Sensorineural Hearing Loss

Category: Sensorineural Hearing Loss

Suction cleaning can damage hearing.

Question:

"r.e.d." <red-nospam…@mindspring.com> wrote of the risk of suction cleaning. I’ll bet some medics do it better than others. Now on to my rant: Infant incubators! A few years ago I read an article where someone had thought to put a sound meter inside an infant incubater. Too loud to live in 24-7! Lots of people spent days or weeks inside one. Some people likely to be hh from the get-go got major noise exposure on top of originial misfortune. Today there is better awareness of the danger of noise, and most likely incubaters aren’t as loud inside as they used to be. Bill M

Response:

My purpose here is to help prevent others suffering my experience, to learn about other cases like mine and to try to find out what standard medical practice is. I’m a Caucasian male, early 60’s with mild sensorineural hearing loss and two in-the-canal digital aids. Prior to learning about and getting a Dry and Store for the aids, I was getting recurring sores in my ears. On one occasion the irritation and itching became too much and I "walked-in" to the ENT clinic at the local major university hospital/medical school, where I was seen by a resident. The resident decided my ear canals needed cleaning and hooked up an intimidating hollow suction needle to the wall vacuum connector. I had had this done on at least one previous occasion, but this time I noticed particularly that the procedure felt cold, windy and, especially, loud in my ear canals. I commented on the noise during the procedure but don’t remember getting a response from the resident. A few minutes later I noticed a problem – one ear seemed dead. They gave me a hearing test and found a pronounced loss in one ear. The resident called in his professor "boss," who recommended nothing be done and to wait and see what happened. They scheduled multiple follow-up appointments. It improved slightly, I think, but remains damaged to this day, about 18 months later. I found two references (given below) documenting hearing damage from high noise levels during suction cleaning. At one follow-up I showed them to the resident, who had never seen them and who had asked his colleagues and said that no one he talked to had ever heard of this happening. I don’t think he questioned that the damage was caused by the suction procedure. My question for this newsgroup is, has anyone else heard of it? Is suction cleaning considered dangerous anywhere, if not for everyone, then for those with a history of hearing loss? You can reach your own conclusions – which for me are, I will not allow suction cleaning any more. The references: D. Katzke, "Hearing loss caused by cleaning the external ear canal with a metal suction tube" (author’s translation), HNO (1982) vol.30, 113 (in German). HNO is a German ear-nose-throat medical journal. And Katzke’s detailed follow-up study: Dieter Katzke and Gunter Sesterhenn (Tubingen, West Germany), "Suction-generated noise in the external meatus and senorineural hearing loss," The Journal of Laryngology and Otology, September 1982, Vol.96, pp.857-863. The first of these documents hearing loss due to suction cleaning in two patients, an otherwise healthy 17-year-old girl and a 56-year-old man with previous sensorineural hearing loss. Both suffered loss due to suction cleaning. The girl recovered in 3 days; the man did not, even after immediate hospitalization and various treatments. The second article (in English) documents experiments to measure the sound levels experienced during suction cleaning and also summarizes the cases of the two patients. Just prior to the paper’s Summary the authors state: "The patients presented illustrate that some individuals are much more susceptible to noise, and that an ear with a previous sensorineural deficit is even more at risk. Sound pressure levels that would cause permanent damage in one individual (Case 2) would cause only temporary (Case 1) or no damage in another." — Reply to "red99" (not "rednospam99") @mindspring.com

Response:

Sensorineural Hearing Loss

0 RESPONSES

My Audiogram

Question:

Susan <susanbl…@snet.net> wrote in message <news:MPG.1be88b8f9fb429aa9896fd@news.snet.sbcglobal.net>…

= > > i disagree in the sense that more then once poor discrim scores (that > > did not corilate with other findings) were the first indication of an > > acoustic neuroma.

I’d be careful not to over-interpret discrim scores as they are quite flawed in many ways, number one being the small sample of words used. Research shows the discrim scores are not clinically significant until over 1000 words are presented. Using only 25 or 50 word lists discredits the test as a diagnostic tool. Sure asymmetrical scores should be noted but it’s definitely not a gold standard test for retrocochlear pathology. Discrimination testing is a great when used as a counseling tool to demonstrate to the patient and family the effects of the hearing loss and/or lack of visual cues and it is also a good tool to use for a predictor or hearing aid benefit. Don’t get me wrong I notate any asymmetrical scores and suggest further evaluation but I don’t think it’s as serious of a red flag as it once was thought to be. If you think about it, today a 20% difference is considered "significant" by most audiologists. That’s only a FIVE word difference when using a 25 word list. And I’d bet the majority of audiologists use a 25 word list most of the time.

Response:

See that’s the thing. When I was having that test, I’d "hear" the one one way, but knew it to be another. Because I use the phone often with the work that I do I’ve learned to adapt to the way certain words are said. yet there were some words I couldn’t make out at all and others I had had no trouble with. thx again rk — "montag" <mon…@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:ad74617f.0410270546.7d0e3a71@posting.google.com… > Susan <susanbl…@snet.net> wrote in message

<news:MPG.1be88b8f9fb429aa9896fd@news.snet.sbcglobal.net>… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> = > > > i disagree in the sense that more then once poor discrim scores (that > > > did not corilate with other findings) were the first indication of an > > > acoustic neuroma. > I’d be careful not to over-interpret discrim scores as they are quite > flawed in many ways, number one being the small sample of words used. > Research shows the discrim scores are not clinically significant until > over 1000 words are presented. Using only 25 or 50 word lists > discredits the test as a diagnostic tool. Sure asymmetrical scores > should be noted but it’s definitely not a gold standard test for > retrocochlear pathology. Discrimination testing is a great when used > as a counseling tool to demonstrate to the patient and family the > effects of the hearing loss and/or lack of visual cues and it is also > a good tool to use for a predictor or hearing aid benefit. > Don’t get me wrong I notate any asymmetrical scores and suggest > further evaluation but I don’t think it’s as serious of a red flag as > it once was thought to be. If you think about it, today a 20% > difference is considered "significant" by most audiologists. That’s > only a FIVE word difference when using a 25 word list. And I’d bet the > majority of audiologists use a 25 word list most of the time.

Response:

I thought the posting of the audiogram via the j0j0 link was pretty cool. So wanting to find out more about it/them linked to j0j0zerolimit.net and received the response: "Pick a directory you know.. or stay the fuck out!" So I really cooled on that one. Cheers, D… "RK" <x…@xxx.net> wrote in message

news:fjJed.30785$5v2.25217@fe2.columbus.rr.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> If I can get a few opinions on which HA’s would best suit my need, I’d > appreciate it. I’ve an appt. > to go back to further discuss this with my audiologist but I’d like some > feedback prior. > Kind of like going in fully armed. > http://j0j0.zerolimit.net/audiogram_current.gif > Right now, I’ve really not much trouble on the phone as my phone has a > volume control on it, with it set > to "high" I can usually do quite well. > I work at home, and don’t venture out many places. > The most troubles I have is when i’m out in a crowd of ppl, I have a hard > time, figuring out where and who > is speaking. The TV is a major problem. Turning up the volume often > doesn’t help, just distorts the words > more. Hubby hates CC so to keep peace, I don’t even argue any longer. My > family also says I’ve always > "talked" loud, but I think I speak too low, as I barely hear myself. I’ve > always wondered as well, others tell > me my voice is very "soft and feminine" whereas I hear it as very low and > often hard. Is there a reason for > that? Just wondering. > I’ve had a mild loss most of my life which resulted from massive ear > infections as a baby and child up till my teens. > Even now when I get a head or chest cold, it never fails to not settle in my > ears and I end up with another > infection. I also had a bad case of the mumps when I was 12, as well as > tubes twice back in the late 60’s early 70’s. > So any feedback is appreciated. > Thx. > R.

Response:

….and that’s why some things are meant to remain private without those online snooping about. — RK "Donald Wilgus" <dwil…@prodigy.net> wrote in message

news:f79hd.14874$Rf1.1761@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I thought the posting of the audiogram via the j0j0 link was pretty cool. > So wanting to find out more about it/them linked to j0j0zerolimit.net and > received the response: > "Pick a directory you know.. or stay the fuck out!" > So I really cooled on that one. > Cheers, > D… > "RK" <x…@xxx.net> wrote in message > news:fjJed.30785$5v2.25217@fe2.columbus.rr.com… > > If I can get a few opinions on which HA’s would best suit my need, I’d > > appreciate it. I’ve an appt. > > to go back to further discuss this with my audiologist but I’d like some > > feedback prior. > > Kind of like going in fully armed. > > http://j0j0.zerolimit.net/audiogram_current.gif > > Right now, I’ve really not much trouble on the phone as my phone has a > > volume control on it, with it set > > to "high" I can usually do quite well. > > I work at home, and don’t venture out many places. > > The most troubles I have is when i’m out in a crowd of ppl, I have a hard > > time, figuring out where and who > > is speaking. The TV is a major problem. Turning up the volume often > > doesn’t help, just distorts the words > > more. Hubby hates CC so to keep peace, I don’t even argue any longer. My > > family also says I’ve always > > "talked" loud, but I think I speak too low, as I barely hear myself. I’ve > > always wondered as well, others tell > > me my voice is very "soft and feminine" whereas I hear it as very low and > > often hard. Is there a reason for > > that? Just wondering. > > I’ve had a mild loss most of my life which resulted from massive ear > > infections as a baby and child up till my teens. > > Even now when I get a head or chest cold, it never fails to not settle in > my > > ears and I end up with another > > infection. I also had a bad case of the mumps when I was 12, as well as > > tubes twice back in the late 60’s early 70’s. > > So any feedback is appreciated. > > Thx. > > R.

Response:

I "thought" it was a clever way to present data. But if you use responses such as that, you are fortunate in not hearing their replies. "RK" <x…@xxx.net> wrote in message

news:Kj9hd.82138$5v2.27941@fe2.columbus.rr.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> ….and that’s why > some things are meant to remain private without > those online snooping about. > — > RK > "Donald Wilgus" <dwil…@prodigy.net> wrote in message > news:f79hd.14874$Rf1.1761@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com… > > I thought the posting of the audiogram via the j0j0 link was pretty > cool. > > So wanting to find out more about it/them linked to j0j0zerolimit.net and > > received the response: > > "Pick a directory you know.. or stay the fuck out!" > > So I really cooled on that one. > > Cheers, > > D… > > "RK" <x…@xxx.net> wrote in message > > news:fjJed.30785$5v2.25217@fe2.columbus.rr.com… > > > If I can get a few opinions on which HA’s would best suit my need, I’d > > > appreciate it. I’ve an appt. > > > to go back to further discuss this with my audiologist but I’d like some > > > feedback prior. > > > Kind of like going in fully armed. > > > http://j0j0.zerolimit.net/audiogram_current.gif > > > Right now, I’ve really not much trouble on the phone as my phone has a > > > volume control on it, with it set > > > to "high" I can usually do quite well. > > > I work at home, and don’t venture out many places. > > > The most troubles I have is when i’m out in a crowd of ppl, I have a > hard > > > time, figuring out where and who > > > is speaking. The TV is a major problem. Turning up the volume often > > > doesn’t help, just distorts the words > > > more. Hubby hates CC so to keep peace, I don’t even argue any longer. > My > > > family also says I’ve always > > > "talked" loud, but I think I speak too low, as I barely hear myself. > I’ve > > > always wondered as well, others tell > > > me my voice is very "soft and feminine" whereas I hear it as very low > and > > > often hard. Is there a reason for > > > that? Just wondering. > > > I’ve had a mild loss most of my life which resulted from massive ear > > > infections as a baby and child up till my teens. > > > Even now when I get a head or chest cold, it never fails to not settle > in > > my > > > ears and I end up with another > > > infection. I also had a bad case of the mumps when I was 12, as well as > > > tubes twice back in the late 60’s early 70’s. > > > So any feedback is appreciated. > > > Thx. > > > R.

