading for their assisstance in remedying this & the urgency of it  as this is my only source of income- my livlihood!  My pleas  have fallen on "deaf ears" & drastically slow replies. Finally I received a very cold unconcerned email telling me nothing more than that I could not be reinstated to ebay due to my "association" with the suspended account & that thats all they had to say to the matter. I have looked over the ebay user agreement, over & over again, I can not find any such law or rule stating that you can be excommunicated without a detailed explanation (or at least much of one) from ebay by your mere association  to another ebayer!?!  I feel so helpless, I have nowhere to turn & no one to turn to, to help me?! I need help from anyone anywhere, so please, if you can reachout & do so ASAP,  I would be forever greatful.  I am a 42 year old unmarried mother of a 25 yearold college educated boy & the line between myself & homelessness has just about disappeared,   I truely need your help & to be reinstated to ebay, PLEASE!? Thank You. Sincerely, Rhonda Rabenold ebuysbest

I think you’re probably going to have to start all over on eBay with your own credit card. If you managed to build a successful auction business before you can do it again. Secondly, if you have a 25 year old college-educated son, can’t he help you out money-wise in the meantime? David

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am in desperate need of assisstance, & can only hope this does not happen to any of you doing business on ebay; particularly sellers.   Out of work & no compensation or jobs in my area, I turned to ebay as a way to squeeze by w/o ending up on the streets. I’ve been selling on ebay for about 2yrs. & had the "Bronze Power Seller" status with well over 1,000 positive feedbacks.  Because I had no credit card, I had to sign up with ebay under a friends credit card; thus, associating my ebay account  with my friends ebay account. Last week I went to check on my ongoing auctions & found that they had all been canceled!  There was no warning or explanation from ebay either.  Finally after sending several frantic emails to them I received a snide, upper-level, unreachable email stating I had been suspended from ebay. After several more emails requesting an explanation, I received a very vague & uppity reply.  I was told my ebay account was suspended indefinately because my account was "associated" to a previously suspended ebay account! I had know idea what this meant &found out later that my friends account had been suspended due to some sort of fraud. Apparently he was selling laptop computers with Windows on them without having some sort of lisence to do so. I wrote to ebay & explained I had no knowledge of this activity & received the same cold unsympathetic reply, as though it was out of my reach & out of their hands. I’ve even called the customer service department & continued writing emails asking, begging & practically pleading for their assisstance in remedying this & the urgency of it  as this is my only source of income- my livlihood!  My pleas  have fallen on "deaf ears" & drastically slow replies. Finally I received a very cold unconcerned email telling me nothing more than that I could not be reinstated to ebay due to my "association" with the suspended account & that thats all they had to say to the matter. I have looked over the ebay user agreement, over & over again, I can not find any such law or rule stating that you can be excommunicated without a detailed explanation (or at least much of one) from ebay by your mere association  to another ebayer!?!  I feel so helpless, I have nowhere to turn & no one to turn to, to help me?! I need help from anyone anywhere, so please, if you can reachout & do so ASAP,  I would be forever greatful.  I am a 42 year old unmarried mother of a 25 yearold college educated boy & the line between myself & homelessness has just about disappeared,   I truely need your help & to be reinstated to ebay, PLEASE!? Thank You. Sincerely, Rhonda Rabenold ebuysbest

What Richard said — PLUS: This has to be a joke.   You sold on eBay for TWO YEARS using a (creepy and fraudulent) friend’s credit card? Sorry, but the details that you are potentially homeless due to your inability to conduct honest transactions using your own identity gains no sympathy from honest eBay sellers. There is *no way* you could have carried on this well for two years, without considering that maybe you should take things into your own hands.  You have to live with what brought you there. Kris