Response:

LOL gotta love it, I’m the "bad guy" because you can’t go snooping around my private online area? That I wish to have some things private accessable online and keep it hidden, I’m now the "jerk"? Please.. — RK "Donald Wilgus" <dwil…@prodigy.net> wrote in message

news:Kfbhd.25624$Qv5.13986@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I "thought" it was a clever way to present data. But if you use responses > such as that, you are fortunate in not hearing their replies. > "RK" <x…@xxx.net> wrote in message > news:Kj9hd.82138$5v2.27941@fe2.columbus.rr.com… > > ….and that’s why > > some things are meant to remain private without > > those online snooping about. > > — > > RK > > "Donald Wilgus" <dwil…@prodigy.net> wrote in message > > news:f79hd.14874$Rf1.1761@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com… > > > I thought the posting of the audiogram via the j0j0 link was pretty > > cool. > > > So wanting to find out more about it/them linked to j0j0zerolimit.net > and > > > received the response: > > > "Pick a directory you know.. or stay the fuck out!" > > > So I really cooled on that one. > > > Cheers, > > > D… > > > "RK" <x…@xxx.net> wrote in message > > > news:fjJed.30785$5v2.25217@fe2.columbus.rr.com… > > > > If I can get a few opinions on which HA’s would best suit my need, > I’d > > > > appreciate it. I’ve an appt. > > > > to go back to further discuss this with my audiologist but I’d like > some > > > > feedback prior. > > > > Kind of like going in fully armed. > > > > http://j0j0.zerolimit.net/audiogram_current.gif > > > > Right now, I’ve really not much trouble on the phone as my phone has a > > > > volume control on it, with it set > > > > to "high" I can usually do quite well. > > > > I work at home, and don’t venture out many places. > > > > The most troubles I have is when i’m out in a crowd of ppl, I have a > > hard > > > > time, figuring out where and who > > > > is speaking. The TV is a major problem. Turning up the volume often > > > > doesn’t help, just distorts the words > > > > more. Hubby hates CC so to keep peace, I don’t even argue any longer. > > My > > > > family also says I’ve always > > > > "talked" loud, but I think I speak too low, as I barely hear myself. > > I’ve > > > > always wondered as well, others tell > > > > me my voice is very "soft and feminine" whereas I hear it as very low > > and > > > > often hard. Is there a reason for > > > > that? Just wondering. > > > > I’ve had a mild loss most of my life which resulted from massive ear > > > > infections as a baby and child up till my teens. > > > > Even now when I get a head or chest cold, it never fails to not settle > > in > > > my > > > > ears and I end up with another > > > > infection. I also had a bad case of the mumps when I was 12, as well > as > > > > tubes twice back in the late 60’s early 70’s. > > > > So any feedback is appreciated. > > > > Thx. > > > > R.

Response:

If I can get a few opinions on which HA’s would best suit my need, I’d appreciate it. I’ve an appt. to go back to further discuss this with my audiologist but I’d like some feedback prior. Kind of like going in fully armed. http://j0j0.zerolimit.net/audiogram_current.gif Right now, I’ve really not much trouble on the phone as my phone has a volume control on it, with it set to "high" I can usually do quite well. I work at home, and don’t venture out many places. The most troubles I have is when i’m out in a crowd of ppl, I have a hard time, figuring out where and who is speaking. The TV is a major problem. Turning up the volume often doesn’t help, just distorts the words more. Hubby hates CC so to keep peace, I don’t even argue any longer. My family also says I’ve always "talked" loud, but I think I speak too low, as I barely hear myself. I’ve always wondered as well, others tell me my voice is very "soft and feminine" whereas I hear it as very low and often hard. Is there a reason for that? Just wondering. I’ve had a mild loss most of my life which resulted from massive ear infections as a baby and child up till my teens. Even now when I get a head or chest cold, it never fails to not settle in my ears and I end up with another infection. I also had a bad case of the mumps when I was 12, as well as tubes twice back in the late 60’s early 70’s. So any feedback is appreciated. Thx. R.

Response:

In article <fjJed.30785$5v2.25…@fe2.columbus.rr.com>, "RK" <x…@xxx.net> wrote: > Hubby hates CC so to keep peace, I don’t even argue any longer.

This seems bizarre to me — that he can’t make a reasonable accommodation. Do others have this issue with spouses? — http://www.mindspring.com/~slywy/

Response:

My wife does not like it when I use closed captioning. She gives me a hard time unless she also has difficulty understanding the dialogue (she will not go to foreign films with subtitles). Instead I use a telecoil loop, which makes it very hard to hear anyone else talk even with my HE program for T + M. "Diane L. Schirf" <del…@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:q1Ned.7311$ta5.4970@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In article <fjJed.30785$5v2.25…@fe2.columbus.rr.com>, > "RK" <x…@xxx.net> wrote: >> Hubby hates CC so to keep peace, I don’t even argue any longer. > This seems bizarre to me — that he can’t make a reasonable > accommodation. Do others have this issue with spouses? > — > http://www.mindspring.com/~slywy/

Response:

As a 37 year old with a moderate hearing loss I would recommend (for what its worth) BTE HE’s with multiple programs with a telecoil. I am very satisfied with my GN Resound Canta 7. The multiple programs are vital for a 37 year old. My programs consist of the following. 1. Normal 2. Restaurant 3. Telecoil + Microphone 4. Directional microphone with mild noise reduction. I use this for business meetings with several people. "RK" <x…@xxx.net> wrote in message

news:fjJed.30785$5v2.25217@fe2.columbus.rr.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> If I can get a few opinions on which HA’s would best suit my need, I’d > appreciate it. I’ve an appt. > to go back to further discuss this with my audiologist but I’d like some > feedback prior. > Kind of like going in fully armed. > http://j0j0.zerolimit.net/audiogram_current.gif > Right now, I’ve really not much trouble on the phone as my phone has a > volume control on it, with it set > to "high" I can usually do quite well. > I work at home, and don’t venture out many places. > The most troubles I have is when i’m out in a crowd of ppl, I have a hard > time, figuring out where and who > is speaking. The TV is a major problem. Turning up the volume often > doesn’t help, just distorts the words > more. Hubby hates CC so to keep peace, I don’t even argue any longer. My > family also says I’ve always > "talked" loud, but I think I speak too low, as I barely hear myself. I’ve > always wondered as well, others tell > me my voice is very "soft and feminine" whereas I hear it as very low and > often hard. Is there a reason for > that? Just wondering. > I’ve had a mild loss most of my life which resulted from massive ear > infections as a baby and child up till my teens. > Even now when I get a head or chest cold, it never fails to not settle in > my > ears and I end up with another > infection. I also had a bad case of the mumps when I was 12, as well as > tubes twice back in the late 60’s early 70’s. > So any feedback is appreciated. > Thx. > R.

Response:

RK wrote; "I work at home, and don’t venture out many places." This is the beginning of the end, RK. You better get as much help as you can get, as quickly as you can get it. Bill M "RK" <x…@xxx.net> wrote in message

Response:

why do you say that Bill? — "Bill M" <bmag…@nethere.com> wrote in message

news:1098755331.184888@news-1.nethere.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> RK wrote; > "I work at home, and don’t venture out many places." > This is the beginning of the end, RK. You better get as much help as you > can get, as quickly as you can get it. > Bill M > "RK" <x…@xxx.net> wrote in message > news:fjJed.30785$5v2.25217@fe2.columbus.rr.com… > > If I can get a few opinions on which HA’s would best suit my need, I’d > > appreciate it. I’ve an appt. > > to go back to further discuss this with my audiologist but I’d like some > > feedback prior. > > Kind of like going in fully armed. > > http://j0j0.zerolimit.net/audiogram_current.gif > > Right now, I’ve really not much trouble on the phone as my phone has a > > volume control on it, with it set > > to "high" I can usually do quite well. > > I work at home, and don’t venture out many places. > > The most troubles I have is when i’m out in a crowd of ppl, I have a hard > > time, figuring out where and who > > is speaking. The TV is a major problem. Turning up the volume often > > doesn’t help, just distorts the words > > more. Hubby hates CC so to keep peace, I don’t even argue any longer. My > > family also says I’ve always > > "talked" loud, but I think I speak too low, as I barely hear myself. I’ve > > always wondered as well, others tell > > me my voice is very "soft and feminine" whereas I hear it as very low and > > often hard. Is there a reason for > > that? Just wondering. > > I’ve had a mild loss most of my life which resulted from massive ear > > infections as a baby and child up till my teens. > > Even now when I get a head or chest cold, it never fails to not settle in > my > > ears and I end up with another > > infection. I also had a bad case of the mumps when I was 12, as well as > > tubes twice back in the late 60’s early 70’s. > > So any feedback is appreciated. > > Thx. > > R.

Response:

My advice on a pair of aids is to really invest, you are a prime reason why technology would not be wasted. Get all the bells and whistles, I like the Divas, but there is a strong triano advocate here (siemens is not my favorite, but I can’t argue with success) You would get a longer life and more flexibilty with BTES, so that is the best solution. It isn’t always the favorite choice. My actual beef is with the audiologist. I feel that I have to be the best audiologist in the world because I always seem to find problems with other hearing tests. Your word discrimination scores were excellent, but the tests (repeat a list of 25 words at a constant volume) were given at an MCL (most comfortable level) of 60 and 55 dB. You have a flat 50-60 dB sensorineural hearing loss. I find it hard to believe that you did that well at your threshold and it cannot be you MCL, that is almost a normal hearing persons MCL (40-50). It is rule of thumb to present that list at about 40 dB above SRT (speech reception threshold-repeat two sylable familiar words until you can’t hear them) which would have been about 90-85 dB. Honestly I wouldn’t go that loud, probably about 75. Eitherway the audiologist made a mistake in testing or in recording data. The point of the discrim test is not to see how soft you can hear, but how well you can do when it is loud enough to dicriminate. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

thanks susan for your reply. funny thing about the word discrimination test, there were many words that I did fumble on, but because I’m so used to "knowing" what the right word sounds like, I was able to know the difference between the two of them, which I’d say it both ways. I’m not sure if that had a bearing on it or not. I’ve an appointment this afternoon, for another consult. thanks again, I think I’m a bit more armed now. I do have another question, if you don’t mind. I have adult onset iddm and smoke, my ent said that more then likely also will continue to cause more of a loss over time. can you shed any light on that? RK "Susan" <susanbl…@snet.net> wrote in message

news:MPG.1be7a5dc7ebe540c9896f8@news.snet.sbcglobal.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My advice on a pair of aids is to really invest, you are a prime reason > why technology would not be wasted. Get all the bells and whistles, I > like the Divas, but there is a strong triano advocate here (siemens is > not my favorite, but I can’t argue with success) You would get a longer > life and more flexibilty with BTES, so that is the best solution. It > isn’t always the favorite choice. > My actual beef is with the audiologist. I feel that I have to be the > best audiologist in the world because I always seem to find problems > with other hearing tests. Your word discrimination scores were > excellent, but the tests (repeat a list of 25 words at a constant > volume) were given at an MCL (most comfortable level) of 60 and 55 dB. > You have a flat 50-60 dB sensorineural hearing loss. I find it hard to > believe that you did that well at your threshold and it cannot be you > MCL, that is almost a normal hearing persons MCL (40-50). It is rule of > thumb to present that list at about 40 dB above SRT (speech reception > threshold-repeat two sylable familiar words until you can’t hear them) > which would have been about 90-85 dB. Honestly I wouldn’t go that loud, > probably about 75. Eitherway the audiologist made a mistake in testing > or in recording data. The point of the discrim test is not to see how > soft you can hear, but how well you can do when it is loud enough to > dicriminate.

Response:

Susan <susanbl…@snet.net> wrote in message <news:MPG.1be7a5dc7ebe540c9896f8@news.snet.sbcglobal.net>…

Eitherway the audiologist made a mistake in testing > or in recording data.

I’d suspect this was a recording error. Regardless, discrim scores are pretty useless due to the small sample number used (usually 25 to 50 word lists). Speech discrimination (Word Recognition Ability) is a nice tool for counseling but it serves little diagnostic value. No achieve statistically significant results, one would need to present over 1500 words per ear. I don’t have a link to the research but it’s out there.

Response:

i disagree in the sense that more then once poor discrim scores (that did not corilate with other findings) were the first indication of an acoustic neuroma. In article <ad74617f.0410260615.5f08…@posting.google.com>, mon…@gmail.com says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Susan <susanbl…@snet.net> wrote in message <news:MPG.1be7a5dc7ebe540c9896f8@news.snet.sbcglobal.net>… > Eitherway the audiologist made a mistake in testing > > or in recording data. > I’d suspect this was a recording error. Regardless, discrim scores > are pretty useless due to the small sample number used (usually 25 to > 50 word lists). Speech discrimination (Word Recognition Ability) is a > nice tool for counseling but it serves little diagnostic value. No > achieve statistically significant results, one would need to present > over 1500 words per ear. I don’t have a link to the research but it’s > out there.

Response:

could you explain further please. thx. "Susan" <susanbl…@snet.net> wrote in message

news:MPG.1be8720e5f44bad29896fa@news.snet.sbcglobal.net… > i disagree in the sense that more then once poor discrim scores (that > did not corilate with other findings) were the first indication of an > acoustic neuroma. > In article <ad74617f.0410260615.5f08…@posting.google.com>, > mon…@gmail.com says… > > Susan <susanbl…@snet.net> wrote in message

<news:MPG.1be7a5dc7ebe540c9896f8@news.snet.sbcglobal.net>… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Eitherway the audiologist made a mistake in testing > > > or in recording data. > > I’d suspect this was a recording error. Regardless, discrim scores > > are pretty useless due to the small sample number used (usually 25 to > > 50 word lists). Speech discrimination (Word Recognition Ability) is a > > nice tool for counseling but it serves little diagnostic value. No > > achieve statistically significant results, one would need to present > > over 1500 words per ear. I don’t have a link to the research but it’s > > out there.

Response:

A patient with a flat/sloping moderate to mod-severe loss has 100% in one ear and 50% in the other. Something is going on..patient may not even realize it until they try to put the phone to the bad ear, and they may never do that. There is also a "roll-over" test in where the words are given at an increased level and if discrimination decreases within more then a standard devation of the original test, there is good indication of a retro-cochlear pathology. just an abstract: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi? cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=7213210&dopt=Abstract taken from: http://www.audstudent.com/tutorials/speech/tests/tests.htm Roll-over testing is repeating the word recognition testing at a higher intensity level. Normally, the word understanding would remain essentially the same, if not improve. In some cases, the word understanding will decrease and be abnormal. This is a sign of possible retrocochlear hearing loss. When the ear with a damaged nervous system is stimulated with a very loud sound, the nerves may be unable to handle the increased signal load. Consider this analogy. If you injured your arm, you might be able to lift a small weight, but would be unable to lift a heavy weight. Similarly, the damaged VIII nerve may be able to transmit a conversational level speech signal, but =3Ftire out=3F when faced with the demand of sending strong, sustained messages. In article <MPG.1be8720e5f44bad2989…@news.snet.sbcglobal.net>, susanbl…@snet.net says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> i disagree in the sense that more then once poor discrim scores (that > did not corilate with other findings) were the first indication of an > acoustic neuroma.

Response:

Sensorineural Hearing Loss

0 RESPONSES

Hearing loss / iron / superficial siderosis

Question:

Please join us in remembering a great icon of the entertainment community – The Pillsbury Doughboy died yesterday of a yeast infection and complications from repeated pokes in the belly. He was 71. Doughboy was buried in a lightly greased coffin. Dozens of celebrities turned out to pay their respects, including Mrs. Buttersworth, Hungry Jack, the California Raisins, Betty Crocker, the Hostess Twinkies, and Captain Crunch. The gravesite was piled high with flours. Aunt Jemima delivered the eulogy and lovingly described Doughboy as a man who never knew how much he was kneaded. Doughboy rose quickly in show business, but his later life was filled with turnovers. He was not considered a very `smart` cookie, wasting much of his dough on half-baked schemes. Despite being a little flaky at times he still, as a crusty old man, was considered a roll model for millions. Doughboy is survived by his wife, Play Dough; two children, John Dough and Jane Dough; plus they had one in the oven. He is also survived by his elderly dad, Pop Tart.

Response:

>Subject: Re: Hearing loss / iron / superficial siderosis >From: barryd…@aol.com (BarryDdly) >Date: 9/16/2004 8:25 AM Mountain Daylight Time >Message-id: <20040916102557.04585.00000…@mb-m02.aol.com>

Iron destroys .. myelin .. Iron found in those with multiple sclerosis using .. MRI .. imaging .. <<snip>> This deposition eventually results in destruction and demyelination within the central nervous system, <<snip>> Am J Med Genet. 2004 Sep 15;130A(1):22. Related Articles, Links Superficial siderosis: A potentially important cause of genetic as well as non-genetic deafness. Dodson KM, Sismanis A, Nance WE. Department of Otolaryngology/Head and Neck Surgery, Virginia Commonwealth University School of Medicine and Health Sciences, Medical College of Virginia Campus, Richmond, Virginia. Superficial siderosis is an important disease that is increasingly being recognized as a cause of sensorineural hearing loss. Hemosiderin, resulting from repeated episodes of subarachnoid bleeding, is deposited preferentially on the surface of the eighth nerve, cerebellum, and brain stem as a consequence of glial catabolism of ferritin within those structures. This deposition eventually results in destruction and demyelination within the central nervous system, leading to the cardinal clinical findings of superficial siderosis: hearing loss, ataxia, and myelopathy. This mechanism may contribute to the pathogenesis of several forms of genetic deafness, and should be considered as a diagnostic possibility in cases of late onset deafness even in the absence of an overt history of subarachnoid bleeding. Copyright 2004 Wiley-Liss, Inc. PMID: 15368490 [PubMed - in process] ————————————————————————– —— Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking

Response:

Am J Med Genet. 2004 Sep 15;130A(1):22. Related Articles, Links Superficial siderosis: A potentially important cause of genetic as well as non-genetic deafness. Dodson KM, Sismanis A, Nance WE. Department of Otolaryngology/Head and Neck Surgery, Virginia Commonwealth University School of Medicine and Health Sciences, Medical College of Virginia Campus, Richmond, Virginia. Superficial siderosis is an important disease that is increasingly being recognized as a cause of sensorineural hearing loss. Hemosiderin, resulting from repeated episodes of subarachnoid bleeding, is deposited preferentially on the surface of the eighth nerve, cerebellum, and brain stem as a consequence of glial catabolism of ferritin within those structures. This deposition eventually results in destruction and demyelination within the central nervous system, leading to the cardinal clinical findings of superficial siderosis: hearing loss, ataxia, and myelopathy. This mechanism may contribute to the pathogenesis of several forms of genetic deafness, and should be considered as a diagnostic possibility in cases of late onset deafness even in the absence of an overt history of subarachnoid bleeding. Copyright 2004 Wiley-Liss, Inc. PMID: 15368490 [PubMed - in process] ————————————————————————– —— Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking

Response:

You are seeing this message because Tom Hennessy aka ironjust…@aol.com has posted a message in alt.support.mult-sclerosis. If you are new to this group then please understand that he appears to get his thrills from the misfortunes of other people, evidenced by his comments to the victims of forest fires, the passing of members of this newsgroup and his presence on all support newsgroups. In keeping with this, Tommy believes discussions in these groups are conducted by using off-colour language and name calling. This trait is shown here: http://tinyurl.com/2cmto He seems to believe that whoever swears loudest and longest is the winner. In his mind, Hennessy believes he is a great researcher who has won a Nobel Prize. In fact, he merely copies medical material from the web and pastes it to usenet, proudly calling this his research. There was a time when people like Tommy were institutionalized, now they are allowed to run for public office and post to usenet. Previous addresses include watch…@nucleus.com, thenn…@telus.net. darreltaylor…@hotmail.com.

Response:

Sensorineural Hearing Loss

0 RESPONSES

advice

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"maree" <mare…@bigpond.com> wrote in message <news:6bVUc.566$F7.164@news-server.bigpond.net.au>… > Hi Matthew, > There are hearing aids that have a music program incorporated into them, and > there has been some very positive reports from people in this group who have > used such devices. However, I think you should go to an audiologist to check > on what they recommend is most suitable for your particular needs. > Fortunately, recent technology has improved music appreciation quite > remarkably for those with hearing loss. Good luck. > Regards, Maree > "Matthew" <mgchea…@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:3f254779.0408180800.50ab8fa@posting.google.com… > > im an english bloke in my late twenties. as a result of chemotherapy i > > received for testicular cancer two years ago i have tinnitus and high > > tone bilateral sensorineural hearing loss. > > this has put an end to my career as a professional flautist and > > severly affected my enjoyment of even listening to music. > > i was considering getting some digital aids to see they if they could > > restore some of the detail and fullness to music. > > does anybody out there have advice/thoughts etc. > > they would be greatly appreciated > > matthew

maree, many thanks for the info. do you know which aids in particular have the music programmes buit in?