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am in desperate need of assisstance, & can only hope this does not happen to any of you doing business on ebay; particularly sellers.   Out of work & no compensation or jobs in my area, I turned to ebay as a way to squeeze by w/o ending up on the streets. I’ve been selling on ebay for about 2yrs. & had the "Bronze Power Seller" status with well over 1,000 positive feedbacks.  Because I had no credit card, I had to sign up with ebay under a friends credit card; thus, associating my ebay account  with my friends ebay account. Last week I went to check on my ongoing auctions & found that they had all been canceled!  There was no warning or explanation from ebay either.  Finally after sending several frantic emails to them I received a snide, upper-level, unreachable email stating I had been suspended from ebay. After several more emails requesting an explanation, I received a very vague & uppity reply.  I was told my ebay account was suspended indefinately because my account was "associated" to a previously suspended ebay account! I had know idea what this meant &found out later that my friends account had been suspended due to some sort of fraud. Apparently he was selling laptop computers with Windows on them without having some sort of lisence to do so. I wrote to ebay & explained I had no knowledge of this activity & received the same cold unsympathetic reply, as though it was out of my reach & out of their hands. I’ve even called the customer service department & continued writing emails asking, begging & practically pleading for their assisstance in remedying this & the urgency of it  as this is my only source of income- my livlihood!  My pleas  have fallen on "deaf ears" & drastically slow replies. Finally I received a very cold unconcerned email telling me nothing more than that I could not be reinstated to ebay due to my "association" with the suspended account & that thats all they had to say to the matter. I have looked over the ebay user agreement, over & over again, I can not find any such law or rule stating that you can be excommunicated without a detailed explanation (or at least much of one) from ebay by your mere association  to another ebayer!?!  I feel so helpless, I have nowhere to turn & no one to turn to, to help me?! I need help from anyone anywhere, so please, if you can reachout & do so ASAP,  I would be forever greatful.  I am a 42 year old unmarried mother of a 25 yearold college educated boy & the line between myself & homelessness has just about disappeared,   I truely need your help & to be reinstated to ebay, PLEASE!? Thank You.

I would call customer service and explain the entire situation in detail.  If it sounds like the representative is not going to be cooperative, ask to speak to his supervisor.  Go up the chain as far as you can.  Unfortunately, their official policies are probably not going to work in your favor.  If all else fails, break out the water works.   Break into tears and try to prey on their sympathy for your situation.   Desperate times call for desperate measures. — tcovert

Response:

Are you handicapped ? Is getting a job out of the question ? It’s not all that difficult to open a checking account and get a debit card. Takes maybe 25 bucks. Try TCF bank if theres one by you. Their easy. Sure,losing all the feedback is tough but I don’t see another way. I would say you went beyond "mere association with another buyer’ by basically assuming an identify that wasn’t yours.Any outfit would cut you off for that and give you the cold shoulder. If your using that card to pay your ISP,cell phone ect. its probably a matter of time before they also nail you. nothing like that lasts forever.  Must be quite a good friend to let this go on 2 years plus. Going into denial won’t help. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am in desperate need of assisstance, & can only hope this does not happen to any of you doing business on ebay; particularly sellers.   Out of work & no compensation or jobs in my area, I turned to ebay as a way to squeeze by w/o ending up on the streets. I’ve been selling on ebay for about 2yrs. & had the "Bronze Power Seller" status with well over 1,000 positive feedbacks.  Because I had no credit card, I had to sign up with ebay under a friends credit card; thus, associating my ebay account  with my friends ebay account. Last week I went to check on my ongoing auctions & found that they had all been canceled!  There was no warning or explanation from ebay either.  Finally after sending several frantic emails to them I received a snide, upper-level, unreachable email stating I had been suspended from ebay. After several more emails requesting an explanation, I received a very vague & uppity reply.  I was told my ebay account was suspended indefinately because my account was "associated" to a previously suspended ebay account! I had know idea what this meant &found out later that my friends account had been suspended due to some sort of fraud. Apparently he was selling laptop computers with Windows on them without having some sort of lisence to do so. I wrote to ebay & explained I had no knowledge of this activity & received the same cold unsympathetic reply, as though it was out of my reach & out of their hands. I’ve even called the customer service department & continued writing emails asking, begging & practically pleading for their assisstance in remedying this & the urgency of it  as this is my only source of income- my livlihood!  My pleas  have fallen on "deaf ears" & drastically slow replies. Finally I received a very cold unconcerned email telling me nothing more than that I could not be reinstated to ebay due to my "association" with the suspended account & that thats all they had to say to the matter. I have looked over the ebay user agreement, over & over again, I can not find any such law or rule stating that you can be excommunicated without a detailed explanation (or at least much of one) from ebay by your mere association  to another ebayer!?!  I feel so helpless, I have nowhere to turn & no one to turn to, to help me?! I need help from anyone anywhere, so please, if you can reachout & do so ASAP,  I would be forever greatful.  I am a 42 year old unmarried mother of a 25 yearold college educated boy & the line between myself & homelessness has just about disappeared,   I truely need your help & to be reinstated to ebay, PLEASE!? Thank You. Sincerely, Rhonda Rabenold ebuysbest