Response:

Matthew wrote: > "maree" <mare…@bigpond.com> wrote in message

Siemens Trianos have a music mode. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> <news:6bVUc.566$F7.164@news-server.bigpond.net.au>… >> Hi Matthew, >> There are hearing aids that have a music program incorporated into them, >> and there has been some very positive reports from people in this group >> who have used such devices. However, I think you should go to an >> audiologist to check on what they recommend is most suitable for your >> particular needs. Fortunately, recent technology has improved music >> appreciation quite remarkably for those with hearing loss. Good luck. >> Regards, Maree >> "Matthew" <mgchea…@hotmail.com> wrote in message >> news:3f254779.0408180800.50ab8fa@posting.google.com… >> > im an english bloke in my late twenties. as a result of chemotherapy i >> > received for testicular cancer two years ago i have tinnitus and high >> > tone bilateral sensorineural hearing loss. >> > this has put an end to my career as a professional flautist and >> > severly affected my enjoyment of even listening to music. >> > i was considering getting some digital aids to see they if they could >> > restore some of the detail and fullness to music. >> > does anybody out there have advice/thoughts etc. >> > they would be greatly appreciated >> > matthew > maree, > many thanks for the info. do you know which aids in particular have > the music programmes buit in?

Response:

> Siemens Trianos have a music mode. > > many thanks for the info. do you know which aids in particular have > > the music programmes buit in?

It’s not built in, this mode is programmed by the audiologist into one of the presets. Just like any other full digital hearing aid. So it’s not a matter of type or brand, but a matter of programming by your audi. Good luck, Marnix

Response:

As you may have gathered from the responses, ha technology is complicated. Also, as one who has no hearing above 1400, I can tell you that it is hopeless even thinking about whether aids will help without an audiogram. (With or without hearing aids, anyone playing a flute is generating silence as far as I am concerned) To find your way through this jungle you need a guide – an audiologist – who will test your hearing and advise you on what is possible. He/she, if recommending aids, will be able to set up one of the available channels for music. But if, like me, your hearing cuts out at some level then no hearing aid on earth can do anything about it. The best thing I ever did when I realilsed I had hearing problems was track down a good audiologist. Don’t waste your time looking into ha brands – concentrate in finding good help. And if you find yourself dissatisfied with the findings you can always seek a second opinion.

Response:

im an english bloke in my late twenties. as a result of chemotherapy i received for testicular cancer two years ago i have tinnitus and high tone bilateral sensorineural hearing loss. this has put an end to my career as a professional flautist and severly affected my enjoyment of even listening to music. i was considering getting some digital aids to see they if they could restore some of the detail and fullness to music. does anybody out there have advice/thoughts etc. they would be greatly appreciated matthew

Response:

Hi Matthew, There are hearing aids that have a music program incorporated into them, and there has been some very positive reports from people in this group who have used such devices. However, I think you should go to an audiologist to check on what they recommend is most suitable for your particular needs. Fortunately, recent technology has improved music appreciation quite remarkably for those with hearing loss. Good luck. Regards, Maree "Matthew" <mgchea…@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:3f254779.0408180800.50ab8fa@posting.google.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> im an english bloke in my late twenties. as a result of chemotherapy i > received for testicular cancer two years ago i have tinnitus and high > tone bilateral sensorineural hearing loss. > this has put an end to my career as a professional flautist and > severly affected my enjoyment of even listening to music. > i was considering getting some digital aids to see they if they could > restore some of the detail and fullness to music. > does anybody out there have advice/thoughts etc. > they would be greatly appreciated > matthew

Response:

Sensorineural Hearing Loss

0 RESPONSES

SSHL

Question:

Hello, On June 30th I started experiencing deafness in my left ear over a period of about 1/2 hour. I made a doctor’s appointment the next day, and visited the doctor within 3 days. He put me on antibiotics for 10 days. On the second visit there was no improvement. He recommended I visit and ENT specialist which I di so about 10 days after that. The ENT diagnosed sensorineural hearing loss and had an MRI, BSER (brain stem evoked response) and other hearing tests. He also started me on steroids. I have an average of about a 40 dB loss but 1000 Hz is the worst, with a 60 dB threshold. As of Friday about 15% of my hearing loss has returned. The doctor said it would be best to not contunue the steroids for other health risks, but to come back mid-September for more audiology tests to see if the hearing has improved or worsened. My question is, has anyone any experience with sudden sensorineural hearing loss, and what else can I do as far as other actions on my part to (hopefully) get my hearing back? Thanks for any help or insight you might provide. Mark

Response:

Mark, I am sorry to welcome you to the club. I hope that you are seeing a Neurotolgist which is an Otolaryngologist (ENT) that specializes in the Inner Ear. The only known treatments are high dose oral steroids or intratympanic steroid injections. The MRI ruled out a brain tumor. You only have a mild-moderate hearing loss. It is very important to try to determine what caused your hearing loss so that you can attempt to prevent a recurrence. A month seems to be a long time to wait for additional testing. You must get (several) other opinions from other Neurotolgists. If you live in a area without these specialist I implore you to travel to them. "Mark" <mfields1x-nospam…@cinci.rr.com> wrote in message

news:pwSTc.16410$Nl1.13006@fe1.columbus.rr.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello, > On June 30th I started experiencing deafness in my left ear over a period of > about 1/2 hour. I made a doctor’s appointment the next day, and visited the > doctor within 3 days. He put me on antibiotics for 10 days. On the second > visit there was no improvement. He recommended I visit and ENT specialist > which I di so about 10 days after that. The ENT diagnosed sensorineural > hearing loss and had an MRI, BSER (brain stem evoked response) and other > hearing tests. He also started me on steroids. > I have an average of about a 40 dB loss but 1000 Hz is the worst, with a 60 > dB threshold. As of Friday about 15% of my hearing loss has returned. The > doctor said it would be best to not contunue the steroids for other health > risks, but to come back mid-September for more audiology tests to see if the > hearing has improved or worsened. > My question is, has anyone any experience with sudden sensorineural hearing > loss, and what else can I do as far as other actions on my part to > (hopefully) get my hearing back? > Thanks for any help or insight you might provide. > Mark

Response:

Sensorineural Hearing Loss

0 RESPONSES

Hearing Loss percent -how calculated?

Question:

No, I do not yet have my hearing aids, could be here in 2 weeks or less. <tlsh…@concentric.net> wrote in message

news:u54oa0hbdevqhb4hbqa1e73o7rq9tged27@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> On Wed, 19 May 2004 08:04:03 -0400, "R Benner" > <bennerBO…@personainternet.com> took a very strange rock and > inscribed these words: > >The numbers are pretty damned meaningless. I am of the opinion that what is > >relevant is function. Using the second calculation, I only have a loss of > >12%, sounds quite mild, yet I am having a very hard time functioning in the > >REAL WORLD. > Is that with hearing aids? I have an approximately 50-55 dB. (50 > percent from what I’m told) hearing loss and with hearing aids, have > moderate difficulty. However, I’ve been dealing with this all my life > so maybe experience helps. I often go quite comfortably without > hearing aids as long as I’m not working or having to otherwise > converse with hearing nonsigners. > — > Therese Shellabarger / The Roving Reporter – Civis Mundi > tlsh…@concentric.net / http://tlshell.cnc.net/

Response:

<arlen…@rainierconnect.com> wrote in message

news:10alpmcfurthved@corp.supernews.com… > I found this while searching AMA hearing loss standard: > a.. The committee on hearing and equilibrium of the American Academy of > Otolaryngology has established a computational method to determine hearing > handicap. It recognizes that hearing thresholds of 500, 1000, 2000, and 3000 > Hz are critical for understanding human conversation, and it uses only those > frequencies in the calculation of hearing handicap. The method also > recognizes that overall hearing acuity is disproportionately determined by > the acuity of the better-hearing ear. Consequently, the calculation heavily > favors the better-hearing over the poorer-hearing ear. The method recognizes > a 25-dB threshold or better to be normal. The computation is performed as > follows: > a.. Compute the sum of the hearing threshold levels at 500, 1000, 2000, > and 3000 Hz and divide by 4. Subtract 25 from the average. Multiply the > result by 1.5 to produce the percent monaural hearing impairment.

My hearing loss is 0dB @ 500 and 1000, 40dB @ 2000, 60 dB @ 3000, and 80dB @ 4000 in both ears. I have difficulty understanding many people talking. According to the formula my hearing loss is 0%. I think the formula is misleading.

Response:

You may have missed earlier posts. The AMA formula is for determining payment in comp and injury cases not for figuring out your personal disability. It’s not a disability rating. For that, try the same formula using 1,2,3 kHz or .5- 4 kHz with or without the 25 dB fence. O >> a.. Compute the sum of the hearing threshold levels at 500, 1000, 2000, >> and 3000 Hz and divide by 4. Subtract 25 from the average. Multiply the >> result by 1.5 to produce the percent monaural hearing impairment. >My hearing loss is 0dB @ 500 and 1000, 40dB @ 2000, 60 dB @ 3000, >and 80dB @ 4000 in both ears. I have difficulty understanding many >people talking. According to the formula my hearing loss is 0%. >I think the formula is misleading.

Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services ———————————————————- ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY ** ———————————————————- http://www.usenet.com —-== Posted via Newsfeed.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==—- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups —= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers – Total Privacy via Encryption =—

Response:

True, but useless info if one is involved in compensation and a hearing impairment formula is used to determine "pay-out" On Wed, 19 May 2004 07:06:08 +0100, "SW" <stevew_21_deletethis…@hotmail.com> wrote: ><arlen…@rainierconnect.com> wrote in message >news:10al5cmiaclno1b@corp.supernews.com… >> How is one’s hearing loss determined as a percent? >Coincidentally I asked a similar question on the RNID forum a few days ago. >Someone replied wth the following link which explains all >http://www.hearinglosshelp.com/decibelsvspercent.htm

Response:

You are confusing hearing disability ( a measure of the problem one has with hearing loss) and hearing "impairment" which is strictly a legal definition. Read the preamble to the ASHA position paper on hearing impairment. On Wed, 19 May 2004 02:21:51 GMT, Susan <hearinghel…@verizon.net> wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I tried 20 (considered normal hearing) as a threshold for both ears, all >frequencies and got 28.8%, that would be "over a quarter hearing loss" >with makes absoultly no sense, means nothing and confirms my previous >post. >It has to be very clear: HEARING LOSS is objective, LOUDNESS PERCEPTION >is subjective. Percentages don’t figure into hearing loss while they can >into loudness perception. If I played a tone and then a softer 2nd >tone, and asked you how much softer it was, you could say 15% softer and >everyone would have a similar relative number to how each tone is >related to the loudest. But that has nothing to do with hearing loss. >In article <40aabe08.57208…@news-server.twcny.rr.com>, bschler1 >@twcny.rr.com says… >> Holy Moly. >> Sounds like one of those magic tricks that always ends up with the >> number 13. >> Barry >> User <hu…@humma.com> wrote: >> >AMA Guides to physical impairment: >> >A legal definition, but one widely accepted >> >add thresholds at .5,1,2,&3k divide by 4; multiply by 1.5 >> >Do for each ear ( monaural), then multiply the better ( less) score by >> >5 ; add the worse ear and divide by 6. >> >This equals percent binaural impairment. >> >Doesn’t mean much, but it’s a standard . >> >On Tue, 18 May 2004 16:00:44 -0700, <arlen…@rainierconnect.com> >> >wrote: >> >>How is one’s hearing loss determined as a percent? >> > Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services >> >———————————————————- >> > ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY ** >> >———————————————————- >> > http://www.usenet.com

Response:

On Wed, 19 May 2004 08:04:03 -0400, "R Benner" <bennerBO…@personainternet.com> took a very strange rock and inscribed these words: >The numbers are pretty damned meaningless. I am of the opinion that what is >relevant is function. Using the second calculation, I only have a loss of >12%, sounds quite mild, yet I am having a very hard time functioning in the >REAL WORLD.

Is that with hearing aids? I have an approximately 50-55 dB. (50 percent from what I’m told) hearing loss and with hearing aids, have moderate difficulty. However, I’ve been dealing with this all my life so maybe experience helps. I often go quite comfortably without hearing aids as long as I’m not working or having to otherwise converse with hearing nonsigners. — Therese Shellabarger / The Roving Reporter – Civis Mundi tlsh…@concentric.net / http://tlshell.cnc.net/

Response:

AMA Guides to physical impairment: A legal definition, but one widely accepted add thresholds at .5,1,2,&3k divide by 4; multiply by 1.5 Do for each ear ( monaural), then multiply the better ( less) score by 5 ; add the worse ear and divide by 6. This equals percent binaural impairment. Doesn’t mean much, but it’s a standard . On Tue, 18 May 2004 16:00:44 -0700, <arlen…@rainierconnect.com> wrote: >How is one’s hearing loss determined as a percent?

Response:

Can you please provide an accurate cut and paste of this calculation. "User" <hu…@humma.com> wrote in message

news:ubala0pqjq84j1h98von9cd0h5a5l3bm36@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> AMA Guides to physical impairment: > A legal definition, but one widely accepted > add thresholds at .5,1,2,&3k divide by 4; multiply by 1.5 > Do for each ear ( monaural), then multiply the better ( less) score by > 5 ; add the worse ear and divide by 6. > This equals percent binaural impairment. > Doesn’t mean much, but it’s a standard . > On Tue, 18 May 2004 16:00:44 -0700, <arlen…@rainierconnect.com> > wrote: > >How is one’s hearing loss determined as a percent? > Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services > ———————————————————- > ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY ** > ———————————————————- > http://www.usenet.com

Response:

Holy Moly. Sounds like one of those magic tricks that always ends up with the number 13. Barry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -User <hu…@humma.com> wrote: >AMA Guides to physical impairment: >A legal definition, but one widely accepted >add thresholds at .5,1,2,&3k divide by 4; multiply by 1.5 >Do for each ear ( monaural), then multiply the better ( less) score by >5 ; add the worse ear and divide by 6. >This equals percent binaural impairment. >Doesn’t mean much, but it’s a standard . >On Tue, 18 May 2004 16:00:44 -0700, <arlen…@rainierconnect.com> >wrote: >>How is one’s hearing loss determined as a percent? > Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services >———————————————————- > ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY ** >———————————————————- > http://www.usenet.com

Response:

I tried 20 (considered normal hearing) as a threshold for both ears, all frequencies and got 28.8%, that would be "over a quarter hearing loss" with makes absoultly no sense, means nothing and confirms my previous post. It has to be very clear: HEARING LOSS is objective, LOUDNESS PERCEPTION is subjective. Percentages don’t figure into hearing loss while they can into loudness perception. If I played a tone and then a softer 2nd tone, and asked you how much softer it was, you could say 15% softer and everyone would have a similar relative number to how each tone is related to the loudest. But that has nothing to do with hearing loss. In article <40aabe08.57208…@news-server.twcny.rr.com>, bschler1 @twcny.rr.com says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Holy Moly. > Sounds like one of those magic tricks that always ends up with the > number 13. > Barry > User <hu…@humma.com> wrote: > >AMA Guides to physical impairment: > >A legal definition, but one widely accepted > >add thresholds at .5,1,2,&3k divide by 4; multiply by 1.5 > >Do for each ear ( monaural), then multiply the better ( less) score by > >5 ; add the worse ear and divide by 6. > >This equals percent binaural impairment. > >Doesn’t mean much, but it’s a standard . > >On Tue, 18 May 2004 16:00:44 -0700, <arlen…@rainierconnect.com> > >wrote: > >>How is one’s hearing loss determined as a percent? > > Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services > >———————————————————- > > ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY ** > >———————————————————- > > http://www.usenet.com

Response:

What do you expect, probably invented by a Doctor. Go figure. "Barry" <bschl…@twcny.rr.com> wrote in message

news:40aabe08.57208544@news-server.twcny.rr.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Holy Moly. > Sounds like one of those magic tricks that always ends up with the > number 13. > Barry > User <hu…@humma.com> wrote: > >AMA Guides to physical impairment: > >A legal definition, but one widely accepted > >add thresholds at .5,1,2,&3k divide by 4; multiply by 1.5 > >Do for each ear ( monaural), then multiply the better ( less) score by > >5 ; add the worse ear and divide by 6. > >This equals percent binaural impairment. > >Doesn’t mean much, but it’s a standard . > >On Tue, 18 May 2004 16:00:44 -0700, <arlen…@rainierconnect.com> > >wrote: > >>How is one’s hearing loss determined as a percent? > > Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services > >———————————————————- > > ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY ** > >———————————————————- > > http://www.usenet.com

Response:

I found this while searching AMA hearing loss standard: a.. The committee on hearing and equilibrium of the American Academy of Otolaryngology has established a computational method to determine hearing handicap. It recognizes that hearing thresholds of 500, 1000, 2000, and 3000 Hz are critical for understanding human conversation, and it uses only those frequencies in the calculation of hearing handicap. The method also recognizes that overall hearing acuity is disproportionately determined by the acuity of the better-hearing ear. Consequently, the calculation heavily favors the better-hearing over the poorer-hearing ear. The method recognizes a 25-dB threshold or better to be normal. The computation is performed as follows: a.. Compute the sum of the hearing threshold levels at 500, 1000, 2000, and 3000 Hz and divide by 4. Subtract 25 from the average. Multiply the result by 1.5 to produce the percent monaural hearing impairment. a.. If the monaural percent figure is the same for both ears, that figure expresses the percent handicap. If the percent monaural hearing impairment is different between ears, apply the formula (5 x % of better ear) + (1 x % poorer ear) divided by 6 = percent hearing handicap. a.. The AMA’s Guides to the Evaluation of Permanent Impairment provides tables that can convert percent binaural handicap into "percent disability of the whole person." "Susan" <hearinghel…@verizon.net> wrote in message

news:MPG.1b148ec3affdd0dd989704@news.verizon.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I tried 20 (considered normal hearing) as a threshold for both ears, all > frequencies and got 28.8%, that would be "over a quarter hearing loss" > with makes absoultly no sense, means nothing and confirms my previous > post. > It has to be very clear: HEARING LOSS is objective, LOUDNESS PERCEPTION > is subjective. Percentages don’t figure into hearing loss while they can > into loudness perception. If I played a tone and then a softer 2nd > tone, and asked you how much softer it was, you could say 15% softer and > everyone would have a similar relative number to how each tone is > related to the loudest. But that has nothing to do with hearing loss. > In article <40aabe08.57208…@news-server.twcny.rr.com>, bschler1 > @twcny.rr.com says… > > Holy Moly. > > Sounds like one of those magic tricks that always ends up with the > > number 13. > > Barry > > User <hu…@humma.com> wrote: > > >AMA Guides to physical impairment: > > >A legal definition, but one widely accepted > > >add thresholds at .5,1,2,&3k divide by 4; multiply by 1.5 > > >Do for each ear ( monaural), then multiply the better ( less) score by > > >5 ; add the worse ear and divide by 6. > > >This equals percent binaural impairment. > > >Doesn’t mean much, but it’s a standard . > > >On Tue, 18 May 2004 16:00:44 -0700, <arlen…@rainierconnect.com> > > >wrote: > > >>How is one’s hearing loss determined as a percent? > > > Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services > > >———————————————————- > > > ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY ** > > >———————————————————- > > > http://www.usenet.com

Response:

<arlen…@rainierconnect.com> wrote in message

news:10al5cmiaclno1b@corp.supernews.com… > How is one’s hearing loss determined as a percent?

Coincidentally I asked a similar question on the RNID forum a few days ago. Someone replied wth the following link which explains all http://www.hearinglosshelp.com/decibelsvspercent.htm

Response:

This produces a somewhat different calculation than … "A legal definition, but one widely accepted add thresholds at .5,1,2,&3k divide by 4; multiply by 1.5 Do for each ear ( monaural), then multiply the better ( less) score by 5 ; add the worse ear and divide by 6. This equals percent binaural impairment. Doesn’t mean much, but it’s a standard ." Instead of getting 49%, I get 12%. <arlen…@rainierconnect.com> wrote in message

news:10alpmcfurthved@corp.supernews.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I found this while searching AMA hearing loss standard: > a.. The committee on hearing and equilibrium of the American Academy of > Otolaryngology has established a computational method to determine hearing > handicap. It recognizes that hearing thresholds of 500, 1000, 2000, and 3000 > Hz are critical for understanding human conversation, and it uses only those > frequencies in the calculation of hearing handicap. The method also > recognizes that overall hearing acuity is disproportionately determined by > the acuity of the better-hearing ear. Consequently, the calculation heavily > favors the better-hearing over the poorer-hearing ear. The method recognizes > a 25-dB threshold or better to be normal. The computation is performed as > follows: > a.. Compute the sum of the hearing threshold levels at 500, 1000, 2000, > and 3000 Hz and divide by 4. Subtract 25 from the average. Multiply the > result by 1.5 to produce the percent monaural hearing impairment. > a.. If the monaural percent figure is the same for both ears, that > figure expresses the percent handicap. If the percent monaural hearing > impairment is different between ears, apply the formula (5 x % of better > ear) + (1 x % poorer ear) divided by 6 = percent hearing handicap. > a.. The AMA’s Guides to the Evaluation of Permanent Impairment provides > tables that can convert percent binaural handicap into "percent disability > of the whole person." > "Susan" <hearinghel…@verizon.net> wrote in message > news:MPG.1b148ec3affdd0dd989704@news.verizon.net… > > I tried 20 (considered normal hearing) as a threshold for both ears, all > > frequencies and got 28.8%, that would be "over a quarter hearing loss" > > with makes absoultly no sense, means nothing and confirms my previous > > post. > > It has to be very clear: HEARING LOSS is objective, LOUDNESS PERCEPTION > > is subjective. Percentages don’t figure into hearing loss while they can > > into loudness perception. If I played a tone and then a softer 2nd > > tone, and asked you how much softer it was, you could say 15% softer and > > everyone would have a similar relative number to how each tone is > > related to the loudest. But that has nothing to do with hearing loss. > > In article <40aabe08.57208…@news-server.twcny.rr.com>, bschler1 > > @twcny.rr.com says… > > > Holy Moly. > > > Sounds like one of those magic tricks that always ends up with the > > > number 13. > > > Barry > > > User <hu…@humma.com> wrote: > > > >AMA Guides to physical impairment: > > > >A legal definition, but one widely accepted > > > >add thresholds at .5,1,2,&3k divide by 4; multiply by 1.5 > > > >Do for each ear ( monaural), then multiply the better ( less) score by > > > >5 ; add the worse ear and divide by 6. > > > >This equals percent binaural impairment. > > > >Doesn’t mean much, but it’s a standard . > > > >On Tue, 18 May 2004 16:00:44 -0700, <arlen…@rainierconnect.com> > > > >wrote: > > > >>How is one’s hearing loss determined as a percent? > > > > Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services > > > >———————————————————- > > > > ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY ** > > > >———————————————————- > > > > http://www.usenet.com

Response:

On Wed, 19 May 2004 02:21:51 GMT, Susan <hearinghel…@verizon.net> took a very strange rock and inscribed these words: >I tried 20 (considered normal hearing) as a threshold for both ears, all >frequencies and got 28.8%, that would be "over a quarter hearing loss" >with makes absoultly no sense, means nothing and confirms my previous >post.