Response:

I am in desperate need of assisstance, & can only hope this does not happen to any of you doing business on ebay; particularly sellers.   Out of work & no compensation or jobs in my area, I turned to ebay as a way to squeeze by w/o ending up on the streets. I’ve been selling on ebay for about 2yrs. & had the "Bronze Power Seller" status with well over 1,000 positive feedbacks.  Because I had no credit card, I had to sign up with ebay under a friends credit card; thus, associating my ebay account  with my friends ebay account. Last week I went to check on my ongoing auctions & found that they had all been canceled!  There was no warning or explanation from ebay either.  Finally after sending several frantic emails to them I received a snide, upper-level, unreachable email stating I had been suspended from ebay. After several more emails requesting an explanation, I received a very vague & uppity reply.  I was told my ebay account was suspended indefinately because my account was "associated" to a previously suspended ebay account! I had know idea what this meant &found out later that my friends account had been suspended due to some sort of fraud. Apparently he was selling laptop computers with Windows on them without having some sort of lisence to do so. I wrote to ebay & explained I had no knowledge of this activity & received the same cold unsympathetic reply, as though it was out of my reach & out of their hands. I’ve even called the customer service department & continued writing emails asking, begging & practically pleading for their assisstance in remedying this & the urgency of it  as this is my only source of income- my livlihood!  My pleas  have fallen on "deaf ears" & drastically slow replies. Finally I received a very cold unconcerned email telling me nothing more than that I could not be reinstated to ebay due to my "association" with the suspended account & that thats all they had to say to the matter. I have looked over the ebay user agreement, over & over again, I can not find any such law or rule stating that you can be excommunicated without a detailed explanation (or at least much of one) from ebay by your mere association  to another ebayer!?!  I feel so helpless, I have nowhere to turn & no one to turn to, to help me?! I need help from anyone anywhere, so please, if you can reachout & do so ASAP,  I would be forever greatful.  I am a 42 year old unmarried mother of a 25 yearold college educated boy & the line between myself & homelessness has just about disappeared,   I truely need your help & to be reinstated to ebay, PLEASE!? Thank You. Sincerely, Rhonda Rabenold ebuysbest

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am in desperate need of assisstance, & can only hope this does not happen to any of you doing business on ebay; particularly sellers.   Out of work & no compensation or jobs in my area, I turned to ebay as a way to squeeze by w/o ending up on the streets. I’ve been selling on ebay for about 2yrs. & had the "Bronze Power Seller" status with well over 1,000 positive feedbacks.  Because I had no credit card, I had to sign up with ebay under a friends credit card; thus, associating my ebay account  with my friends ebay account. Last week I went to check on my ongoing auctions & found that they had all been canceled!  There was no warning or explanation from ebay either.  Finally after sending several frantic emails to them I received a snide, upper-level, unreachable email stating I had been suspended from ebay. After several more emails requesting an explanation, I received a very vague & uppity reply.  I was told my ebay account was suspended indefinately because my account was "associated" to a previously suspended ebay account! I had know idea what this meant &found out later that my friends account had been suspended due to some sort of fraud. Apparently he was selling laptop computers with Windows on them without having some sort of lisence to do so. I wrote to ebay & explained I had no knowledge of this activity & received the same cold unsympathetic reply, as though it was out of my reach & out of their hands. I’ve even called the customer service department & continued writing emails asking, begging & practically pleading for their assisstance in remedying this & the urgency of it  as this is my only source of income- my livlihood!  My pleas  have fallen on "deaf ears" & drastically slow replies. Finally I received a very cold unconcerned email telling me nothing more than that I could not be reinstated to ebay due to my "association" with the suspended account & that thats all they had to say to the matter. I have looked over the ebay user agreement, over & over again, I can not find any such law or rule stating that you can be excommunicated without a detailed explanation (or at least much of one) from ebay by your mere association  to another ebayer!?!  I feel so helpless, I have nowhere to turn & no one to turn to, to help me?! I need help from anyone anywhere, so please, if you can reachout & do so ASAP,  I would be forever greatful.  I am a 42 year old unmarried mother of a 25 yearold college educated boy & the line between myself & homelessness has just about disappeared,   I truely need your help & to be reinstated to ebay, PLEASE!? Thank You. Sincerely, Rhonda Rabenold ebuysbest