I believe your result is interpreted as 28.8 percent less than "normal." Subtract that from 100 to get the percent you have. — Therese Shellabarger / The Roving Reporter – Civis Mundi tlsh…@concentric.net / http://tlshell.cnc.net/

Response:

The numbers are pretty damned meaningless. I am of the opinion that what is relevant is function. Using the second calculation, I only have a loss of 12%, sounds quite mild, yet I am having a very hard time functioning in the REAL WORLD. <tlsh…@concentric.net> wrote in message

news:3nima094o3vt061l31h70qie7s7i0ot6bd@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> On Wed, 19 May 2004 02:21:51 GMT, Susan <hearinghel…@verizon.net> > took a very strange rock and inscribed these words: > >I tried 20 (considered normal hearing) as a threshold for both ears, all > >frequencies and got 28.8%, that would be "over a quarter hearing loss" > >with makes absoultly no sense, means nothing and confirms my previous > >post. > I believe your result is interpreted as 28.8 percent less than > "normal." Subtract that from 100 to get the percent you have. > — > Therese Shellabarger / The Roving Reporter – Civis Mundi > tlsh…@concentric.net / http://tlshell.cnc.net/

Response:

This goes to prove how little physicians and especially ENT’s really know about hearing loss. Insurance companies come up with crazy formula’s to help determine amount of disability when dealing with worker’s comp claims. If you are truly interested in determining the amount of hearing loss, you should look for information posted by audiologists or hearing scientists, not MD’s. And finally, as Susan has mentioned, there is not such thing as a percentage of hearing loss. The audiogram and decibel scale is logarithmic, not linear – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<arlen…@rainierconnect.com> wrote in message <news:10alpmcfurthved@corp.supernews.com>… > I found this while searching AMA hearing loss standard: > a.. The committee on hearing and equilibrium of the American Academy of > Otolaryngology has established a computational method to determine hearing > handicap. It recognizes that hearing thresholds of 500, 1000, 2000, and 3000 > Hz are critical for understanding human conversation, and it uses only those > frequencies in the calculation of hearing handicap. The method also > recognizes that overall hearing acuity is disproportionately determined by > the acuity of the better-hearing ear. Consequently, the calculation heavily > favors the better-hearing over the poorer-hearing ear. The method recognizes > a 25-dB threshold or better to be normal. The computation is performed as > follows: > a.. Compute the sum of the hearing threshold levels at 500, 1000, 2000, > and 3000 Hz and divide by 4. Subtract 25 from the average. Multiply the > result by 1.5 to produce the percent monaural hearing impairment. > a.. If the monaural percent figure is the same for both ears, that > figure expresses the percent handicap. If the percent monaural hearing > impairment is different between ears, apply the formula (5 x % of better > ear) + (1 x % poorer ear) divided by 6 = percent hearing handicap. > a.. The AMA’s Guides to the Evaluation of Permanent Impairment provides > tables that can convert percent binaural handicap into "percent disability > of the whole person." > "Susan" <hearinghel…@verizon.net> wrote in message > news:MPG.1b148ec3affdd0dd989704@news.verizon.net… > > I tried 20 (considered normal hearing) as a threshold for both ears, all > > frequencies and got 28.8%, that would be "over a quarter hearing loss" > > with makes absoultly no sense, means nothing and confirms my previous > > post. > > It has to be very clear: HEARING LOSS is objective, LOUDNESS PERCEPTION > > is subjective. Percentages don’t figure into hearing loss while they can > > into loudness perception. If I played a tone and then a softer 2nd > > tone, and asked you how much softer it was, you could say 15% softer and > > everyone would have a similar relative number to how each tone is > > related to the loudest. But that has nothing to do with hearing loss. > > In article <40aabe08.57208…@news-server.twcny.rr.com>, bschler1 > > @twcny.rr.com says… > > > Holy Moly. > > > Sounds like one of those magic tricks that always ends up with the > > > number 13. > > > Barry > > > User <hu…@humma.com> wrote: > > > >AMA Guides to physical impairment: > > > >A legal definition, but one widely accepted > > > >add thresholds at .5,1,2,&3k divide by 4; multiply by 1.5 > > > >Do for each ear ( monaural), then multiply the better ( less) score by > > > >5 ; add the worse ear and divide by 6. > > > >This equals percent binaural impairment. > > > >Doesn’t mean much, but it’s a standard . > > > >On Tue, 18 May 2004 16:00:44 -0700, <arlen…@rainierconnect.com> > > > >wrote: > > > >>How is one’s hearing loss determined as a percent? > > > > Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services > > > >———————————————————- > > > > ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY ** > > > >———————————————————- > > > > http://www.usenet.com

Response:

In article <c8etgi$35…@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>, "SW" <stevew_21_deletethis…@hotmail.com> wrote: > http://www.hearinglosshelp.com/decibelsvspercent.htm

What a terrific link. Thanks.

Response:

"R Benner" <bennerBO…@personainternet.com> wrote in message

news:10amjmn74ls2i0c@corp.supernews.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The numbers are pretty damned meaningless. I am of the opinion that what is > relevant is function. Using the second calculation, I only have a loss of > 12%, sounds quite mild, yet I am having a very hard time functioning in the > REAL WORLD. > <tlsh…@concentric.net> wrote in message > news:3nima094o3vt061l31h70qie7s7i0ot6bd@4ax.com… > > On Wed, 19 May 2004 02:21:51 GMT, Susan <hearinghel…@verizon.net> > > took a very strange rock and inscribed these words: > > >I tried 20 (considered normal hearing) as a threshold for both ears, all > > >frequencies and got 28.8%, that would be "over a quarter hearing loss" > > >with makes absoultly no sense, means nothing and confirms my previous > > >post. > > I believe your result is interpreted as 28.8 percent less than > > "normal." Subtract that from 100 to get the percent you have. > > — > > Therese Shellabarger / The Roving Reporter – Civis Mundi > > tlsh…@concentric.net / http://tlshell.cnc.net/

Well for one thing, the calculation completely ignores 4000 Hz which is a BIG problem in my opinion. — JennL

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Whoops, sorry.. forgot to subtract 25 from the four frequency average before multiplying by 1.5. It may not mean anything to Susan, but its the de facto medical-legal standard in most of the US. and is used for most if not all of worker’s comp proceedings…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Tue, 18 May 2004 20:28:49 -0400, User <hu…@humma.com> wrote: >AMA Guides to physical impairment: >A legal definition, but one widely accepted >add thresholds at .5,1,2,&3k divide by 4; multiply by 1.5 >Do for each ear ( monaural), then multiply the better ( less) score by >5 ; add the worse ear and divide by 6. >This equals percent binaural impairment. >Doesn’t mean much, but it’s a standard . >On Tue, 18 May 2004 16:00:44 -0700, <arlen…@rainierconnect.com> >wrote: >>How is one’s hearing loss determined as a percent? > Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services >———————————————————- > ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY ** >———————————————————- > http://www.usenet.com

Response:

How is one’s hearing loss determined as a percent?

Response:

Technically it can’t be, and anyone that tries to tell you otherwise does not grasp the concept that hearing loss is across decibels and frequencies and is not out of 100. Forgive me, it is a HUGE pet peeve. If someone asks me how to describe their hearing loss, I describe the configuration of the loss. For example: Binaurally mild sloping to moderate at 2kHz, with a steep drop to profound at 8kHz, sensorineural hearing loss. With all that information, an audiologist with no idea of the patient can get a clear idea of the hearing loss in terms of puretone thresholds. Percentages are used in speech discriminiation with a word list of 25 or 50, the number of words correctly repeated is translated to a percentage (24 out of 25 is 96%). But this is the number right, not a percentage of hearing loss. In fact, I would say that with only speech dicrimination scores, it is impossible to guess the amount or configuration of a person’s hearing loss. The standard chart is: -10 to 20 (argueably 25)dBHL——normal 15-25 ———sometimes referred to as slight 21-40 ———mild 41-55———-moderate 56-70———-moderately-severe 71-90———-severe 91 to the limits of the machine——profound Hope this helps you to become a more informed person! In article <10al5cmiacln…@corp.supernews.com>, arlen…@rainierconnect.com says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> How is one’s hearing loss determined as a percent?

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Sensorineural Hearing Loss

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European Patent Office issues patent on novel hearing loss treatment

Question:

HHIssues wrote: > Sound Pharmaceuticals, Inc. (SPI) announced that its patent

Sensorineural Hearing Loss

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Question for your group

Question:

On Wed, 11 Jun 2003 20:09:42 -0500, H wrote: > Thanks Andy. > btw, is there a rule here re: top vs. bottom posting? I know > some groups have issues with that, and I don’t want to > offend.

I asked that question her some time ago. It is not an issue here (amazing?). My rule is if I’m the first to add to a thread I bottom post. Else I do as the thread seems to be going. Welcome aboard. Timothy

Response:

Hey J! I read about the Cogan’s, but the more I read, the more I doubted. It’s just not the way it happened & the Opthamologist seems to think it’s a reaction to the pred., but according to one lady’s story, she wasn’t diagnosed for decades, so??? I’m gonna research the autoimmune diseases in the third link you posted & see what gives. Thanks so much for the info! And thanks for giving me a boost too! I know this group will be–and already has been–a wonderful thing for me. Sometimes it’s hard to show an interest in yourself when nobody else cares to & that’s precisely what has happened since the loss of my Mother. Hope you feel better soon! Huggy’s, Maggie

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bruce wrote: > Your no name auoimmune mad me wonder if all enviral could be ruled out > because of the generation span with like signs. > Could it be just gene crossing when an offspring born that the two genes > join and start a new gene creating a rouge. > Bruce On. " I now have a headache from to much thinking ) "

LOL I don’t have a clue (what you’re saying), but here’s one I just thought of BRB, that’s an acronym for "be right back" but also your initials. What’cha think of that? Hugs J

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Actually, I thought you said it very well! Charlotte On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 12:24:37 -0500, kcat <kca…@newsguy.com> wrote:

what I’m trying to say in a clumsy way is that this is by no means a group defined by fear or pain, but one defined by support and humour as well as medical information.

Response:

Marg Watson wrote: > Wow! You may have just diagnosed me. LOL! > I don’t know what to think about Cogan’s syndrome at this moment though. > I have already learned enough here to know that we can’t always trust > out Dr.’s to know it all. We have to become our own dr.. My eye, well > first the left & then the right one, always becomes inflamed after a > cycle of prednisone. However, afterwards, it’s always super sensitive > to wind-blown dust, make up etc.. My eyes were never affected during > the onset of the disease though. They started after a year long course > of prednisone in which I had to take 60 mg. for 30+ days to keep my > hearing stable. I have a whole slew of road-rage stories from that era, > BTW!

Hi Maggie, have you looked that up? Maybe that’s what you have? Seems related to vasculitis and uveitis It’s described at the bottom section of this page http://www.uveitis.org/enhanced/md_info/md_cogan’s.htm and here http://www.american-hearing.org/name/cogans_syndrome.html says "See also: Autoimmune Inner Ear Disease" or here http://www.vestibular.org/autoimmune.html That’s enough reading for you. Not to worry, there won’t be a test afterward Hugs J

Response:

Hi Bruce! Well, you managed to give me a headache too, but it was gonna happen anyway, I’m afraid.:-) Actually, I don’t know much about the Aunt that was diagnosed with Lupus as she passed on more than 20 years ago, when I was about 12. I have found myself wondering if she indeed had Lupus though. Not sure about this, but I think doctors are more comfortable with saying: "Hey, we don’t know what the heck’s wrong with you!" these days than they were more than 40 years ago when she was diagnosed. My other great Aunt’s autoimmune disease affected her liver & kidneys & she died of cirhosis.(sp–it looked right in my head:-)) And I forgot that another Uncle (brother to these aunts) was also dx’d with Lupus. However, he may have been dx’d, because his sister was??? So, did I get a mutant gene? Probably & it does seem to have skipped a generation. If all of the above, except me of course, weren’t deceased, we would have made a great family for that new study that was recently posted. LOL! And Margie’s fine, BTW. I’ve been called everything from Gertrude to Maggot–but you shoulda heard what I called them! :-0 Oh….and late compliments for a CGT well told! Yes, the tears appeared for me too. Hope you have another CG sunset soon. Margie AKA Maggie

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I’ve read that research is underway about fibro being a precursor to lupus since so many lupoids also have fibro. I’ve visited the fibro site & so many of them have lupus symptoms; joint inflammation, fevers, photosensitivity, etc. that I have to wonder if some of them aren’t being misdiagnosed. Candi ———- In article <b8jaev4bqqt909abnurn25nc6pcocr6…@4ax.com>, "H" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<hurt…@nospam.com> wrote: >Hello all, >I’d like to ask a question if I may. >Is there a group for people with fibro? I’ve also been told that >my connective tissues and muscles are inflamed and that I have >scoliosis. >Is fibro an autoimmune disease? >I also have hypothyroidism, depression, migraines, IBS, TMJ, >fatigue, and other "little" things that all seem to work together to >make me somewhat miserable. >Though I have a fair amount of pain, I am able to work outside >my home. Once I’m home though, my energy is almost completely >gone. >I know that I don’t have lupus, as my ANA was negative, and >a CT scan for MS was also negative. >Well..before I say more…can you direct me to a group >that might be suited to my needs? I don’t have anything >life-threatening, so I’m not sure I’d belong in this wonderful >group of people. >Thanks in advance. >"H"

Response:

Thanks for that info, J! Wow! You may have just diagnosed me. LOL! I don’t know what to think about Cogan’s syndrome at this moment though. I have already learned enough here to know that we can’t always trust out Dr.’s to know it all. We have to become our own dr.. My eye, well first the left & then the right one, always becomes inflamed after a cycle of prednisone. However, afterwards, it’s always super sensitive to wind-blown dust, make up etc.. My eyes were never affected during the onset of the disease though. They started after a year long course of prednisone in which I had to take 60 mg. for 30+ days to keep my hearing stable. I have a whole slew of road-rage stories from that era, BTW! I’m sorry to hear about your doctor. That’s bad news at a bad time, I know. I would hate to start going to a new doctor myself. They’ll read all the notes in your chart & your last lab test & do what they’re suppose to do to help you, but it would sure feel like I was taking 2, or maybe 20, steps back. I hope you find a good doc & SOON. Okay, I can’t let it slide—It makes me so upset that your doctor feels like has to retire. Do you know how many deaf people would go to him. Some might even learn enough sign language to communicate & others would merely use his enterpreteur. I know what he’s feeling though, and he just may not have it in him right now & that’s understandable, but keep yours "ears" open, he may just be back one day. If only the weather hadn’t changed on you….. That’s what I hate too. There’s always a possibility that it’s from something else. I can only say to use your instincts, but you knew that. I do have to wonder though. If your eyes seemed to have adjusted, maybe it’ll work it’s way out?? We’ll hope the weather withdraws or the inflammation does one & wait for an update. Maggie

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Maybe we’ll make one up for you ! <g> > I wasn’t able to go to that link about your eyes on my webtv to read > what was going on.

I usually try to find html, but if you even need/want a pdf copied, let us know, once of us will try. It’s doable but probably best e-mailed than onthe group, because they’re typically longer than simpler web pages. > How are your eyes now though?

I’ll have to review this again. After my post last night, I swear my neck area was all red. Could just be my eyes or the lighting, but it was after I took the Mobic > Is the Mobic a new > med you’re taking & could it be causing your elbows & shoulders to > flare?

Re-evaluating that one too. Wondering if it’s olecranon bursitis. http://www.med.umich.edu/1libr/sma/sma_olecburs_sma.htm That’s how my shoulder troubles started and have turned into my worse nightmare. I’m hoping the elbows will get better if I take care of them. Hugs J

Response:

Hi Margi:)) Your no name auoimmune mad me wonder if all enviral could be ruled out because of the generation span with like signs. Could it be just gene crossing when an offspring born that the two genes join and start a new gene creating a rouge. Bruce On. " I now have a headache from to much thinking ) " "J" <nots…@spamNo.inv> wrote in message

news:3EE715A2.75E190D7@execulink.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Marg Watson wrote: > > The reason you couldn’t remember the name of my auoimmune disorder is > > most likely because they haven’t named it. My Great Aunt had Lupus > > & her sister had a no-namer too. This is why they believe it is a > > Lupus-like disease. > Maybe we’ll make one up for you ! <g> > > I wasn’t able to go to that link about your eyes on my webtv to read > > what was going on. > I usually try to find html, but if you even need/want a pdf copied, let us > know, once of us will try. It’s doable but probably best e-mailed than onthe > group, because they’re typically longer than simpler web pages. > > How are your eyes now though? > I’ll have to review this again. After my post last night, I swear my neck > area was all red. Could just be my eyes or the lighting, but it was after I > took the Mobic > > Is the Mobic a new > > med you’re taking & could it be causing your elbows & shoulders to > > flare? > Re-evaluating that one too. Wondering if it’s olecranon bursitis. > http://www.med.umich.edu/1libr/sma/sma_olecburs_sma.htm > That’s how my shoulder troubles started and have turned into my worse > nightmare. > I’m hoping the elbows will get better if I take care of them. > Hugs > J

Response:

Hi J! The reason you couldn’t remember the name of my auoimmune disorder is most likely because they haven’t named it. My Great Aunt had Lupus & her sister had a no-namer too. This is why they believe it is a Lupus-like disease. I wasn’t able to go to that link about your eyes on my webtv to read what was going on. How are your eyes now though? Is the Mobic a new med you’re taking & could it be causing your elbows & shoulders to flare? Maggie

Response:

On Mon, 09 Jun 2003 22:23:02 -0500, "H" <hurt…@nospam.com> wrote: >Hello all, >I’d like to ask a question if I may. >Is there a group for people with fibro? I’ve also been told that >my connective tissues and muscles are inflamed and that I have >scoliosis. >Is fibro an autoimmune disease?

not as yet defined that way, no. Fibromyalgia is a "syndrome" which means it could exist by itself or be part and parcel to any number of other diseases. At least this is the understanding thus far. it certainly is common among people with autoimmune diseases. Connective Tissue Diseases are generally autoimmune disesases. There are exceptions where the CTD is the result of a genetic flaw (such as Marfan’s Syndrome.) OTOH, most autoimmune disease do manifest in ways that cause connective tissue damage. it’s a bit more complex than that but.. not much. As someone else pointed out – connective tissues are found throughout the body so just about any part of the body can be affected. Another term used for CTDs is "Collagen Vascular Disease." It’s important to know that though some people call Fibro "pre-lupus" there simply isn’t any evidence to make that statement yet. I personally believe it can be a precursor to many diseases and that most people who start out with FMS will find later that they have something more definable such as lupus, rheumatoid arthritis, hypothyroidism and so on. that’s my opinion as a somewhat-educated biologist. IMO, this group is superior to most FM groups I’ve read. I don’t mean to be harsh to the members of those groups as I know that they are suffering (I have FMS myself.) But for some reason those groups invite more trolls and "snake oil" salespeople than ASL does. At least that has been the case in the 5+ years I’ve been on this group. And since I think FMS is connected to other conditions, than I think anyone with FMS is more than welcome here and can offer insight to all of us as well as perhaps gain insight from us since these conditions all require similar approaches in terms of treatment. as you can tell – I’m a bit wordy today – I’m putting off real work. Welcome and do feel free to stay here – but of course, you should check out the fibro groups because everyone has their own comfort zone with group dynamics.

Response:

Marg Watson wrote: > The reason you couldn’t remember the name of my auoimmune disorder is > most likely because they haven’t named it. My Great Aunt had Lupus > & her sister had a no-namer too. This is why they believe it is a > Lupus-like disease. > I wasn’t able to go to that link about your eyes on my webtv to read > what was going on. How are your eyes now though? Is the Mobic a new > med you’re taking & could it be causing your elbows & shoulders to > flare?

Hi Maggie, I’m sorry I didn’t realize about the webtv, remind us/we if we forget. Some pdfs even I can’t access if they’re too big in size. But thanks for reading some of the stuff I post. Autoimmune hearing loss http://www.utmb.edu/otoref/Grnds/SuddenHearingLoss-010613/SSNHL.htm Autoimmune hearing loss may be associated with or part of systemic autoimmune diseases such as Cogan’s syndrome, Wegener

Sensorineural Hearing Loss

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Bloedel meeting this past weekend

Question:

Virginia Merrill Bloedel Hearing Research Center University of Washington Co-sponsored by Northwest Lions Foundation for Sight and Hearing. Endorsed by AARP, SHHH, PacNW Cochlear Implant Club, and more ****************************************** Overall, Saturday was terrific! Excellent presentations, superqualified experts answering questions and delivering information, good exhibits, and the price was zero! Exhibiting were several hearing aid and cochlear implant makers, with technically competent people answering questions and predicting technologies to come. Lots of gadgets are enroute to us. Presenting were otology clinicians, researchers (mostly hair cell regen work), and audiologists. Lots of information – far too much to cover here. I was particularly impressed with the effort to achieve a better correlation between audiometry (measurements) and prescription. As most of you know, and audiologists are loathe to admit, audiometry is justification for an aid – the fitting usually bears only vague resemblance to the diagnostic data. To one group, I presented my theory that in sensorineural deficiencies, small-area hair cell damage can produce very narrow frequency bands of hearing loss. That is, a patient might be -20dB at 400, 410, 420, and 450 Hz, but -80dB at 430-440Hz. Doesn’t seem very important, but two voices may be similar sounding to someone with normal hearing, yet a HOH can hear one clearly (with aid) and not the other because of acoustic energy distribution. The difference is not ordinarily measurable with conventional hearing tests because they jump from one major frequency to another, missing losses in between. One clue is that discrimination testing conducted by two audiologists (two voices) can produce very different results. One of the researchers expressed interest, will conduct a few tests using an analog signal generator, and will perhaps publish the results. There is a lot of government, private, and institutional money going into hair cell regeneration; think of the economic consequences of a solution! Bottom line: hair cell regen is very well-funded and making progress, but don’t expect any breakthroughs for years. If you missed this meeting, PLEASE make a note to attend next year. It’s immensely valuable!

Response:

>Subject: Bloedel meeting this past weekend >From: OORA…@USMC.ret >Date: 4/7/03 2:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time >Message-id: <3E91C175.8875E…@yahoo.com> >Virginia Merrill Bloedel Hearing Research Center >University of Washington >Co-sponsored by Northwest Lions Foundation for Sight and Hearing. >Endorsed by AARP, SHHH, PacNW Cochlear Implant Club, and more >****************************************** >Overall, Saturday was terrific! >Excellent presentations, superqualified experts answering questions and >delivering information, good exhibits, and the price was zero!

Oorah, Thanks for posting the update in here. I appreciate it ! – HHIssues

Response:

Hello everyone, Here’s a link to the pdf file on supposedly what was covered in the Bloedel conference: http://depts.washington.edu/hearing/EHBBooklet.pdf Or click on where it says "To dowload the program booklet click here." in the following page: http://depts.washington.edu/hearing/ehb.html

Response:

Here is a great list of articles and information also at the site listed below: http://depts.washington.edu/hearing/articles.html Barry. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -hhiss…@aol.com (HHIssues) wrote: >>Subject: Bloedel meeting this past weekend >>From: OORA…@USMC.ret >>Date: 4/7/03 2:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time >>Message-id: <3E91C175.8875E…@yahoo.com> >>Virginia Merrill Bloedel Hearing Research Center >>University of Washington >>Co-sponsored by Northwest Lions Foundation for Sight and Hearing. >>Endorsed by AARP, SHHH, PacNW Cochlear Implant Club, and more >>****************************************** >>Overall, Saturday was terrific! >>Excellent presentations, superqualified experts answering questions and >>delivering information, good exhibits, and the price was zero! >Hello everyone, >Here’s a link to the pdf file on supposedly what was covered in the Bloedel >conference: >http://depts.washington.edu/hearing/EHBBooklet.pdf >Or click on where it says "To dowload the program booklet click here." in the >following page: >http://depts.washington.edu/hearing/ehb.html

Response:

Barry wrote: > Here is a great list of articles and information also at the site > listed below: > http://depts.washington.edu/hearing/articles.html

Thanks, Barry: Everyone — please send email to Bloedel saying FIX THOSE LINKS!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Subject: Re: Bloedel meeting this past weekend >From: OO…@USMC.ret >Date: 4/22/03 5:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time >Message-id: <3EA5B42B.769C3…@yahoo.com> >Barry wrote: >> Here is a great list of articles and information also at the site >> listed below: >> http://depts.washington.edu/hearing/articles.html >Thanks, Barry: >Everyone — please send email to Bloedel saying FIX THOSE LINKS!

Ha. Which links are you talking about ? Cause the ones I clicked on seems to be working alright ? By the way, while we’re at it, are you by any chance going to the "Can Modern Science Cure Hearing Loss ?" forum ?

Response:

HHIssues wrote: > Ha. Which links are you talking about ? Cause the ones I clicked on seems to be > working alright ?

Good – they weren’t > By the way, while we’re at it, are you by any chance going to the "Can Modern > Science Cure Hearing Loss ?" forum ?

I’d like to, but there’s a schedule conflict. An ENT friend may go and report back.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -HHIssues wrote: > >Subject: Re: Bloedel meeting this past weekend > >From: OO…@USMC.ret > >Date: 4/22/03 5:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time > >Message-id: <3EA5B42B.769C3…@yahoo.com> > >Barry wrote: > >> Here is a great list of articles and information also at the site > >> listed below: > >> http://depts.washington.edu/hearing/articles.html > >Thanks, Barry: > >Everyone — please send email to Bloedel saying FIX THOSE LINKS! > Ha. Which links are you talking about ? Cause the ones I clicked on seems to be > working alright ? > By the way, while we’re at it, are you by any chance going to the "Can Modern > Science Cure Hearing Loss ?" forum ?

I tried the links. They don’t work on Netscape, but DO on Internet Explorer. It’s quite possible they don’t work with other web browsers, too. PB

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Sensorineural Hearing Loss

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strange case of improved hearing

Question:

Hello – I’m hoping that what I have experienced lately with my hearing will be of interest to some of you. I first became aware of my sensorineural hearing loss in my early twenties. Over the last thirty years the condition has gotten progressively worse. I’ve worn hearing aids for the last six years. I haven’t built my life on wishful thinking but I have always held the thought that there may be some way to improve my hearing in addition to traditional hearing aids. (This is were it gets interesting) About four weeks ago, I was driving my car and listing to CD music. My right hearing aid was in the shop so I was hearing half muffled music. Out of the blue, I became aware that the tambourines, cymbals and snares were very clear and crisp sounding in my right ear. It was like I had this miniature drummer banging away in my ear canal. The best way I could describe it to my wife who has normal hearing was to use the analogy of if she suddenly could hear the high frequency sounds that only dogs can hear. Needless to say, I’ve experimented with this for eight weeks and the phenomenon has not changed. The only bad news is that it does nothing for hearing speech except that sometimes "s’s" and to a lesser extent "t’s" and "d’s" sound a little whistley (much more so when listening to CD’s). Anyway, if any of you have had this specific or similar experience, I’d like to hear about it.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Subject: strange case of improved hearing >From: sa…@erols.com (J Sammer) >Date: 4/2/03 8:13 PM Eastern Standard Time >Message-id: <c6952dc2.0304021713.716e8…@posting.google.com> >Hello – I’m hoping that what I have experienced lately with my hearing >will be of interest to some of you. >I first became aware of my sensorineural hearing loss in my early >twenties. Over the last thirty years the condition has gotten >progressively worse. I’ve worn hearing aids for the last six years. >I haven’t built my life on wishful thinking but I have always held the >thought that there may be some way to improve my hearing in addition >to traditional hearing aids. >(This is were it gets interesting) >About four weeks ago, I was driving my car and listing to CD music. >My right hearing aid was in the shop so I was hearing half muffled >music. Out of the blue, I became aware that the tambourines, cymbals >and snares were very clear and crisp sounding in my >right ear. It was like I had this miniature drummer banging away in >my ear canal. The best way I could describe it to my wife who >has normal hearing was to use the analogy of if she suddenly could >hear the high frequency sounds that only dogs can hear. Needless to >say, I’ve experimented with this for eight weeks and the phenomenon >has not changed. The only bad news is that it does nothing for >hearing speech except that sometimes "s’s" and to a lesser extent >"t’s" and "d’s" sound a little whistley (much more so when listening >to CD’s). >Anyway, if any of you have had this specific or similar experience, >I’d like to hear about it.

Perhaps, this could have something to do with the acoustics of the car you were driving in ?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -hhiss…@aol.com (HHIssues) wrote in message <news:20030403130344.23108.00000138@mb-fm.aol.com>… > >Subject: strange case of improved hearing > >From: sa…@erols.com (J Sammer) > >Date: 4/2/03 8:13 PM Eastern Standard Time > >Message-id: <c6952dc2.0304021713.716e8…@posting.google.com> > >Hello – I’m hoping that what I have experienced lately with my hearing > >will be of interest to some of you. > >I first became aware of my sensorineural hearing loss in my early > >twenties. Over the last thirty years the condition has gotten > >progressively worse. I’ve worn hearing aids for the last six years. > >I haven’t built my life on wishful thinking but I have always held the > >thought that there may be some way to improve my hearing in addition > >to traditional hearing aids. > >(This is were it gets interesting) > >About four weeks ago, I was driving my car and listing to CD music. > >My right hearing aid was in the shop so I was hearing half muffled > >music. Out of the blue, I became aware that the tambourines, cymbals > >and snares were very clear and crisp sounding in my > >right ear. It was like I had this miniature drummer banging away in > >my ear canal. The best way I could describe it to my wife who > >has normal hearing was to use the analogy of if she suddenly could > >hear the high frequency sounds that only dogs can hear. Needless to > >say, I’ve experimented with this for eight weeks and the phenomenon > >has not changed. The only bad news is that it does nothing for > >hearing speech except that sometimes "s’s" and to a lesser extent > >"t’s" and "d’s" sound a little whistley (much more so when listening > >to CD’s). > >Anyway, if any of you have had this specific or similar experience, > >I’d like to hear about it. > Perhaps, this could have something to do with the acoustics of the car you were > driving in ?

Good thought but I get the exact same effect with my home sterio. Thanks for the comment though. JS

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -In article <c6952dc2.0304040801.33913…@posting.google.com>, sa…@erols.com (J Sammer) wrote: >hhiss…@aol.com (HHIssues) wrote in message > <news:20030403130344.23108.00000138@mb-fm.aol.com>… >> >Subject: strange case of improved hearing >> >From: sa…@erols.com (J Sammer) >> >Date: 4/2/03 8:13 PM Eastern Standard Time >> >Message-id: <c6952dc2.0304021713.716e8…@posting.google.com> >> >Hello – I’m hoping that what I have experienced lately with my hearing >> >will be of interest to some of you. >> >I first became aware of my sensorineural hearing loss in my early >> >twenties. Over the last thirty years the condition has gotten >> >progressively worse. I’ve worn hearing aids for the last six years. >> >I haven’t built my life on wishful thinking but I have always held the >> >thought that there may be some way to improve my hearing in addition >> >to traditional hearing aids. >> >(This is were it gets interesting) >> >About four weeks ago, I was driving my car and listing to CD music. >> >My right hearing aid was in the shop so I was hearing half muffled >> >music. Out of the blue, I became aware that the tambourines, cymbals >> >and snares were very clear and crisp sounding in my >> >right ear. It was like I had this miniature drummer banging away in >> >my ear canal. The best way I could describe it to my wife who >> >has normal hearing was to use the analogy of if she suddenly could >> >hear the high frequency sounds that only dogs can hear. Needless to >> >say, I’ve experimented with this for eight weeks and the phenomenon >> >has not changed. The only bad news is that it does nothing for >> >hearing speech except that sometimes "s’s" and to a lesser extent >> >"t’s" and "d’s" sound a little whistley (much more so when listening >> >to CD’s). >> >Anyway, if any of you have had this specific or similar experience, >> >I’d like to hear about it. >> Perhaps, this could have something to do with the acoustics of the car you > were >> driving in ? >Good thought but I get the exact same effect with my home sterio. >Thanks for the comment though. JS

Well, then – congratulations on the improvement! Hope the improvement works its way down into the speech frequencies! :-) Woods

Response:

Sensorineural Hearing Loss