Your problem began when you signed up with a credit card you didn’t have. Look at it this way, you signed up with someone else’s credit card, essentially using someone else’s identity, and when that person screwed up, your only way to try to resolve the matter was to say "I’m not associated with this person, I’m telling the truth now, I was lying before".  If you were eBay, would you believe you? Your chances of being reinstated by eBay are almost nonexistent.  Your only real chance is to start a new account from scratch, and hope eBay doesn’t find out it is in any way connected with the old one. Richard Ward

Response:

Why didn’t you just use your own debit/check card from a bank? Alot of people use them instead of credit cards. That would have solved the whole problem right there.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am in desperate need of assisstance, & can only hope this does not happen to any of you doing business on ebay; particularly sellers.   Out of work & no compensation or jobs in my area, I turned to ebay as a way to squeeze by w/o ending up on the streets. I’ve been selling on ebay for about 2yrs. & had the "Bronze Power Seller" status with well over 1,000 positive feedbacks.  Because I had no credit card, I had to sign up with ebay under a friends credit card; thus, associating my ebay account  with my friends ebay account. Last week I went to check on my ongoing auctions & found that they had all been canceled!  There was no warning or explanation from ebay either.  Finally after sending several frantic emails to them I received a snide, upper-level, unreachable email stating I had been suspended from ebay. After several more emails requesting an explanation, I received a very vague & uppity reply.  I was told my ebay account was suspended indefinately because my account was "associated" to a previously suspended ebay account! I had know idea what this meant &found out later that my friends account had been suspended due to some sort of fraud. Apparently he was selling laptop computers with Windows on them without having some sort of lisence to do so. I wrote to ebay & explained I had no knowledge of this activity & received the same cold unsympathetic reply, as though it was out of my reach & out of their hands. I’ve even called the customer service department & continued writing emails asking, begging & practically pleading for their assisstance in remedying this & the urgency of it  as this is my only source of income- my livlihood!  My pleas  have fallen on "deaf ears" & drastically slow replies. Finally I received a very cold unconcerned email telling me nothing more than that I could not be reinstated to ebay due to my "association" with the suspended account & that thats all they had to say to the matter. I have looked over the ebay user agreement, over & over again, I can not find any such law or rule stating that you can be excommunicated without a detailed explanation (or at least much of one) from ebay by your mere association  to another ebayer!?!  I feel so helpless, I have nowhere to turn & no one to turn to, to help me?! I need help from anyone anywhere, so please, if you can reachout & do so ASAP,  I would be forever greatful.  I am a 42 year old unmarried mother of a 25 yearold college educated boy & the line between myself & homelessness has just about disappeared,   I truely need your help & to be reinstated to ebay, PLEASE!? Thank You. Sincerely, Rhonda Rabenold ebuysbest

Response:

The Real Cost of War.

Question:

I feel your words and hear your message.  But it is clear America and its people are lost.  Years of carefully planned propaganda through the media has had a great effect for this war effort to finally squash the enemies of Israel (The Arabs), get hold of their resources and reaffirm a secure hold on the 3rd world slave-class. In the words of the hit TV show Survivor.. "Outwit, Outsmart, Outplay" (Greed is GOOD!!) The world gave the Jewish people our sincere sympathies during the holocaust.  And now they receive global condemnation (Excluding the US and UK) for their acts against the Palestinian people. When the division between Palestine and Israel was made with the shared city of Jerusalem between the two states this was fair.  In little over 30 years Israel has produced an army that is far superior to ALL its Arab neighbors combined, including a nuclear arsenal. (They must have sold a LOT of Oranges to get that sort of cash, or in reality it was provided by other "world wide" partners).  They have since used this position of Military might to take Palestinian land, bull-doze Palestinian homes, massacre innocent civilians (Diplomatic Immunity protects President Sharon from a war crimes court for the alleged massacre of 4000 innocent women and children. This case can never go to court without an adjustment to the Diplomatic Immunity law. Where is the U.N. in all of this?  The US talks about peace yet turns a deaf ear to the Palestinian people while it continues to supply Israel military support. Its no wonder these people, caught in this utter hopelessness and injustice do not want to be part of this corrupt world anymore. It is also a sad fact that these people are willing to kill other "Ignorant" but relatively innocent people to express their hopelessness.  THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THE U.S. WANTS AND FOSTERS! The war on terror should have started with the House arrest and enquiry into those military chiefs who were responsible for EMPOWERING the Tali ban regime, AlQADIM and Osama Bin Laden. "YOU REAP WHAT YOU SOW"  And how terrible a seed it is that the U.S. has sown.  The whole world will now suffer for it. — TOP SECRET – UNCLASSIFIED — U.S. Plans Terrorist Acts to kill innocent people and start Cuban war – In the early 1960s, America’s top military leaders reportedly drafted plans to kill innocent people and commit acts of terrorism in U.S. cities to create public support for a war against Cuba. http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/jointchiefs_010501.html DOWNLOAD ONE OF THE PLANS FROM THE NATIONAL SECURITY ARCHIVE HERE http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/ Read and weap.. More info at http://adeonekonade.homestead.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mr. Bush is asking America to support a massive war over the next ten years. We are being asked to support a huge conflict whose enormous costs could well bankrupt America and cause the loss of great numbers of American jobs and lives. This includes using our Social Security money to help pay for this "war". Before we can make such a crucial decision, we deserve to have the whole truth concerning this cataclysmic event. Of course, Mr. Bush did not tell us the truth; he simply repeated the Big Lie put out by the American mass media. Saying that these acts were born out of hatred for freedom is a calculated lie to divert us from associating this disaster with our support for Israel. Associating the attack with our Israeli policy would be bad public relations for Israel and the Jewish Lobby. The last thing they want is for the American people to realize that our unconditional support of Israel has directly led to this disaster. If the American people clearly understand that fact, people might begin to ask a similar question to the one asked by Leslie Stahl, Is our support of Israel really worth it? To keep people from asking that obvious question, the media made up the Big Lie that the men of October 11 were simply crazy, cowardly people who hated freedom and democracy! Just as Jewish Israel-loyalist dominate the mass media, so Congress and the President are afflicted by the Israeli Lobby. It should anger every American to think that the most powerful lobby in Congress is in the service of a foreign nation. Yet, the immense power of the Jewish Lobby is a proven fact, and nobody on capital hill will dare defy this all-powerful lobby. Even one of the most powerful U.S. Senators in American history, William Fulbright, bluntly said on CBS’s Face the Nation, that, Israel controls the U.S. Senate. The rights of American citizens have been usurped by a hard core of Zionists within the US Administration, which place Israeli interests before American interests. So, the unvarnished truth is that we suffered the terror of September 11 because of our support of the criminal policies of Israel. We have let our country be controlled by a foreign lobby that has worked against the best interests of the American people.

Response:

Mr. Bush is asking America to support a massive war over the next ten years. We are being asked to support a huge conflict whose enormous costs could well bankrupt America and cause the loss of great numbers of American jobs and lives. This includes using our Social Security money to help pay for this "war". Before we can make such a crucial decision, we deserve to have the whole truth concerning this cataclysmic event. Of course, Mr. Bush did not tell us the truth; he simply repeated the Big Lie put out by the American mass media. Saying that these acts were born out of hatred for freedom is a calculated lie to divert us from associating this disaster with our support for Israel. Associating the attack with our Israeli policy would be bad public relations for Israel and the Jewish Lobby. The last thing they want is for the American people to realize that our unconditional support of Israel has directly led to this disaster. If the American people clearly understand that fact, people might begin to ask a similar question to the one asked by Leslie Stahl, Is our support of Israel really worth it? To keep people from asking that obvious question, the media made up the Big Lie that the men of October 11 were simply crazy, cowardly people who hated freedom and democracy! Just as Jewish Israel-loyalist dominate the mass media, so Congress and the President are afflicted by the Israeli Lobby. It should anger every American to think that the most powerful lobby in Congress is in the service of a foreign nation. Yet, the immense power of the Jewish Lobby is a proven fact, and nobody on capital hill will dare defy this all-powerful lobby. Even one of the most powerful U.S. Senators in American history, William Fulbright, bluntly said on CBS

Hug

Question:

We, emergency services train for this event. Although we try to take this back to our jobs and co-workers to deaf ears. As much as we prepare it’s tuff to see such loss. Our Township is getting ready to send 50% of its volunteer fire service to New York. at no cost. Hug a volunteer tomorrow of any service.

Response:

Amen from a retired firefighter John Rutz – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We, emergency services train for this event. Although we try to take this back to our jobs and co-workers to deaf ears. As much as we prepare it’s tuff to see such loss. Our Township is getting ready to send 50% of its volunteer fire service to New York. at no cost. Hug a volunteer tomorrow of any service.

Response:

You deserve a thank you. Amen from a retired firefighter John Rutz

Response:

Something that people seem to have overlooked or not stressed sufficiently in my opinion.  Those victims of the crashes themselves had no say in the matter.  I cannot express properly my sense of horror and loss on the fate of those injured/traumatized/murdered by their simply being where they were when the airliners attacked.  But lets also think of those ‘public servants’ whose avocation was to go in and help their fellow man.  The firemen (and women), policemen, those civilians who went in to help, and medical personnel.  These people went into an unstable situation knowing full well that the buildings would most likely collapse.  They did what they had to do.  They did what they wanted to do.  They did this knowing the consequences.  They are all heroes to remember during these dispicable acts….pray for them too. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We, emergency services train for this event. Although we try to take this back to our jobs and co-workers to deaf ears. As much as we prepare it’s tuff to see such loss. Our Township is getting ready to send 50% of its volunteer fire service to New York. at no cost. Hug a volunteer tomorrow of any service.

Response:

All of the things that are being discussed circumvents the word WAR!  That is what we need to do….  Declare War Against Afganistan and other Middle East countries…   I don’t see a problem with this. Nedra

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Something that people seem to have overlooked or not stressed sufficiently in my opinion.  Those victims of the crashes themselves had no say in the matter.  I cannot express properly my sense of horror and loss on the fate of those injured/traumatized/murdered by their simply being where they were when the airliners attacked.  But lets also think of those ‘public servants’ whose avocation was to go in and help their fellow man.  The firemen (and women), policemen, those civilians who went in to help, and medical personnel.  These people went into an unstable situation knowing full well that the buildings would most likely collapse.  They did what they had to do.  They did what they wanted to do.  They did this knowing the consequences.  They are all heroes to remember during these dispicable acts….pray for them too. We, emergency services train for this event. Although we try to take this back to our jobs and co-workers to deaf ears. As much as we prepare it’s tuff to see such loss. Our Township is getting ready to send 50% of its volunteer fire service to New York. at no cost. Hug a volunteer tomorrow of any service.

Response:

There is still the possibility they aren’t involved, why would you want to take out innocent people just to gain some form or revenge??? As the Klingons (yeah star trek) say…… Revenge is a dish best served cold. Give it a little time, it is barely 24 hours since this has happend, many people have been arrested already. It didn’t take us long to find Timothy McVeigh, it won’t take long to find who is responsible for this. Many of them that are involved have already paid with their lives along with those 266 people who went down in the airplanes. Colleen All of the things that are being discussed circumvents the word WAR!  That is what we need to do….  Declare War Against Afganistan and other Middle East countries…   I don’t see a problem with this. Nedra

Response:

 Many of them that are involved have already paid with their lives along with those 266 people who went down in the airplanes. Colleen

I just found out my daughter’s boss’s brother was a co-pilot on the plane that went down near Pittsburgh.  I’ve been worrying over the people in the buildings and forgot about the people on the planes.   I definitely need some time by the pond. — Bonnie NJ http://hpphoto.com/home/ViewMyAlbum.asp?coll_id=876614 http://www.users.fast.net/~maebe/index.htm

Response:

Oh Bonnie, that’s just terrible. I have a feeling many families and friends will be getting shattering news like this. Just breaks my heart. We were relieved to hear our niece, husband and baby daughter are safe within the walls of West Point. I just found out my daughter’s boss’s brother was a co-pilot on the plane that went down near Pittsburgh.  I’ve been worrying over the people in the buildings and forgot about the people on the planes.

k30a-and-the-watergardening-labradors <A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/k30a/myhomepage/writing.html":-) no more green water </A

Response:

There is just to many lives and souls we all need to pray for, it is just a daunting task to even think about. I am literally drained from watching the news.Prayers and hugs to all his loved one’s. Colleen I just found out my daughter’s boss’s brother was a co-pilot on the plane that went down near Pittsburgh.  I’ve been worrying over the people in the buildings and forgot about the people on the planes.   I definitely need some time by the pond. — Bonnie

Response:

We, emergency services train for this event. Although we try to take this back to our jobs and co-workers to deaf ears. As much as we prepare it’s tuff to see such loss. Our Township is getting ready to send 50% of its volunteer fire service to New York. at no cost. Hug a volunteer tomorrow of any service.

Response:

Amen from a retired firefighter John Rutz – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We, emergency services train for this event. Although we try to take this back to our jobs and co-workers to deaf ears. As much as we prepare it’s tuff to see such loss. Our Township is getting ready to send 50% of its volunteer fire service to New York. at no cost. Hug a volunteer tomorrow of any service.

Response:

You deserve a thank you. Amen from a retired firefighter John Rutz

Response:

Something that people seem to have overlooked or not stressed sufficiently in my opinion.  Those victims of the crashes themselves had no say in the matter.  I cannot express properly my sense of horror and loss on the fate of those injured/traumatized/murdered by their simply being where they were when the airliners attacked.  But lets also think of those ‘public servants’ whose avocation was to go in and help their fellow man.  The firemen (and women), policemen, those civilians who went in to help, and medical personnel.  These people went into an unstable situation knowing full well that the buildings would most likely collapse.  They did what they had to do.  They did what they wanted to do.  They did this knowing the consequences.  They are all heroes to remember during these dispicable acts….pray for them too. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We, emergency services train for this event. Although we try to take this back to our jobs and co-workers to deaf ears. As much as we prepare it’s tuff to see such loss. Our Township is getting ready to send 50% of its volunteer fire service to New York. at no cost. Hug a volunteer tomorrow of any service.

Response:

All of the things that are being discussed circumvents the word WAR!  That is what we need to do….  Declare War Against Afganistan and other Middle East countries…   I don’t see a problem with this. Nedra

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Something that people seem to have overlooked or not stressed sufficiently in my opinion.  Those victims of the crashes themselves had no say in the matter.  I cannot express properly my sense of horror and loss on the fate of those injured/traumatized/murdered by their simply being where they were when the airliners attacked.  But lets also think of those ‘public servants’ whose avocation was to go in and help their fellow man.  The firemen (and women), policemen, those civilians who went in to help, and medical personnel.  These people went into an unstable situation knowing full well that the buildings would most likely collapse.  They did what they had to do.  They did what they wanted to do.  They did this knowing the consequences.  They are all heroes to remember during these dispicable acts….pray for them too. We, emergency services train for this event. Although we try to take this back to our jobs and co-workers to deaf ears. As much as we prepare it’s tuff to see such loss. Our Township is getting ready to send 50% of its volunteer fire service to New York. at no cost. Hug a volunteer tomorrow of any service.

Response:

There is still the possibility they aren’t involved, why would you want to take out innocent people just to gain some form or revenge??? As the Klingons (yeah star trek) say…… Revenge is a dish best served cold. Give it a little time, it is barely 24 hours since this has happend, many people have been arrested already. It didn’t take us long to find Timothy McVeigh, it won’t take long to find who is responsible for this. Many of them that are involved have already paid with their lives along with those 266 people who went down in the airplanes. Colleen All of the things that are being discussed circumvents the word WAR!  That is what we need to do….  Declare War Against Afganistan and other Middle East countries…   I don’t see a problem with this. Nedra

Response:

 Many of them that are involved have already paid with their lives along with those 266 people who went down in the airplanes. Colleen

I just found out my daughter’s boss’s brother was a co-pilot on the plane that went down near Pittsburgh.  I’ve been worrying over the people in the buildings and forgot about the people on the planes.   I definitely need some time by the pond. — Bonnie NJ http://hpphoto.com/home/ViewMyAlbum.asp?coll_id=876614 http://www.users.fast.net/~maebe/index.htm

Response:

Oh Bonnie, that’s just terrible. I have a feeling many families and friends will be getting shattering news like this. Just breaks my heart. We were relieved to hear our niece, husband and baby daughter are safe within the walls of West Point. I just found out my daughter’s boss’s brother was a co-pilot on the plane that went down near Pittsburgh.  I’ve been worrying over the people in the buildings and forgot about the people on the planes.

k30a-and-the-watergardening-labradors <A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/k30a/myhomepage/writing.html":-) no more green water </A

Response:

There is just to many lives and souls we all need to pray for, it is just a daunting task to even think about. I am literally drained from watching the news.Prayers and hugs to all his loved one’s. Colleen I just found out my daughter’s boss’s brother was a co-pilot on the plane that went down near Pittsburgh.  I’ve been worrying over the people in the buildings and forgot about the people on the planes.   I definitely need some time by the pond. — Bonnie

Response: