Losing Hearing

OT:Bonus Question of the day…. 08/21/07

admin — Tue, 21 Aug 2007 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

08/21/07: Today’s question is being brought to you by our very own Ray If you had to lose one of your senses which one would it be and why? Jackie ~*~Sit and daydream, and watch the changing color of the waves that break upon the idle seashore of the mind~*~ ~~Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

This is a hard choice to make. I love music, but I also love to watch TV. I love the smell of grass being cut, bread in the oven, etc., so I don’t know which one I’d pick. I love to eat so that’s not an option either. I guess I would go with smell. Di

08/21/07: Today’s question is being brought to you by our very own Ray If you had to lose one of your senses which one would it be and why? Jackie

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

08/21/07: Today’s question is being brought to you by our very own Ray If you had to lose one of your senses which one would it be and why? Jackie

I lost a lot of my sense of smell after a bad cold I had as a teenager. It’s not so bad really – I prefer it to going blind or deaf. I can still smell farts and poo, sadly. =D — _TJ_

Response:

Urgent Education Advocacy Alert for Parents in New York State

admin — Sun, 16 Jul 2006 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Thunderbird does. You may not be familiar with her b/c she apparently doesn’t post here much any more, but she’s legitimate.

Agreed. Dr. Packer is well known to me.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know if you have been in contact yet with The Alliance to Prevent Restraint, Aversive Interventions, and Seclusion. Good group, sponsored by a number of national non-profits with an interest in protecting children with disabilities. Their parent guide is a great resource. Their web site is at http://www.aprais.org/ and the contact information is there. [posted and mailed] Nancy Unique, like everyone else [posting from ASAD] And what about the _New York Times_? Surely they’d be interested in reporting this (if they haven’t already). Imo, it should be widely publicized.

Newsday did an extensive expose on the use of electric shock devices to control students. There is a story in the NYT today about how Medicaid is hurting the disabled. If you email me, I will tell you more.

Response:

LOL. I know, I know. I’m gonna install it. Correction: I’m going to let DH install it, but probably not tonight, as he’s running late and will probably be wiped out by the time he gets home. marcia

Response:

No, no RL. She’s the real deal. I remember her from another NG quite a few years back. Expert on Tourette (however its spelled; Groups has no spellchecker), very dedicated and kind professional. Thunderbird does. LOL. I know, I know. I’m gonna install it. Correction: I’m going to let DH install it, but probably not tonight, as he’s running late and will probably be wiped out by the time he gets home.

It is easy. No problems, and the extensions are useful.

Response:

Or, perhaps she doesn’t want to be abused in the way many of us here have been? If you were in her position, would you want to have such lies about you posted all over Usenet, for anyone to find in a simple ‘net search? Kitten

Response:

If she [or anyone] is ashamed to have their posts archived. They HAVE a reason. IMO, it is because they KNOW they are out of line. As for being abused. YOU and your ilk have done just that. Like… Mark Probert.

Response:

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Yeppers! Usenets polymorphous parade of perverted drug pushers, drug addicts, convicted child molesters, child porno buffs, S & M Freaks, malicious hackers, lying stalking filth and/or their mentally ill supporters and apologists have archived nearly 11,000 defamatory posts about yours truly using just one of the ways my name is printed. Fortunately, defamation laws afford persons who have been defamed by other people special priveleges: therefore, the defamation law allows yours truly to publish articles ensuring that everyone who reads those 11,000 defamatory articles are aware the authors of the defamation are a polymorphous parade of morally degenerate drug pushers, drug addicts, child molesters, child porno buffs, adult porno kings, S & M Freaks, notorious cyberstalkers, and people with extensive psychiatric histories. The modus operandi of ASAD’s defamers is to defame someone as a troll, to signify to all it’s AOK for everyone to post false and slanderous accusations about the person. Given the definition of *troll* published in wikipedia, and given the legal definition of defamation—ASAD’s polymorphous parade of yahoo’s give up any and all rights they might have had under defamation laws the moment each yahoo posts a malicious article describing another as a troll—regardless, of what other false and slanderous allegations ASAD’s polymorphous parade of perverted yahoo’s publish about the posters they maliciously label a "troll".

Response:

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I agree. It’s not clear to me how anyone can read anything more than straightforward information in her post–nothing to be ashamed of or hide, nothing out of line–unless my reading comprehension has dropped signficantly in the past 48 hours. I think we’ve all seen how people can distort the truth and use it to promote malicious agendas, so the x-no-archive decision makes a lot of sense to me. Besides, why would anyone need this archived? At some point the article will be out-of-date, or will be replaced by more current information. marcia LSFC

Response:

And it’s nice ’seeing’ you again… if you’re the same "unique" poster I remember from a.s.t. way back when… if you’re not, then it’s nice to meet another ‘unique’ poster.

Yes, I am that Nancy. I still read AST on a regular basis, but I don’t post there much, as I don’t have much pertinent to say. (I know the readers of ASAD will find that hard to believe. LOL.) Nancy Unique, like everyone else

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IOW, please excuse the skulduggery. Your message is all ‘posture’. Theatre…. You might find the following book to be useful. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/185326699X/ RL

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [A copy of the full alert is posted at http://www.tourettesyndrome.net/actionalert071606.htm. A downloadable pdf version of the alert is at http://www.tourettesyndrome.net/Files/ActionAlert_ABI.pdf] As you may have heard already, a new set of "emergency" education regulations have been approved by the Board of Regents. Despite claiming to bar or prohibit certain things, these regulations actually open the door for all public schools, BOCES, state-approved private special education schools and the NYS Schools for the Blind and Deaf to use corporal punishment, aversives (such as painful electric skin shock), restraints, and time out rooms for children and teens with disabilities. NYSED enacted these new regulations even though they admit that there is no research supporting the use of most of these techniques. There is certainly no research validation for using most of these techniques in public school settings. There are already at least 23 school districts in NYS currently recommending the use of aversive behavioral interventions for disabled students, and probably many more already using aversive behavioral interventions without documenting what they have been doing to disabled children. These regulations need to be approved again at the Board of Regents meeting scheduled for September 11-12 in Albany. We all need to take action now. You have an opportunity to respond to these new regulations. See the State’s notice at http://www.vesid.nysed.gov/specialed/behavioral/publichearing.htm on how to provide feedback and deadlines for providing feedback. You can read the new regulations online at http://www.regents.nysed.gov/2006Meetings/June2006/0606emscvesida1.htm or get the pdf version at http://www.tourettesyndrome.net/Files/Cort_060606.pdf. To give you an idea how bad these regulations are, as per the new approved regulations: 1. Corporal punishment is barred — except that a teacher can apparently use restraint and physical force on a child to protect the school’s property or to remove the child or stop the child from interfering with a school function – even if the property is a 3-cent crayon and even if what the child is doing is a symptom of their disability (e.g., perseveratively asking questions or repeatedly tapping the crayon on the desk). 2. Children can be put in time out rooms with no specific requirements as to the staff training required for the person who monitors the child while the child is in the room, no medical assessment to see if time out would be dangerous for the child, no psychological assessment to determine if time out would be traumatic for the child, and no limit on how long a child can be put in time out for. 3. School personnel can use "aversive behavioral interventions" such as painful electric skin shock if they get a waiver to use it for the child. Other "aversives" that they may now use if they obtain a "waiver" include putting a child out in the cold without adequate clothing, withholding essential hydration or nutrition, using noxious sprays in the child’s face or making them inhale noxious scents, depriving them of sleep, and using "deep muscle squeezes" or "strangling." 4. School districts can obtain waivers to use "aversive behavioral interventions" for a specific child by applying to the Commissioner of Education’s office, who will send the request to an "expert panel" who will review the student’s records. The panel then advises the Commissioner and the district, but it is up to the child’s Committee on Special Education (CSE) or Committee on Preschool Special Education (CPSE) to decide whether to grant itself the waiver. Thus, the very same people who may have failed to order helpful diagnostic evaluations or related services may now approve the use of aversive behavioral interventions on a child. The new regulations do not mandate that any child being recommended for aversive behavioral interventions must have a psychiatric evaluation or a neurological evaluation at public expense before the CSE or CPSE can recommend or implement an aversive behavioral intervention. The new regulations do not require regular monitoring by medical and doctoral-level mental health professionals to insure the child’s health and safety. 5, School personnel can use restraints (mechanical) on children as part of a planned behavior intervention program. There is no time limit on how long the child or teen can be kept in mechanical restraints. Disabled children and teens require more protections when aversive behavioral interventions are implemented in school settings, not fewer protections. At the very least, NYSED should have incorporated all relevant federal protections concerning the use of restraints and seclusion (what NYS calls time out rooms). It didn’t. All relevant federal policies and commissions firmly state that restraints, time out, and ‘aversives’ should only be used for genuine safety emergencies, they should be used with significant medical and psychological/psychiatric protections, and they should never be used as punishment. NYSED’s new regulations do exactly the opposite by specifically allowing these techniques to be used as planned consequences for non-emergency situations and by failing to require even minimum health and safety protections. To read the entire action alert, with background on why NYSED did this and suggestions for how to write to your Regent and NYSED, please see the full alert at: http://www.tourettesyndrome.net/actionalert071606.htm Did you earn your PhD from the back of a cereal box? The x-no-archive makes a mockery of your message. … IMO. This is at least, the second time that you have done such a thing. If you wish for me to respect what you have posted whilst wagging the the initials "PhD" in my face; have the sense and decency to stand by what you post publicly. Methinks, you are a phony … Bugger off. [ BTW, you spelled "alt.suppport.tourette" wrong ... ]

The substance of the message is quite correct. I have been following it, and writing to some people about it. Newsday did an expose on it. I wish I could be more clear, but, that would involve posting personal information, which would be used by the stalkers.

Response:

Eh? What a flamer! I was referring to academic integrity, here. Taking the effort to make a strong, persuasive statement and concurrently asserting that it should not be archived. …… … s m e l l s b a d

Have you ever taken a good, long, hard look at the, ahem, curriculum vitae’s of the polymorphous parade of perverted human beings who have been cyberstalking, threatening, libeling, forging, frogging, impostering, hacking me in virtual reality, and, doing far worse things to me and mine in real life? Do you wish to be relentlessly cyberstalked, globally libeled, incessantly hacked, forged, froggered, impostered, the recipient of an endless stream of threats against you and your loved ones, while also being viciously stalked in real life—by a group of people who are the baddest of the baddest and the Maddest of ALL Mad people? Because, if you don’t want to be the target of vicious gang stalking in cyberspace and RL by the baddest of the baddest and the maddest of the maddest, then, you will not post anything which mocks, ridicules, derides, denigrates, devalues, or jeers at usenet’s lying stalking filth’s malignant leader. Besides, your flaming the malignant leader of usenet’s polymorphous parade of yadda, yadda, yadda might incite OP to do the same, which will unwittingly place them and their loved one’s in harm’s way. If the polymorphous parade of perverted human beings who have been engaging in criminal activities to control the flow of info on usenet ever fail to maintain the false perception that the polymorphous parade of perverted human beings engaging in criminal activities to control the flow of info on the WWW are *good*, *respectable* and *valuable* people—and, the posters they stalk, harass, threaten, libel, hack, forge, frogger, imposter, and, terrorize are evil demons, then, the polymorphous parade of perverted human beings who stalked Curio, Brad, Andrew, Tor, Art W. Hoof, yours truly, would all get locked up in prison for a long, long, long time. the reason the people who stalked Curio, Brad, Hoof, Andrew, me etc aren’t all in prison right now is because the public is in DENIAL of that which the US DOJ has known since 1999 "…..the U.S. Department of Justice (Reno, 1999) links cyberstalking with the activities of paedophiles" Enuff said! .

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Eh? What a flamer! I was referring to academic integrity, here. Taking the effort to make a strong, persuasive statement and concurrently asserting that it should not be archived. …… … s m e l l s b a d Have you ever taken a good, long, hard look at the, ahem, curriculum vitae’s of the polymorphous parade of perverted human beings who have been cyberstalking, threatening, libeling, forging, frogging, impostering, hacking me in virtual reality, and, doing far worse things to me and mine in real life? Do you wish to be relentlessly cyberstalked, globally libeled, incessantly hacked, forged, froggered, impostered, the recipient of an endless stream of threats against you and your loved ones, while also being viciously stalked in real life—by a group of people who are the baddest of the baddest and the Maddest of ALL Mad people? Because, if you don’t want to be the target of vicious gang stalking in cyberspace and RL by the baddest of the baddest and the maddest of the maddest, then, you will not post anything which mocks, ridicules, derides, denigrates, devalues, or jeers at usenet’s lying stalking filth’s malignant leader. …

Um … Or don’t go into academia, either … [snip] Enuff said!

Cordially, RL

Response:

Sometimes ‘being stressed’ and moving forwards is the only way to make it happen.

Sometimes being stressed leads to moving forward, a good thing. I still hate to see you in pain. marcia

Response:

And what about the _New York Times_? Surely they’d be interested in reporting this (if they haven’t already). Imo, it should be widely publicized.

Response:

Nor go for counseling…. And, most important of all, do not ever get counseling for a child… A child sent for counseling is apt to be made the recipient of photographed "hygeine" lessons, or worse…..

Response:

Eh? What a flamer!

I was referring to academic integrity, here. Taking the effort to make a strong, persuasive statement and concurrently asserting that it should not be archived. …… … s m e l l s b a d

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [A copy of the full alert is posted at http://www.tourettesyndrome.net/actionalert071606.htm. A downloadable pdf version of the alert is at http://www.tourettesyndrome.net/Files/ActionAlert_ABI.pdf] As you may have heard already, a new set of "emergency" education regulations have been approved by the Board of Regents. Despite claiming to bar or prohibit certain things, these regulations actually open the door for all public schools, BOCES, state-approved private special education schools and the NYS Schools for the Blind and Deaf to use corporal punishment, aversives (such as painful electric skin shock), restraints, and time out rooms for children and teens with disabilities. Talk about human rights violations! Do you have to be a resident of NY to protest, or can anyone join in? marcia I doubt if NYSED or the Board of Regents would particularly care what parents/individuals outside of NYS think, but I can think of one way parents outside of NY might be of real help: If your child was harmed by the inappropriate use of a behavioral or aversive intervention, then if you can document that, we might be able to compile a list of real examples of why these new regs are dangerous and why they should be withdrawn. We already know that NYSED has gotten a lot of complaints about misuse/abuse of time out rooms from NYS parents (and there are at least two time out room-related lawsuits that I know of here in NY), but to my knowledge, NYSED has never really investigated or done anything serious about preventing time out room misuse or abuse, even though they’ve had "guidelines" since 1994. The new regs only make things more dangerous with respect to time out rooms, because they don’t specify any actual time limit for how long a child can be placed in time out or how often, etc. The federal regulations do specify time limits. The federal regs also say that a patient is allowed out of seclusion once the health/safety emergency is over. NYSED’s regs allow the child to just be secluded for fixed amounts of time, even if there is no emergency. We also know of more extreme cases here in NYS and in other states where kids were seriously harmed in school settings due to inappropriate behavior interventions (like the Shawn Witte case in Nevada that I had posted to a.s.t. back in ‘99 and a case here in NYS where a kid was found unconscious in a time out room, having seizures), If people know of situations like that they can document, we can also use that information to help make the case to the Board of Regents as to why these regs should be withdrawn. When I contacted Pete and Pam Wright of Wrightslaw.com to tell them what was going on here and what we’re trying to do, they replied that they will be including a story or notice on this issue in their next newsletter, so I hope that we can reach even more parents through them. When I say "we," by the way, that’s not an editorial "we." Although I’m doing a lot of individual advocacy/alerts on this issue to local, state, and national organizations as well as to individual parents via my web site (and now usenet), I’m also involved in some collaborative advocacy efforts. In the future, I’ll be posting something about a new coalition we’re forming in NYS. In the meantime ,,,, if you know parents in other states who have stories/first-hand experiences to share that can help us advocate in NYS, have them contact me via email. Just delete the _nospam from the email address in this post to contact me. And I almost dread saying this, but to NYS parents: this is only one of TWO really serious issues in NYS education right now if you’re parenting a child with a disability. The other one is a "done deal" in terms of the regulations being permanent but is extremely serious as it involves the minimizing and coverup of the sexual molestation of severely disabled children in NY schools. Right now, we’re focusing on the "aversives" issue because we have a chance to change things before the regs become permanent, but you can expect to see more advocacy notices from me in the future on this issue and the sexual molestation issue. Have to get ready for work…

I don’t know if you have been in contact yet with The Alliance to Prevent Restraint, Aversive Interventions, and Seclusion. Good group, sponsored by a number of national non-profits with an interest in protecting children with disabilities. Their parent guide is a great resource. Their web site is at http://www.aprais.org/ and the contact information is there. [posted and mailed] Nancy Unique, like everyone else [posting from ASAD]

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Did you earn your PhD from the back of a cereal box? The x-no-archive makes a mockery of your message. … IMO. This is at least, the second time that you have done such a thing. If you wish for me to respect what you have posted whilst wagging the the initials "PhD" in my face; have the sense and decency to stand by what you post publicly. Methinks, you are a phony … Bugger off. [ BTW, you spelled "alt.suppport.tourette" wrong ... ] No, no RL. She’s the real deal. I remember her from another NG quite a few years back. Expert on Tourette (however its spelled; Groups has no spellchecker), very dedicated and kind professional. You may not be familiar with her b/c she apparently doesn’t post here much any more, but she’s legitimate. If she is for ‘real’ then all the more reason for making the emphasis that she should stick to her gumption. Let me guess … She is playing coy and insecure so that people will take more notice of what she posts. Thus, I am providing her with what she seeks … === Controversy <=== Whoopee.

Hmmm. No, I think you’re stressed and that’s interfering with your ability to be objective. You seem to be having a difficult evening, if I’m reading your other posts correctly. She’s posting information to relevant groups on a topic that’s of great concern. There’s no attempt to do anything other than alert people to a problem that needs to be addressed, I’m sure. From past recollection, she’s a very straightforward and trustworthy individual. Sorry things are continuing to go badly for you. (other groups cut from this portion of the thread) marcia

Response:

Did you earn your PhD from the back of a cereal box? The x-no-archive makes a mockery of your message. … IMO. Hmmm. No, I think you’re stressed and that’s interfering with your ability to be objective. …

I wasn’t the first person to point this out. See: http://tinyurl.com/qpoce Sometimes ‘being stressed’ and moving forwards is the only way to make it happen.

Response:

What a flamer! Surely you know that the polymorphous parade of perverted pharmaceutical marketeers, porno kings, child porno buffs, convicted child molesters, S & M freaks and the gutless anonymous lying stalking filth are all going to reply to your posts with the usual LIES about what a wonderful person their malignant leader is.

Response:

No, no RL. She’s the real deal. I remember her from another NG quite a few years back. Expert on Tourette (however its spelled; Groups has no spellchecker), very dedicated and kind professional. You may not be familiar with her b/c she apparently doesn’t post here much any more, but she’s legitimate. marcia

Response:

[A copy of the full alert is posted at http://www.tourettesyndrome.net/actionalert071606.htm. A downloadable pdf version of the alert is at http://www.tourettesyndrome.net/Files/ActionAlert_ABI.pdf] As you may have heard already, a new set of "emergency" education regulations have been approved by the Board of Regents. Despite claiming to bar or prohibit certain things, these regulations actually open the door for all public schools, BOCES, state-approved private special education schools and the NYS Schools for the Blind and Deaf to use corporal punishment, aversives (such as painful electric skin shock), restraints, and time out rooms for children and teens with disabilities.

Talk about human rights violations! Do you have to be a resident of NY to protest, or can anyone join in? marcia

Response:

If she is for ‘real’ then all the more reason for making the emphasis that she should stick to her gumption. Let me guess … She is playing coy and insecure so that people will take more notice of what she posts. Thus, I am providing her with what she seeks … === Controversy <=== Whoopee.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [A copy of the full alert is posted at http://www.tourettesyndrome.net/actionalert071606.htm. A downloadable pdf version of the alert is at http://www.tourettesyndrome.net/Files/ActionAlert_ABI.pdf] As you may have heard already, a new set of "emergency" education regulations have been approved by the Board of Regents. Despite claiming to bar or prohibit certain things, these regulations actually open the door for all public schools, BOCES, state-approved private special education schools and the NYS Schools for the Blind and Deaf to use corporal punishment, aversives (such as painful electric skin shock), restraints, and time out rooms for children and teens with disabilities. NYSED enacted these new regulations even though they admit that there is no research supporting the use of most of these techniques. There is certainly no research validation for using most of these techniques in public school settings. There are already at least 23 school districts in NYS currently recommending the use of aversive behavioral interventions for disabled students, and probably many more already using aversive behavioral interventions without documenting what they have been doing to disabled children. These regulations need to be approved again at the Board of Regents meeting scheduled for September 11-12 in Albany. We all need to take action now. You have an opportunity to respond to these new regulations. See the State’s notice at http://www.vesid.nysed.gov/specialed/behavioral/publichearing.htm on how to provide feedback and deadlines for providing feedback. You can read the new regulations online at http://www.regents.nysed.gov/2006Meetings/June2006/0606emscvesida1.htm or get the pdf version at http://www.tourettesyndrome.net/Files/Cort_060606.pdf. To give you an idea how bad these regulations are, as per the new approved regulations: 1. Corporal punishment is barred — except that a teacher can apparently use restraint and physical force on a child to protect the school’s property or to remove the child or stop the child from interfering with a school function – even if the property is a 3-cent crayon and even if what the child is doing is a symptom of their disability (e.g., perseveratively asking questions or repeatedly tapping the crayon on the desk). 2. Children can be put in time out rooms with no specific requirements as to the staff training required for the person who monitors the child while the child is in the room, no medical assessment to see if time out would be dangerous for the child, no psychological assessment to determine if time out would be traumatic for the child, and no limit on how long a child can be put in time out for. 3. School personnel can use "aversive behavioral interventions" such as painful electric skin shock if they get a waiver to use it for the child. Other "aversives" that they may now use if they obtain a "waiver" include putting a child out in the cold without adequate clothing, withholding essential hydration or nutrition, using noxious sprays in the child’s face or making them inhale noxious scents, depriving them of sleep, and using "deep muscle squeezes" or "strangling." 4. School districts can obtain waivers to use "aversive behavioral interventions" for a specific child by applying to the Commissioner of Education’s office, who will send the request to an "expert panel" who will review the student’s records. The panel then advises the Commissioner and the district, but it is up to the child’s Committee on Special Education (CSE) or Committee on Preschool Special Education (CPSE) to decide whether to grant itself the waiver. Thus, the very same people who may have failed to order helpful diagnostic evaluations or related services may now approve the use of aversive behavioral interventions on a child. The new regulations do not mandate that any child being recommended for aversive behavioral interventions must have a psychiatric evaluation or a neurological evaluation at public expense before the CSE or CPSE can recommend or implement an aversive behavioral intervention. The new regulations do not require regular monitoring by medical and doctoral-level mental health professionals to insure the child’s health and safety. 5, School personnel can use restraints (mechanical) on children as part of a planned behavior intervention program. There is no time limit on how long the child or teen can be kept in mechanical restraints. Disabled children and teens require more protections when aversive behavioral interventions are implemented in school settings, not fewer protections. At the very least, NYSED should have incorporated all relevant federal protections concerning the use of restraints and seclusion (what NYS calls time out rooms). It didn’t. All relevant federal policies and commissions firmly state that restraints, time out, and ‘aversives’ should only be used for genuine safety emergencies, they should be used with significant medical and psychological/psychiatric protections, and they should never be used as punishment. NYSED’s new regulations do exactly the opposite by specifically allowing these techniques to be used as planned consequences for non-emergency situations and by failing to require even minimum health and safety protections. To read the entire action alert, with background on why NYSED did this and suggestions for how to write to your Regent and NYSED, please see the full alert at: http://www.tourettesyndrome.net/actionalert071606.htm

Did you earn your PhD from the back of a cereal box? The x-no-archive makes a mockery of your message. … IMO. This is at least, the second time that you have done such a thing. If you wish for me to respect what you have posted whilst wagging the the initials "PhD" in my face; have the sense and decency to stand by what you post publicly. Methinks, you are a phony … Bugger off. [ BTW, you spelled "alt.suppport.tourette" wrong ... ]

Response:

Chip

admin — Thu, 29 Jun 2006 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Mike, I don’t know if you saw this post, so I’m reposting it for you to read. Chip A carcinoma in situ is considered a Stage 0 (zero) colorectal cancer. Thanks for the support, Chip. If you come across anything you think may be helpful, please send it my way.

Treatment by Stage of Colon Cancer Stage 0: Since your cancer has not grown beyond the inner lining of the colon, surgery to take out the cancer is all that is needed. This may be accomplished in many cases by polypectomy or local excision through the colonoscope. Colon resection may be necessary if your tumor is too big to be removed by local excision. http://www.cancer.org/docroot/CRI/content/CRI_2_4_4X_Treatment_by_Sta… Copyright 2005

Extra Bonus Question: Are you disabled?

admin — Fri, 26 May 2006 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

No Longer Playing? Naughty Looting Pilgrim? Non Lost Person? Norma Laurie Parsons? or for me… No Longer Pickled! Tony — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hey Rita, I’ll tell you something. Driving on the highway is not nearly as bad as my mind had blown it up to be. It’s really not bad at all. I don’t like to get on it when it’s busy. I don’t care for that, but otherwise, I’ve found that I don’t have the patience to take the other roads and sit at stop lights all of the time. Especially with gas prices as high as they are. I’m not saying I’m totally cured. I don’t ever get on, when I don’t feel some form of hesitance – usually that strikes me just as I am already ON the entrance ramp and have absolutely NO choice but to get on the highway – but I just have found that what I thought vs. reality is quite different. It’s good practice for me, because the very best way home from work, well, I have to take the highway. I did believe that my fear would actually cause me to wreck, but that was just something my mind had created. I won’t push, because the decision to ever try it or not is yours. It’s just that you KNOW I have suffered from this a long time – and I’m doing what I feared for so long. I know if I can do it, you can. Love, Sally — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Do you think of yourself as being disabled? Is that a label you try to avoid, or is it accurate? Can you still do most or all of the things you could do before you were ill, or are your abilities now somewhat impaired?

I don’t. But the question has made me think a lot. I’m holding down what most normal people would find a stressful job, I’m managing to keep my family intact, despite various pressures over the years, I even sometimes manage to spend a little time on hobbies, though rarely these days. But it takes so much energy to force myself to do those things, I can’t manage to do a lot of other things. I’ve never been able to learn to drive, and when I’m honest with myself I have to accept that I never will. That keeps me and my family away from a lot of places. I don’t go out much, dealing with the crowds all of the working week makes me spend most of my weekend in the quietest places I can find, recovering my strength for the next week. And I’ve been like this since I was 12. My whole life is structured around avoiding things I can’t deal with, and making sure I have a way out when the panic hits, and really has been for nearly as long as I can remember. I think a part of the reason I’ve gotten so little help from pdocs is that I’m already in as good a place as I’ll ever be. That and they tend to get distracted by things I don’t consider a problem. Am I disabled? No one can do everything. I can just do a little less than most. But I can still do more than some. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi Elise, I don’t understand NLP well enough to explain it It is something called neuro-linguistic programming, and is supposed to be a way to ‘reprogram’ peoples brains. There is a famous hypnotist called Paul McKenna who had a TV show in the UK last year where he used NLP to cure a lot of people with quite serious phobias. Have you tried the conventional ‘desensitisation’ approach for your phobia? — _TJ_

Response:

Hi, TJ, I have tried a small amount of desensitization with the help of my therapist. Not much success with it though. I’ll have to check the NLP out OL and see what it says. Thanks. smiles, Elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, TJ, My driving fear started with tons of anxiety and then became a phobia. I’m now more scared that if I ventured onto the highway or interstate I would hurt myself or someone else. What’s NLP? smiles, Elise Hi Elise, I don’t understand NLP well enough to explain it It is something called neuro-linguistic programming, and is supposed to be a way to ‘reprogram’ peoples brains. There is a famous hypnotist called Paul McKenna who had a TV show in the UK last year where he used NLP to cure a lot of people with quite serious phobias. Have you tried the conventional ‘desensitisation’ approach for your phobia? — _TJ_

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, TJ, If it weren’t for my driving issues I wouldn’t feel so impaired. But seeing how this affects many arts of my life then yes do feel disabled. I still do many of the things I did before and still avoid thing such as public speaking, avoid being in the limelight, etc. smiles, Elise

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Do you think of yourself as being disabled? Is that a label you try to avoid, or is it accurate?

Being disabled is one way to describe me, but it’s not everything I am. The doctors told the government that I am disabled so I can stay home and be miserable instead of having to go OUT THERE and be even more miserable. Can you still do most or all of the things you could do before you were ill, or are your abilities now somewhat impaired?

I don’t have the social skills I used to have. I have more fears and suspicions. I can’t dance or work out or go for walks (part of the depression/ obesity/ social phobia thing) I can’t hold down a job. The last few times I tried I broke down in the office. When I couldn’t find work after I got my degree at age 48 I just gave up entirely. I used to work 40 hours a week AND have a social life. I can barely remember what that’s like. Yeah, I’m disabled. I also make really good spaghetti sauce, I know all the words to "American Pie", and I take damn good care of my mom. I don’t wear a badge with any of these things proclaimed on them. They’re all just facts about me. Deirdre — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Thank you, Elise – that means an awful lot to me (hugs) Deirdre Hi, Deirdre, And we love you for the person you are… You truly are a good daughter and don’t ever forget that. smiles, Elise Yeah, I’m disabled. I also make really good spaghetti sauce, I know all the words to "American Pie", and I take damn good care of my mom. I don’t wear a badge with any of these things proclaimed on them. They’re all just facts about me. Deirdre

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, TJ, My driving fear started with tons of anxiety and then became a phobia. I’m now more scared that if I ventured onto the highway or interstate I would hurt myself or someone else. What’s NLP? smiles, Elise – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Elise. You seem to have a good, old-fashioned phobia about driving on the highway. My understanding is that this is one of the easier anxiety-type problems to fix if the approach is right. Have you ever explored hypnotherapy or NLP? I am told the results can often be fantastic with these methods. I’m not trying to diminish the severity of your problem as only you really know how bad it is, but it is always good news IMO when you know exactly what you are afraid of. It’s the poor saps who are afraid of everything or nothing that are really bewildered as there is nothing specific for a therapist to attack. Apologies if you have already tried everything and nothing worked — _TJ_

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, Deirdre, And we love you for the person you are… You truly are a good daughter and don’t ever forget that. smiles, Elise Yeah, I’m disabled. I also make really good spaghetti sauce, I know all the words to "American Pie", and I take damn good care of my mom. I don’t wear a badge with any of these things proclaimed on them. They’re all just facts about me. Deirdre — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi Elise. You seem to have a good, old-fashioned phobia about driving on the highway. My understanding is that this is one of the easier anxiety-type problems to fix if the approach is right. Have you ever explored hypnotherapy or NLP? I am told the results can often be fantastic with these methods. I’m not trying to diminish the severity of your problem as only you really know how bad it is, but it is always good news IMO when you know exactly what you are afraid of. It’s the poor saps who are afraid of everything or nothing that are really bewildered as there is nothing specific for a therapist to attack. Apologies if you have already tried everything and nothing worked — _TJ_

Response:

No. I feel like my disorders, starting with my "nervous breakdown" (for lack of a better term) have closed some doors, but opened new, better doors for me. I am actually thankful (oh, but I do have my pissy days still, believe me) most of the time for being "ill". I am more empathetic now, I have more patience, more free time, I can stop and smell the roses, I am more creative, and I appreciate the little things. I know what’s important in life and what’s not. If I didn’t have anxiety and panic, I don’t know where I would be now, but I’m betting I’d still be on that treadmill, running in the rat race, learning little. Now let’s all sing…"All we need is love…" Dawn — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I have a disability. I don’t put labels on myself. Sally — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes, I am disabled. On the good side, with the use of meds, I can do a lot of things that I couldn’t before…. On the bad side, the side effects of the meds make me not want to do much, and also make me sleep a lot more than 8 hours a day. I just woke up from a much needed 4 hour nap. If I don’t get enough sleep, it’s a big trigger for more anxiety/panic. If I could do it, I’d trade my anxiety/panic/paranoia and all the meds that go with it for the ability to work 40 hours a week in a heartbeat. Tony I am disabled too. :-( I suppose there are many types of disability. Mine is not the same as a blind person’s, or a wheelchair-bound person’s, or even the same as yours. All I know is I used to be able to do a lot of things ‘normal’ people do without a second thought. And now I can’t. My meds help some, but certainly not a lot. CBT helps a little too, but is far from perfect. I am still in a hole and all the experts I’ve seen are unable to fix me. I am told I have to get used to anxiety and panic as it can’t be completely cured except in very rare cases. I find I can cope with it reasonably well if I am not too depressed. But when I am down I can barely manage my anxiety at all.

Yes, depression is… well, you know. If I talk about it I may send myself into a depression so I don’t talk about it when I’m not depressed. My condition seems to be very atypical too. When I explain my symptoms no one believes me! My pdoc doesn’t believe me. My therapist doesn’t. My GP didn’t.

I’d be looking for a new pdoc, therapist, and GP! People on ASAPM don’t believe me. Everyone thinks they know what is going on inside my body better than I do! But I’m the only person who really knows what I’m going through and that is a very lonely feeling.

Well honestly I haven’t followed enough of your posts to form any opinion. Quite often I have enough to read and reply that I skip many posts. I’m sorry to hear that you feel the people here at asapm think that way. I’ll try to remember to check out your posts in the future. On the subject of sleep. I normally sleep for 10.5 hours a night without meds. No one can tell me why. With meds I can do 14+ hours easy. But I have bad insomnia right now so I’m only getting 6-7. This makes me so tired and anxious all the time I havn’t had a job for 4 years now. I’m not sure when I’ll work again. I also would give everything I own to be healthy enough to hold down a job like a normal person. I’m just so sick of being this way. I’m so sick of being sick. Anyway, that’s my moan for the day done

Hope you feel better tomorrow, even if it’s just a little bit better. Little steps add up to big ones. Tony — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

If I could do it, I’d trade my anxiety/panic/paranoia and all the meds that go with it for the ability to work 40 hours a week in a heartbeat.

Hell yeah, Tony. It would bring some added side benefits as well. Little things like a CAR, holy crap, I would love to own a car. Or a wife. Gotta have one of those. Or a house, or kids. A TV that I could zone out to, good food to eat. Ah well. I may not have any of these things, but I have my cat, and my computer, and that’s enough for now. Ian — http://sundry.ws/ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Do you think of yourself as being disabled?

Yeah, and I’ve sort of fought with the people around me for years to get them to see it too. I don’t bother with the idea that it’s a label I can’t shake off. That pops up occasionally, such as on other Usenet groups, where people hold it against me, but in the main, I have to assert to people what I can and cannot do. I think I’ve been disabled all my life, but I was at a much higher level of functioning when I was younger. I think that when I got on SSDI, I started a slow descent. Maybe that’s because I had nothing to do with my time. Certainly everyone around me feels that way. They think if I just *did* things, I would be able to get off disability. Never mind that I’m too damn tired and stressed out to get anything accomplished. I sometimes have to remind people that I didn’t have to go through the courts, or even through an agency, to apply for disability. I took the bus down to Social Security, filled out the forms, and three months later I was given SSDI and SSI. This means, in other words, that people should *leave me alone* when it comes to all this "well, I think if you just did x or y, you would get better", etc. I really just want the world to get off my back, because it’s heavy, and I have a bad back. Not that I’m bitter. I think part of the problem is that some of my brain functions perfectly well, and I come across as a normie, especially on Usenet. This is because I won’t fake symptoms just to seem consistent. I try my hardest every day to act normal and lead as normal a life as possible, even if that only means getting on the Internet and talking with people. The fact that it then makes me seem normal, and people get on my back, it can’t be helped. Wow. I guess I *am* pretty bitter about all this. It’s been a long long time that I’ve been dealing with all this crap. I never really talk about it, either. Ian — http://sundry.ws/ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I don’t. There are times I have difficulties but I have held jobs during the worst times with this panic. It is one of those things, in my mind, that if you have it under control (if it’s possible) then it’s like anything else, like diabetes, HBP, etc. I can’t give in to being disabled although there are times I don’t know how I will do some things I need to do. Vicki — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

That’s a very interesting question. In the normal run of things I would say that I have to be classed as disabled in order to fit into the social mold that is our society. So, for example, in order to receive Social Security benefits I need to be clased as disabled. That is a necessity since the job market is closed to me because of my condition, and therefore it isn’t possible for me to receive a regular, life-sustaining income in the society as it has evolved into what it is today. Having said that, if we lived in a different type of society which didn’t require a person to have a job as we know it today in order to receive an income, or in a society where money wasn’t the currency for obtaining the things required to live, then maybe I wouldn’t be classed as disabled. Since most jobs require an amount of travel and an interaction with other people, the two things which anxiety sufferers find most difficult, then that fact makes necessary the classification of the sufferer of this condition as disabled. If jobs didn’t require these two things, then perhaps there would be no need for such a classification. If someone has a fear of heights, for example, you can forgive them for not obtaining employment as a mountain rescuer. But this wouldn’t require them to be classed as disabled as there are many other jobs that they can do. A person with a fear of rats wouldn’t go for employment as a sewer worker. They wouldn’t be classified as disabled. But because of the nature of work in our society, anyone with a fear of leaving their house (agoraphobia) or meeting and interacting with people (social phobia) is classed as disabled simply because it rules out 99% of the work opportunities available. But where’s the difference? In all cases the sufferer is afraid of something. The main difference comes in whether they can do a job or not and contribute to the Government’s taxation scheme. In all cases their abilities are impaired in that they are unable to do something. But is it reasonable to expect everyone to be able to do everything? I doubt it. It seems that the classification of disabled depends on the amount of things that a person cannot do, and also the nature of those things. The line is blurred, however, since I’ve seen people in wheelchairs playing basketball and football. They would be classed as disabled, but are able to do more than some anxiety sufferers in the sports field. Yet the anxiety sufferers may well be able to perform tasks better in the home than the wheelchair-bound people. Which is more disabled? I’ve seen wheelchair users holding down jobs, as well as blind and deaf people: all classed as disabled. But if an anxiety sufferer holds down a job, are they still disabled? Not according to our Social Security system, because the disability can’t be seen. So no, I don’t see myself as disabled. That’s merely a classification that I have to use in order to fit into the current social system. Everyone is a person, born equal, but different. If that difference is a slight change in how the brain works, so what? No – not disabled, merely developed in a particular way. Steve. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Yes, I am disabled. On the good side, with the use of meds, I can do a lot of things that I couldn’t before…. On the bad side, the side effects of the meds make me not want to do much, and also make me sleep a lot more than 8 hours a day. I just woke up from a much needed 4 hour nap. If I don’t get enough sleep, it’s a big trigger for more anxiety/panic. If I could do it, I’d trade my anxiety/panic/paranoia and all the meds that go with it for the ability to work 40 hours a week in a heartbeat. Tony — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I am disabled too. :-( I suppose there are many types of disability. Mine is not the same as a blind person’s, or a wheelchair-bound person’s, or even the same as yours. All I know is I used to be able to do a lot of things ‘normal’ people do without a second thought. And now I can’t. My meds help some, but certainly not a lot. CBT helps a little too, but is far from perfect. I am still in a hole and all the experts I’ve seen are unable to fix me. I am told I have to get used to anxiety and panic as it can’t be completely cured except in very rare cases. I find I can cope with it reasonably well if I am not too depressed. But when I am down I can barely manage my anxiety at all. My condition seems to be very atypical too. When I explain my symptoms no one believes me! My pdoc doesn’t believe me. My therapist doesn’t. My GP didn’t. People on ASAPM don’t believe me. Everyone thinks they know what is going on inside my body better than I do! But I’m the only person who really knows what I’m going through and that is a very lonely feeling. On the subject of sleep. I normally sleep for 10.5 hours a night without meds. No one can tell me why. With meds I can do 14+ hours easy. But I have bad insomnia right now so I’m only getting 6-7. This makes me so tired and anxious all the time I havn’t had a job for 4 years now. I’m not sure when I’ll work again. I also would give everything I own to be healthy enough to hold down a job like a normal person. I’m just so sick of being this way. I’m so sick of being sick. Anyway, that’s my moan for the day done — _TJ_

Response:

Catheter configuration

admin — Sat, 04 Feb 2006 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Many decades ago, (70s?) they discovered that long-term neosporin use could be related to deafness (I think with children). I don’t know if this correlation even held up under further scrutiny. I don’t think that this would be at all comporable to 2 weeks of cath lubrication, but I can see how a nurse, who worked in the field back when, could recall "Neosporin is bad" without any specifics. Read the cautions on the label. Just don’t slather your kids in it for months on end. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "KenA" wrote.. if you remember why the VA nurses recommended against [lubing the catheter], I’d be interested in knowing. I Googled up my original post on that. The senior nurse I asked gave no reason for not using an ointment. The only aspect of it she gave a reason for was not NOT using alcohol to clean it, as it erodes tissue. I’d tend to go with what works for others, plus asking one’s own nurses. The VA has a huge statistical base, but also a lot of inertia. I.P.

Response:

I used the large bag exclusively except when I went out (and I went out a lot w/ it – even to the bar!) and I wore regular pants from the get-go. My hose was long enough (oh, come on, guys!) that it simply exited the bottom of the pants leg and I still had a couple of feet. I took a coat hanger, straightened it out, and hooked it to the bag – I could then walk around w/ the bag down low but w/ the "handle" at hand level. Standing up cooking – hand the closed end over a cabinet knob; I put one of those big metal clips on the edge of my desktop and hung the whole thing on it. I promise you – I am the poster boy for the catheter – I had NO trouble whatsoever. I also wore boxer briefs to keep the catheter from moving around and tugging on the business end. Bill Denton RP 2/12/02 PSA .67 Memphis

Response:

"Tom"

Once the tube leaves my body, where it goes is MY choice, as long as it doesn’t go above its upper opening inside my bladder. I found the bag-in-a-bucket approach extremely convenient at home and in the car. I hardly used the leg bag at all. I.P.

Response:

Frank, I read all of the advice and it was all great. I’ll tell you mine…being in Chicago, I found basketball ’snap-pants’ (I had Michael Jordan pants…with a ‘23′ and Bulls logo on them Like I.P., I used the BIG night bag all the time and kept it in a bucket. Never the leg bag. I went out and carried the big bag in a bucket (covered by a towel or T-shirt). It came out thru the snaps at any level. If you use sweats…just cut a hole in them and thread the tube out where you wish. About lube…great advice. I used bacitracin, but Neosporin is fine too. Slide the penis up a bit…and lube the cath LIBERALLY with the ointment. (You can’t use too much). Then, when the penis slides back down…it will be lubed. I thought that it was better to use the ‘big bag’ than to switch to a leg bag and straps. Your wife doesn’t really need to sew velcro in…the slit is fine. You’ll have it for 10 days or so…and it will be OK. Any questions…just ask. My best wishes, Ron B. Chicago

Response:

I asked my VA nurses, who see PC pts by the hundreds locally and the VA collects PC data by the thousands, about lubing the catheter with antibiotic ointment. They emphatically said not to do it. If they gave a reason, I’ve forgotten it. I.P.

Response:

I used a leg bag during the day after reading Walsh’s warning about the possible consequences of an accidental pull on the cath. I didn’t like the idea of a long tube hanging out there. Of course, I did have a puppy in the house at the time. Tom

Response:

Right from the get-go I noticed a burning, painful sensation whenever I moved around a bit. After a few days I discovered I could replicate the sensation by manually sliding the tube in and out a centimeter or so. Close inspection revealed a dried splotch of blood on the underside of the tube that was acting like a rasp every time the tube slid one way or the other. Scraped the splotch off and all was well for the duration. No ointment or lube needed. Just thought I’d mention one more thing to look for if everything doesn’t seem quite right. I’m also one of those with the tube going down the pantleg and back up the outside. I carried the bag in a cloth tote with a handle. I’d drop the bag down the pantleg and then put on the pants. Went walking at the mall and around the neighborhood proudly displaying my satchel and cranberry gradually changing to lemon juice filled tube. Either nobody noticed or they were too polite to make it obvious. I did use the leg bag once or twice but the big bag was more convenient for me. I thought of going without a bag, just the tube dangling below my shorts when out barefoot in the yard (it was summer at the time) but my doctor wife was horrified and nixed the idea claiming that would compromise the sterility, etc., etc.. No matter, you will get used to whatever suits you best and you will do fine although the day it goes will be one of your better days. Dave Perry

Response:

Went walking at the mall and around the neighborhood proudly displaying my satchel and cranberry gradually changing to lemon juice filled tube. Either nobody noticed or they were too polite to make it obvious.

Their skin was crawling in disgust! Or maybe they thought it was ricin and didn’t want to offend you. Maybe they were just relieved it wasn’t a colostomy bag. Or the older half of the crowd have been there, the younger half didn’t even see it because it didn’t have Brad’s or Angelina’s picture on it, and the Birkenstockers just thought, "Cool camelback, dude!" And, of course, author Joseph Heller just smiled and thought of Yossarian. I.P.

Response:

Thanks for the suggestions. I have decided to get a pair of sweat pants, make a slit in one leg, and my wife will add a few velcro tabs.

I seem to be in the minority but I found the leg bag to be just fine during the day. It’s true the overnight back holds more but if you just wear baggy pants you can pull the pant leg up past your knee and get to the drain valve. I could easily just go in a stall at a rest room, pull up the pant leg, bend my leg a little and it was just like peeing including shaking the end of the valve after I closed it to get the last drops off. My leg back strapped to my thigh. I’ve heard of some that strap down by your ankle.

Response:

Since I feel that use of an antibacterial ointment *significantly* minimized my cath. discomfort, if you remember why the VA nurses recommended against it, I’d be interested in knowing. It seemed such a logical thing to do with at least the 3 benefits I mentioned that I could think of. It leaves me quite puzzled as to what the disadvantages would be, especially since it (Neosporin/Polysporin, etc) contains an antibiotic. Has anyone else done this and had any negative effects? KenA

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I asked my VA nurses, who see PC pts by the hundreds locally and the VA collects PC data by the thousands, about lubing the catheter with antibiotic ointment. They emphatically said not to do it. If they gave a reason, I’ve forgotten it. I.P.

Response:

"KenA" wrote.. if you remember why the VA nurses recommended against [lubing the catheter], I’d be interested in knowing.

I Googled up my original post on that. The senior nurse I asked gave no reason for not using an ointment. The only aspect of it she gave a reason for was not NOT using alcohol to clean it, as it erodes tissue. I’d tend to go with what works for others, plus asking one’s own nurses. The VA has a huge statistical base, but also a lot of inertia. I.P.

Response:

It had been mentioned here long ago that some nurses said not to use the OINTMENT cuz it might eat into the cath rubber tubing. They thought a water-based lube would be better…but it DRIED too fast. I asked about that when I had my surgery and they said that ‘these days’, most of the tubing used can handle the Neosporin or Bacitracin (which I was given 6 tubes of . Dave (judamd) mentioned a great point about a dried spot of blood on the cath tube that acted as a ‘rasp’ on the penis. Good point…uh…BAD point, actually. :) And Jim talked about the leg bag…indeed it works OK…but after the production of the surgery…I didn’t want to be switching ANYTHING. About the ‘cranberry to lemon’ colored tube peeking out of the bag…I used an old shirt sleeve to sorta cover it. Best to all, Ron B. Chicago

Response:

A couple of things. First, the concern about the tube getting tugged is a real one but I solved that one by shaving my thigh and using the surgical tape I scarfed from the hospital to completely secure the connector to my thigh – it was not going anywhere. Second, the reason I advocate boxer briefs is to minmize the catheter moving in and out of the penis – if you use loose pants that thing is going to be swaying w/ every step and movement. There is just no need to slit pants or sew anything; I don’t get that. I wore regular pants (like Dockers), even over the leg bag, and no one ever knew a thing when I went out. Before surgery I prepared my bedroom for an invalid but the morning after getting home I just got up, showered, dressed, went downstairs, and had my usual coffee and paper. From then on it was a breeze. My brother, who had surgery the same day as I, is married and his wife doted on him and he stayed in bed like an invalid – and he took far longer to get over the whole thing than I did. Bill Denton RP 2/12/02 PSA .67 Memphis

Response:

Frank, All cath bags strap to your leg and pants of any kind are worn over it. I’m not sure what you mean by external. Basically the tube comes out of your penis and goes right into the bag. All clothing is worn over it, tube, bag and all. Tom

Tom, What he means is he wants to use the internal bag he had in the hospital. It’s not a leg bag. Don

Response:

Thanks for the suggestions. I have decided to get a pair of sweat pants, make a slit in one leg, and my wife will add a few velcro tabs.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I am scheduled to have an RRP in less than three weeks and am trying to get my logistics in order. This newsgroup is a real godsend. I appreciate your efforts to make other people’s lives easier. I am trying to determine what to wear while the catheter is in. I would like to keep my legs warm so the circulation is good. Several posts recommended sweat pants and that sounded good to me. However, I plan to use the external urine bag only and it isn’t clear to me how I would get the catheter tube from my leg to the external bag. Can the tube come from my leg back up my pants and then out? If you have suggestions other than sweat pants, I would love to hear them. Thanks. Frank

Response:

I am scheduled to have an RRP in less than three weeks and am trying to get my logistics in order. This newsgroup is a real godsend. I appreciate your efforts to make other people’s lives easier. I am trying to determine what to wear while the catheter is in. I would like to keep my legs warm so the circulation is good. Several posts recommended sweat pants and that sounded good to me. However, I plan to use the external urine bag only and it isn’t clear to me how I would get the catheter tube from my leg to the external bag. Can the tube come from my leg back up my pants and then out? If you have suggestions other than sweat pants, I would love to hear them. Thanks. Frank

Response:

Snap-on warmup pants! Since the entire side is closed by snaps, you have many choices of where to have the tube emerge. Or just cut a slit in some thick sweat pants. You don’t want any part of the drain system above the internal parts of the system because that would risk backflow (unless you trust an anti-backflow valve 100%). Tape your catheter to your thigh (the GOOD tape in the catheter kits will stay in place for weeks yet pull off hairy legs painlessly), run the tube down to the opening in your warm-up pants, lay your bag in a bucket with a handle, and you’re completely mobile. If you want to go to the mall, substitute the leg bag for the big bag and press on. I.P.

Response:

Hi Frank! I’d also highly recommend keeping the cath. tube and tip of your penis coated with something like Neosporin ointment to be more comfortable. For me, it: 1. Significantly minimized the discomfort/negative effects of the tub rubbing at the tip of the penis. 2. Protected the sensitive penis head skin for any ‘urine burns’ caused by urine leakage around the cath. 3. Provided some small degree of antibiotic protection at the end of the penis. I feel this one thing helped me significantly deal with the cath. The one time I forgot to re-apply, I was rudely awakened by a very uncomfortable tube chaffing against the opening of my penis at about 3:15am one morning. A quick dab of Neosporin eliminated the chaffing and I went back to sleep. HTH, KenA ===== – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am scheduled to have an RRP in less than three weeks and am trying to get my logistics in order. This newsgroup is a real godsend. I appreciate your efforts to make other people’s lives easier. I am trying to determine what to wear while the catheter is in. I would like to keep my legs warm so the circulation is good. Several posts recommended sweat pants and that sounded good to me. However, I plan to use the external urine bag only and it isn’t clear to me how I would get the catheter tube from my leg to the external bag. Can the tube come from my leg back up my pants and then out? If you have suggestions other than sweat pants, I would love to hear them. Thanks. Frank

Response:

well

admin — Mon, 19 Dec 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

If I am 60 something, and I put on the TV constantly in a foreign language quite different from English, will I eventually learn the language simply from exposure, or will it always sound like babble babble bump? I speak simply of leaving the TV on in the language, but making no conscious effort to learn or retain. I simply stare at the pictures, hear the sound, and say to myself uh yes I see. I also am not referring to watching a language a previously studied in High school or College. If I studied Spanish and French and am a native speaker of English, can I acquire Polish or Russian simply by staring at the Cable Channel in that language, or will I become some kind of living cartoon in the house? I wish to …… well, you get the idea

immigrants learn english this way sometimes, so i guess you could. although it would probably be easiest to learn spanish as it has many cognates- words that are almost the same as english. languages with totally unfamiliar sounds and words would be the hardest to learn, i would think. kate

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If I am 60 something, and I put on the TV constantly in a foreign language quite different from English, will I eventually learn the language simply from exposure, or will it always sound like babble babble bump? I speak simply of leaving the TV on in the language, but making no conscious effort to learn or retain. I simply stare at the pictures, hear the sound, and say to myself uh yes I see. I also am not referring to watching a language a previously studied in High school or College. If I studied Spanish and French and am a native speaker of English, can I acquire Polish or Russian simply by staring at the Cable Channel in that language, or will I become some kind of living cartoon in the house? I wish to …… well, you get the idea immigrants learn english this way sometimes, so i guess you could. although it would probably be easiest to learn spanish as it has many cognates- words that are almost the same as english. languages with totally unfamiliar sounds and words would be the hardest to learn, i would think. kate

I’m pretty good at languages – I speak 2 fluently, a third pretty well, four more well enough to read a newspaper and have simple conversations, a few more so with a few words and some sign language I can make myself understood. But watching TV in a foreign langage is one of the hardest things to me. I can only watch TV in my fluent languages. Problem is, if you’ve learned a language in school, you have mostly a visual grasp of the words, and as you listen, you are madly trying to sort out individual words from this continuous stream of sounds, correlate them to the words you know, work out what the whole sentence means – and by then, the speaker is 3 sentences farther along. Also native speakers drop words and don’t pronounce them the way you learned them in school. We had a Polish kid staying with us, trying to learn some English, and he asked me once: what does garragerup mean? Garragerup means I have got to get up. You see the problem. But then when you’re living in a country and being immersed in the language you don’t have the same visual-auditory disconnect. You hear it all around you, catch the odd word, try to use it, get feedback, gradually you build up a vocabulary and some kind of feel for how it works. That’s how kids learn language – pretty much unconsciously. And watching TV can certainly be part of that process. If you learn a language that way as an adult, you probably won’t ever get it quite right, but in a year or so you’ll get along OK and understand most things. My mother lived in English-speaking countries for 40 years, and studied it in school, and still wasn’t very good, so I guess it’s also a matter of having a knack for it.

Response:

Thanks. I already understand Spanish. That’s not the problem.

Response:

Bob K …all's well in spite of my venomous attacks

admin — Fri, 16 Dec 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

One person’s "blush" is another person’s

::whisperin’ sweet nothings inta yer ear:: ~~~~ has anyone ever written anything for you? in all your darkest hours have you ever heard me sing…listen to me now…you know I’d our lives… they are poets… yet they are priests of nothing……. (and i know we have a connection) ~~~~~~~ (i luv’ah pilea’h syrupy stuff) ::killin’ me softly with your song, tellin’ tha whole world:: on like a yoyo.. wake me UP.. b’fore ya go go… take me dancin’ tanite… (i wanna jitterbug) ::crawlin’ to muh luvah boy:: "..c’mere, luvah boy…." ~G’s honey

Response:

My language would be different but I agree with your opinion expressed here. Meryl

maybe i’m grossin’ ya out? (truth is, Gary’s tha only boy i consider "sponge-worthy") …. maybe Steve at’ah james taylor/carly simon concert… (mockin’bird, now ever buddy have ya heard….. etc.) ~t

Response:

Can someone tell me what all this means about fights and makeup and who is dating who?

::gasp:: (i’m gonna gotta consult chuck woolery on that’n) Who is Laurie?

my good friend that can’t post right now even though that was her intention, seems i somehow unwittingly arranged for her ta go ta jail.. she took me to tha airport, i left my make-up bag’n her car, my meds were in it, traffic stop, and BAM ! she just got out taday. she totally rocks, y’all’ll enjoy her immensely. (after she get’s tha lice out’ah her system) But Bob those words of wisdom is really good.

"LET IT BE" ^ words of wisdom I might use some in future speechs.

::givin them words’ah proper burial:: ~tanya

Response:

(Not

Anxiety and What to do for Anxiety

admin — Sun, 04 Dec 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Thank you, for such a great parallel illustration of the ridiculousness of all that. G

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – communication, so pecked out: "Ok Gary for once, I might actually look into a suggestion but why don’t you highlite some points" Highlight points? No. Actually, hell no. Hey, why can’t ya just use one of those yellow Sanford markers and highlight the main points in your posts? Oh, they’re ALL main parts? I see, said the blind man, to the deaf dog….. — Elliott remove yourshoes to email http://www.unitedmedia.com/creators/ballardst/

Response:

"Ok Gary for once, I might actually look into a suggestion but why don’t you highlite some points" Steve, that reads like you are doing me a favor by checking out something I took the time to a) make you aware of b) summarize its relevance to your situation c) offered to PAY for. Do you want me to come to Philadelphia (out of the question, unless an airplane stop…) and put it into the tape player too? Make you some coffee? Lord have mercy. Item "c" is off the table, btw. If it’s not worth 11 bucks to you, to gain some enlightenment, why should it be worth it to me? The only person who cares (ostensibly) about whether you get better or not, ultimately, is YOU. I will be fine either way. Highlight points? No. Actually, hell no. Good day. G

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cognitive has nothing to do with co-dependency. An excellent book for children of "low-functionning families" (another term for dysfunctional family) is Finding Balance: 12 Steps to Interdependence and Joyful Living by Terry Kellogg and Marvel Harrison. Skip the introductory first couple chapters, and get right to the discussions about codependence, the "codependent polar bear" is an excellent look at the results of the damage from non-affirming parents shows itself in adult behavior. That book would be preferable to have in paperback, so you can refer to it easily. Ok Gary for once, I might actually look into a suggestion but why don’t you highlite some points… The item I wanted to send was "Feel the Fear and do it Anyway" audio abridged edition. An absolutely excellent discussion of the existential aspects of fear/anxiety/worry and has some just really profound insight into the (often very easy) ways to combat this problem in everyday life. Gary this is why we should be here. One ,good that you are recommending things. But lets assume concentration in reading a book on these things , comes after why the book is worth reading. Care to touch on these issues. Codependency comes about when people who act out whether because they never had a good inner dialgue or got reaffirmation depends on others for their reaffirmation. or their sense on who they are. The real question is , since we all get a sense of self based on many things, one of which might be how others perceive us, what exactly can we pinpoint about condependents that makes this process over the edge? The answer is Gary, their inability to perceive often enough past themselves…Its almost like they have to focus on wrong behaviour to feel a sense of themselves instead of recreating healthier life. Your childhood may have sucked. Both people I know from there actually, BOTH of them had scary families. I had a moderately scary family, but managed to make it out past that little town. Families who appeared functional tended not to be, in terms of results anyway. I entered therapy in 1990,and still go, in fact have an appointment this morning. I still learn things and enjoy going. Ok This may shed some light on a recurring theme – I was quite unhappy with many aspects of my last employment situation, was telling the shrink about it all, book chapter and verse, right down to the last detail. He finally said, "Well Gary, it looks like what you’re going to have to do is (a) decide what exactly it is that you’re trying to accomplish there, and (b) if that is possible to do, and if so, how? His questions hit rather hard, because I quickly realized that he was speaking of a governmental structure that was not about to change for me, and what I wanted (even though it was legitimate as legitimate could be) was not something that I could reasonably expect to accomplish. Sort of like banging one’s head into a brick wall. I watch you do this same sort of thing often, by insisting that people "talk about the things that make them anxious"..’*There are probably as many reasons people don’t talk about .it as there are different posters on the group* and those reasons are? denial? maybe they have their reasons? G Oh sure but I guess if you really want to come down to it. and you really want to discuss important issues, one might be more concerned with these reasons. I can only watch a soap opera for so long. . Talking about he said she said, is interesting for so long.Unfortunately my question to myself is how long can I be poisoned without doing anything about it? "steve" G Item two in your discussion: There are some presentation difficulties that make it hard to work with. Initially, it’s about "in relationships", then segue straight into "in love, try to see the illogical codependence". Couple quick points: First Gary this came off the top of my head. I a) In a situation where there is ACTUAL love, there will not BE co-dependence. They are mutually exclusive. Codependence involves lack of relationship with the self. Maybe, you could be right? I am not sure of literal meaning gary but maybe I was talking literally , as in being dependent on each other in healthy way as in love . in psychological terms it means a dysfucntional relationship with almost everything , yourself , others etc. I The following taken off a website: Actually the term "Codependence" is an inaccurate and somewhat misleading term for the phenomenon it has come to describe. A more accurate term would be something like outer-dependence, or external dependence."The point that I am making is that our understanding of Codependence has evolved to realizing that this is not just about some dysfunctional families, our very role models, our prototypes, are dysfunctional. Our traditional cultural concepts of what a man is, of what a woman is, are twisted, distorted, almost comically bloated stereotypes of what masculine and feminine really are." Gary the word codependent is quite confusing to me and many others, or can be. This does not mean cognitive is better though. I guess my definition in negative sense is Codependent in the negative sense generally speaking is pretty much loss of self in forfeiture to another..In a negative way, its bad behaviour that is substaniated by another . Its like dsyfunction, and its like almost bound to fail. To others it looks great maybe but like in my family and maybe others it can’t be too enriching. or too sustaining. because its based on loss of self and doing what is right. or healthy and in addition its fortified over and over by another allowing it to continue so its especially damaging. Kids from this kind of family are just as likely to see the wrong connections. I am defining this all to myself too .. Without an actual and REAL relationship with one’s "self", one cannot possibly have an actual and real relationship with anyone else, much less the much higher evolved level of relationship called "love". Well I meant if we are dependent on the right things from one anothers and its given back thats what I mean by healthy relationships or healthy socieites or love. It might not be codependent in the theraputic setting but thats what I meant. of course one must be in touch with one self to give and receive in relationship. .. b) steve

Response:

Precisely the reason for my suggestion on the audio-discussion. It’s really about personal empowerment. "Unfortunately my question to myself is how long can I be poisoned without doing anything about it?" We’ve all been asking this question Steve. I’m trying to cause the answer to be something besides "till they plant me in the ground". www.amazon.com Audio Book: Title = "Feel the Fear and Do it Anyway" Author – Dr. Susan Jeffers Get the "ABRIDGED version" – do not get the one with four audio tapes. Just get the one that contains ONE tape – it is concise, and gets to the point without being too brief. It’s about 11 bucks. The price of a couple Totinos pies, I’m guessin’. G

Response:

Cognitive has nothing to do with co-dependency. An excellent book for children of "low-functionning families" (another term for dysfunctional family) is Finding Balance: 12 Steps to Interdependence and Joyful Living by Terry Kellogg and Marvel Harrison. Skip the introductory first couple chapters, and get right to the discussions about codependence, the "codependent polar bear" is an excellent look at the results of the damage from non-affirming parents shows itself in adult behavior. That book would be preferable to have in paperback, so you can refer to it easily. The item I wanted to send was "Feel the Fear and do it Anyway" audio abridged edition. An absolutely excellent discussion of the existential aspects of fear/anxiety/worry and has some just really profound insight into the (often very easy) ways to combat this problem in everyday life. Your childhood may have sucked. Both people I know from there actually, BOTH of them had scary families. I had a moderately scary family, but managed to make it out past that little town. Families who appeared functional tended not to be, in terms of results anyway. I entered therapy in 1990,and still go, in fact have an appointment this morning. I still learn things and enjoy going. This may shed some light on a recurring theme – I was quite unhappy with many aspects of my last employment situation, was telling the shrink about it all, book chapter and verse, right down to the last detail. He finally said, "Well Gary, it looks like what you’re going to have to do is (a) decide what exactly it is that you’re trying to accomplish there, and (b) if that is possible to do, and if so, how? His questions hit rather hard, because I quickly realized that he was speaking of a governmental structure that was not about to change for me, and what I wanted (even though it was legitimate as legitimate could be) was not something that I could reasonably expect to accomplish. Sort of like banging one’s head into a brick wall. I watch you do this same sort of thing often, by insisting that people "talk about the things that make them anxious"..’*There are probably as many reasons people don’t talk about .it as there are different posters on the group* maybe they have their reasons? G

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "steve" G Item two in your discussion: There are some presentation difficulties that make it hard to work with. Initially, it’s about "in relationships", then segue straight into "in love, try to see the illogical codependence". Couple quick points: First Gary this came off the top of my head. I a) In a situation where there is ACTUAL love, there will not BE co-dependence. They are mutually exclusive. Codependence involves lack of relationship with the self. Maybe, you could be right? I am not sure of literal meaning gary but maybe I was talking literally , as in being dependent on each other in healthy way as in love . in psychological terms it means a dysfucntional relationship with almost everything , yourself , others etc. I The following taken off a website: Actually the term "Codependence" is an inaccurate and somewhat misleading term for the phenomenon it has come to describe. A more accurate term would be something like outer-dependence, or external dependence."The point that I am making is that our understanding of Codependence has evolved to realizing that this is not just about some dysfunctional families, our very role models, our prototypes, are dysfunctional. Our traditional cultural concepts of what a man is, of what a woman is, are twisted, distorted, almost comically bloated stereotypes of what masculine and feminine really are." Gary the word codependent is quite confusing to me and many others, or can be. This does not mean cognitive is better though. I guess my definition in negative sense is Codependent in the negative sense generally speaking is pretty much loss of self in forfeiture to another..In a negative way, its bad behaviour that is substaniated by another . Its like dsyfunction, and its like almost bound to fail. To others it looks great maybe but like in my family and maybe others it can’t be too enriching. or too sustaining. because its based on loss of self and doing what is right. or healthy and in addition its fortified over and over by another allowing it to continue so its especially damaging. Kids from this kind of family are just as likely to see the wrong connections. I am defining this all to myself too .. Without an actual and REAL relationship with one’s "self", one cannot possibly have an actual and real relationship with anyone else, much less the much higher evolved level of relationship called "love". Well I meant if we are dependent on the right things from one anothers and its given back thats what I mean by healthy relationships or healthy socieites or love. It might not be codependent in the theraputic setting but thats what I meant. of course one must be in touch with one self to give and receive in relationship. .. b) steve

Response:

Ok Gary for once, I might actually look into a suggestion but why don’t you highlite some points… The item I wanted to send was "Feel the Fear and do it Anyway" audio abridged edition. An absolutely excellent discussion of the existential aspects of fear/anxiety/worry and has some just really profound insight into the (often very easy) ways to combat this problem in everyday life.

Gary this is why we should be here. One ,good that you are recommending things. But lets assume concentration in reading a book on these things , comes after why the book is worth reading. Care to touch on these issues. Codependency comes about when people who act out whether because they never had a good inner dialgue or got reaffirmation depends on others for their reaffirmation. or their sense on who they are. The real question is , since we all get a sense of self based on many things, one of which might be how others perceive us, what exactly can we pinpoint about condependents that makes this process over the edge? The answer is Gary, their inability to perceive often enough past themselves…Its almost like they have to focus on wrong behaviour to feel a sense of themselves instead of recreating healthier life. Your childhood may have sucked. Both people I know from there actually, BOTH of them had scary families. I had a moderately scary family, but managed to make it out past that little town. Families who appeared functional tended not to be, in terms of results anyway. I entered therapy in 1990,and still go, in fact have an appointment this morning. I still learn things and enjoy going.

Ok This may shed some light on a recurring theme – I was quite unhappy with many aspects of my last employment situation, was telling the shrink about it all, book chapter and verse, right down to the last detail. He finally said, "Well Gary, it looks like what you’re going to have to do is (a) decide what exactly it is that you’re trying to accomplish there, and (b) if that is possible to do, and if so, how? His questions hit rather hard, because I quickly realized that he was speaking of a governmental structure that was not about to change for me, and what I wanted (even though it was legitimate as legitimate could be) was not something that I could reasonably expect to accomplish. Sort of like banging one’s head into a brick wall. I watch you do this same sort of thing often, by insisting that people "talk about the things that make them anxious"..’*There are probably as many reasons people don’t talk about .it as there are different posters on the group*

and those reasons are? denial? maybe they have their reasons? G

Oh sure but I guess if you really want to come down to it. and you really want to discuss important issues, one might be more concerned with these reasons. I can only watch a soap opera for so long. . Talking about he said she said, is interesting for so long.Unfortunately my question to myself is how long can I be poisoned without doing anything about it? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "steve" G Item two in your discussion: There are some presentation difficulties that make it hard to work with. Initially, it’s about "in relationships", then segue straight into "in love, try to see the illogical codependence". Couple quick points: First Gary this came off the top of my head. I a) In a situation where there is ACTUAL love, there will not BE co-dependence. They are mutually exclusive. Codependence involves lack of relationship with the self. Maybe, you could be right? I am not sure of literal meaning gary but maybe I was talking literally , as in being dependent on each other in healthy way as in love . in psychological terms it means a dysfucntional relationship with almost everything , yourself , others etc. I The following taken off a website: Actually the term "Codependence" is an inaccurate and somewhat misleading term for the phenomenon it has come to describe. A more accurate term would be something like outer-dependence, or external dependence."The point that I am making is that our understanding of Codependence has evolved to realizing that this is not just about some dysfunctional families, our very role models, our prototypes, are dysfunctional. Our traditional cultural concepts of what a man is, of what a woman is, are twisted, distorted, almost comically bloated stereotypes of what masculine and feminine really are." Gary the word codependent is quite confusing to me and many others, or can be. This does not mean cognitive is better though. I guess my definition in negative sense is Codependent in the negative sense generally speaking is pretty much loss of self in forfeiture to another..In a negative way, its bad behaviour that is substaniated by another . Its like dsyfunction, and its like almost bound to fail. To others it looks great maybe but like in my family and maybe others it can’t be too enriching. or too sustaining. because its based on loss of self and doing what is right. or healthy and in addition its fortified over and over by another allowing it to continue so its especially damaging. Kids from this kind of family are just as likely to see the wrong connections. I am defining this all to myself too .. Without an actual and REAL relationship with one’s "self", one cannot possibly have an actual and real relationship with anyone else, much less the much higher evolved level of relationship called "love". Well I meant if we are dependent on the right things from one anothers and its given back thats what I mean by healthy relationships or healthy socieites or love. It might not be codependent in the theraputic setting but thats what I meant. of course one must be in touch with one self to give and receive in relationship. .. b) steve

Response:

"steve" G Item two in your discussion: There are some presentation difficulties that make it hard to work with. Initially, it’s about "in relationships", then segue straight into "in love, try to see the illogical codependence". Couple quick points: First Gary this came off the top of my head. I a) In a situation where there is ACTUAL love, there will not BE co-dependence. They are mutually exclusive. Codependence involves lack of relationship with the self.

Maybe, you could be right? I am not sure of literal meaning gary but maybe I was talking literally , as in being dependent on each other in healthy way as in love . in psychological terms it means a dysfucntional relationship with almost everything , yourself , others etc. I The following taken off a website: Actually the term "Codependence" is an inaccurate and somewhat misleading term for the phenomenon it has come to describe. A more accurate term would be something like outer-dependence, or external dependence."The point that I am making is that our understanding of Codependence has evolved to realizing that this is not just about some dysfunctional families, our very role models, our prototypes, are dysfunctional. Our traditional cultural concepts of what a man is, of what a woman is, are twisted, distorted, almost comically bloated stereotypes of what masculine and feminine really are." Gary the word codependent is quite confusing to me and many others, or can be. This does not mean cognitive is better though. I guess my definition in negative sense is Codependent in the negative sense generally speaking is pretty much loss of self in forfeiture to another..In a negative way, its bad behaviour that is substaniated by another . Its like dsyfunction, and its like almost bound to fail. To others it looks great maybe but like in my family and maybe others it can’t be too enriching. or too sustaining. because its based on loss of self and doing what is right. or healthy and in addition its fortified over and over by another allowing it to continue so its especially damaging. Kids from this kind of family are just as likely to see the wrong connections. I am defining this all to myself too .. Without an actual and REAL relationship with one’s "self", one cannot possibly have an actual and real relationship with anyone else, much less the much higher evolved level of relationship called "love".

Well I meant if we are dependent on the right things from one anothers and its given back thats what I mean by healthy relationships or healthy socieites or love. It might not be codependent in the theraputic setting but thats what I meant. of course one must be in touch with one self to give and receive in relationship. .. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – b) steve

Response:

assuming everyone is equal, I am eternally grateful .ok? Item number one in your discussion was actually not too bad. Insecure kids who were raised by insecure, illogical adults (who probably had children in order to try to make their lives "normal" or "better" by some prevalent definition at the time –

wait where did I say that? Most times people have kids because they want sex, planned kids probably comes third . I am willing to bet most kids get fked because their parents didn’t really want them or once they had them were not prepared to know what to do. only to find that the kids actually made life more complicated (who would have guessed??) and then acted out their annoyance/aggravation (even if only occasionally) –

I am sure all parents gets annoyed at sometime but we are not talking about that. In fact like I alluded to many times, the times I was in hospitals the parents were often timescrazier then the kids but at least they came to see their kids so we can assume about the ones that didn’t. or were never there. this does create a recipe for a child with incomplete maturation in some way or another. It may be a "feeling of being secure" that is lacking or it may be a "feeling of competence", or an "ability to trust others, trust the world, trust themselves, etc" or worst, I think, they can lack a feeling of "being connected to others". The results of that are disastrous.

Bingo and how many of these kids associate those things to their insecurity. Can I guess? SM A LL the vast majority will blame society or illogical conclusions or will hyper angry or will end up incarcerated or using drugs instead which gets me to the topic of cognitve therapy. Of all the people I know here , most never discuss these things so I take them for their word when they only concenterate mostly on the here and now. Unfortuantely like I tried to state, this leaves allot of things unconnected. Not all kids with anxiety or depression have very dysfucntional parents, but you should know if you have been in mental wards how soo much of this is truly interconnected. Co-dependency is a huge issue, and good for you to explore with willing others.

( ok so you want this (me) to die?) which shows Gary your a bit too reactive , as I never wanted too many people to die. Maybe child killers , not maybe definitely and people who committ atrocities but anyone here na. I just think these discussions are good at exposing people for who they really are , good or bad. I might be wrong sometimes but I am right often too but does it really really matter what I really think of you or your faults Na not really, Its interesting but thats it. It is a little bit more expansive than the definition implied here. Codependency is not so much about one’s relationship with any particular psycho individual (as is SO often discussed, everywhere) – but is more about an absence of relationship with the self.

Well Gary thats interesting and probably true but isn’t that the same thing. You put so much trust in someone you leave the part that introspects. One might be obsessed with health of a paricular part of body and husband and wife reassure that person even if its way past the line of normalcy. or smokes or takes drugs. .I think all these things are connected. The typical co-dependent individual exhibits a sort of polarity in their behavior…. One day they will be excessively concerned about pleasing others, the next day they will exhibit utter indifference with equal skill and internal discomfort. They don’t like this absence of a clear definition, but are never quite sure what to do about it.

I never heard this before. I really don’t know the exact sublte specifications or contradictions but the obvious stereotypes I tend to id. ( lurie and her husband come to mind but you were not here for a year or two to know that, and my mom and my dad) I do know they seem lost. But I am lost in my own life too. Who really knows exactly what is happening exactly. Whats well? Whats secure? Its all degrees …..at the end of day.. One day they will be extremely concerned with their well-being, spend 50 dollars on health food items, get a water purifier, etc. and the next day they will not even change clothes or brush their own teeth, generally illustrating a complete lack of willingness to care for the self. Again, polarity.

Gary again this is new to me . I am not saying its not true though. I hope your not confusing manic behavior or obsessions or lack of trust with codependency? I tend to want to obsess and over react and the next day not care one bit if I don’t fit in. But I don’t consider myself codependent. I might have a slightly borderline personality but its mostly based on anxiety.The real question is and I don’t want to get too complex , if one comes from codependent family and one cannot find anyone to be codependent with , does one feel alone or might want to drop out of life? All very interesting to think about. The key things are degrees and can one modify. or id this type of behviour or dependency. After all is said and done even successful relationships are dependent on somekind of codependency. So it all comes back to how secure and settled (not anxious) we can become if you come from this kind of environment… I got to go will come back to this later. bye. There is an – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – extensive list of these various polar opposites that abused kids exhibit, which I’d be glad to publish if you’d like. It might be quite illuminating, in fact I feel certain of that. As a matter totally aside, interest in protecting the physical and psychological safety of others, or simply telling truths with some diplomacy or tact – these things do not in and of themselves make one a "people pleaser". Consider also, what is the opposite of that? A "people displeaser"? How far is THAT going to take anyone? I submit that if one is going to err one way or the other, and the outcome counts (like at a job, where you make your money, or in interactions with friends) a little diplomacy never hurt anything. Sometimes saying one harmful thing can cause irreparable harm forever, in a relationship. I am sure that after I cussed you out quite completely the other day, you no longer feel exactly the same way, when considering me. This is true of all people. I did that because a) I felt like it b) There were no "stakes" involved, e.g. – you are not my employer, or close friend, so if you were verbally impaled and got angry as a result, the consequences are zero, for me. That having been said, I am not such an evil person that I cannot stand up and say that I should not have done that. I should NOT have done that. I apologize, it was not the right thing to do. That does not mean that I like you, I don’t. You do not like me either. That is ok. If I sat next to you on an airplane, I’d still be courteous, regardless. c) I failed to "self-modulate" my behavior, despite full capability of doing so. It is sort of like bitching about "no good parking spaces, and why do they have SO many handicapped spaces?" instead of saying "I’m just glad that i CAN walk from point A to point B and that I have a car at all". The equivalent here would have been (a) to do exactly what I did, and curse you out. vs. (b) saying "Gary, you have perfectly decent ability to filter through all of this crap, and you do not have to let your anger "make" you do or say anything, so just turn off the computer, and go have some good coffee, or some good sex with Jennifer." Obviously I "should" have chosen option B, but hindsight is always crystal clear, isn’t it? All humans fall short sometimes. You "could", by the way, choose to do this same thing, when considering whether or not to take out your anger on Elliott, etc.. You may dislike him, he may dislike you, but you have TOTAL choice over what to DO or SAY, always, always. What if the ONE person on earth who means THE MOST to you was killed by a fascist dictator? Do you think it might cause you some pain to be reminded of it? (I think it would) So why not just "let it all go" – forgive others. It is a very powerful act, to do so. Don’t believe me? Try it. If you want, I will (bona fide offer, absolutely) buy you an audio presentation that I think would change your life dramatically for the better. Establish an account with amazon.com, write a post called "Steve: Amazon Account" and tell the name of the account, so all who want to can contribute (that’s all they can do with it, by the way, nothing else) to your library (books, video, music) to your world of media. Amazon will even ship the item right to your mailbox, which you don’t have to disclose in the account – only Amazon knows that. The only thing I would ask in return, is that you actually listen to the audio presentation, when you have 45 minutes that are unlikely to be interrupted. I may cuss, be brutal at times, even hateful, but I also know how to assist. item 3 – no question item 4 – concur item 5 – "learn to deal with it" ? What does that mean? "Uh,sir, you’ve got schizophrenia, you’ll need to learn to deal with that…." I don’t think going to the past is something patients should spend tons of time

Response:

If you want, I will (bona fide offer, absolutely) buy you an audio presentation that I think would change your life dramatically for the better. Establish an account with amazon.com, write a post called "Steve: Amazon Account" and tell the name of the account, so all who want to can contribute (that’s all they can do with it, by the way, nothing else) to your library (books, video, music) to your world of media. Amazon will even ship the item right to your mailbox, which you don’t have to disclose in the account – only Amazon knows that. The only thing I would ask in return, is that you actually listen to the audio presentation, when you have 45 minutes that are unlikely to be interrupted. I may cuss, be brutal at times, even hateful, but I also know how to assist.

Gary thats nice of you. You have a nice side too and your intelligent right? Two for three is not bad.. Ok I need around ten thousand dollars though and a room with a view if you really want to help me. …in say San Francisco or I will accept the coast of California… Seriously Gary , just tell me what the name of the cassette is called and seriously think about what I said to you about yourself. Its nice you want to help people and probably can in some ways but maybe you think you can do better for yourself also . ?. item 3 – no question item 4 – concur item 5 – "learn to deal with it" ? What does that mean? "Uh,sir, you’ve got schizophrenia, you’ll need to learn to deal with that…."

Its funny you mentioned that,lol but thats for another day. yes learning to deal with why one is anxious and do something other then then ask for prescription advice. . .. I don’t think going to the past is something patients should spend tons of time with. go there, learn whatever you can take froom it, and "move on". I prefer the word "advocate" over "fight" – fighting is consumptive, energy depleting, and ultimately anxiety provoking for many people.

Well do wonders ever cease? I know this from your answers and answers from others here. Your answer to me about depersonalization etc, was starting to make sense and so what are you saying, if it starts to not make sense but utlitmately its too complex for the moment, its useless or better to let go? I cordially disagree . ( probably because I am prejudiced) No not everyone had what happen to them like I did , but many people have it just as bad in different degrees of affects. item 6 – worth knowing – hmm, based on what? Your value systems?

truth based on what you know. How many times do we want to know someone because they look ok or because they have what we want or even because they resonate as being familiar? . but ultimately we don’t particularity trust or like whats inside. Its like you can choose fast sex or your can choose to get to know someone for right reasons. You can choose to befriend someone because they obviously want to do the right things and want to go over things. you have learned to evolve….and not just rely on perceptions. if that makes sense. ok Mine? Whose? Much of the content in item seven is biased toward your own value systems…. e.g. "the right things" – one person’s "right" is another’s "wrong" wish list. I already know what I want to send, but it’s a great place to send family and friends re. gift-giving occasions. Peace G

Geees your not done yet? lol about the tape just tell me whats on it. where to get it? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Item two in your discussion: There are some presentation difficulties that make it hard to work with. Initially, it’s about "in relationships", then segue straight into "in love, try to see the illogical codependence". Couple quick points: a) In a situation where there is ACTUAL love, there will not BE co-dependence. They are mutually exclusive. Codependence involves lack of relationship with the self. Without an actual and REAL relationship with one’s "self", one cannot possibly have an actual and real relationship with anyone else, much less the much higher evolved level of relationship called "love". b)

Response:

"assuming everyone is equal, I am eternally grateful" On a person’s highest level self, they know that everyone is equal. " I never heard this before." That’s what I’m here for, to broaden your horizons. G

Response:

No,I’m not making any such confusion. Codependency,as i pointed out earlier, is not so much about relationship definitions with others, but is far more about a true lack of necessary relationship with the self.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Steve, I hate to break my own damn rules, but I think I just will anyway. As was said, it’s anarchy here, I can do what I want. Apparently on my friend’s computer, I can still see you. So fine, for today, Steve will exist in my world for a couple minutes. I do hate what you said, but I will suspend judgment for a couple of minutes, and be polite – if for no other reason than simply to show that I can. assuming everyone is equal, I am eternally grateful .ok? Item number one in your discussion was actually not too bad. Insecure kids who were raised by insecure, illogical adults (who probably had children in order to try to make their lives "normal" or "better" by some prevalent definition at the time – wait where did I say that? Most times people have kids because they want sex, planned kids probably comes third . I am willing to bet most kids get fked because their parents didn’t really want them or once they had them were not prepared to know what to do. only to find that the kids actually made life more complicated (who would have guessed??) and then acted out their annoyance/aggravation (even if only occasionally) – I am sure all parents gets annoyed at sometime but we are not talking about that. In fact like I alluded to many times, the times I was in hospitals the parents were often timescrazier then the kids but at least they came to see their kids so we can assume about the ones that didn’t. or were never there. this does create a recipe for a child with incomplete maturation in some way or another. It may be a "feeling of being secure" that is lacking or it may be a "feeling of competence", or an "ability to trust others, trust the world, trust themselves, etc" or worst, I think, they can lack a feeling of "being connected to others". The results of that are disastrous.

well , can be if they don’t how to turn it around. Not only that, I think some parents want to fk their kids over so they seem better.The point is I have tried to focus on major issues here like how to turn those things around and not generalalities and pills , and instead I get personal inuendos. .You definitely make some sense sometimes but I feel in addition you take to personal attacks if they or I don’t argue exactly like you want .2. Believe it or not , I feel I am more positive then I use to b,e but can one suppose my distrust of govt is because of insecurity growing up? From distrust of not knowing they self or expectations of crazythings, tthat happened in my family (and let me tell you there were crazy and bad things). , can they automatically be then transferred to illogical conspiracies about what the govt is doing to me? ? The answer to that is to you maybe yes but to me my rationalizations are justified. I am unlike someone from dysfunctional family , who blames an entire people , or entire world for their misjustice and acts out or ends up on the street or in jail or on dope. I may have quirks but my reaction and anxiety to a govt that allows air to reach a certain saturation point of pollution that causes me to have hard time breathing only for that reason , is based on reality and specifics. I don’t then decide to take drugs or shoot the President, I do protest because for now I actually can’t redo a part of my life that I think I can have an effect on positively. Anyway without going over that again.. Perhaps I more then anyone might understand I know the differences. . I try to use logic and facts in making my case. I don’t understand some things sometimes but also I can’t change things even if I am aware of them. This is a first for me. So I get aggravated. I then see other things I don’t understand like how the US govt can’t beat back an enemy that has no air force or sophisticated communication systems. So I then might get very suspicious about what real control I have over my own situation. Maybe thats mistrust from childhood actually has made me keenly aware of real danger too. Mistrust in childhood doesn’t automatically assume one can’t decipher right from wrong. So I react and thus I still get anxious. Psychologically In my world in order to get to a certain point I had to redo things that made sense or saw truth. If I think a govt or leaders are killing me I am not about to sit still accepting it. If I think the press doesn’t ask why only ( virtually) the super rich get elected to office then excuse me if i think things are controlled. Anyway I could live with all that if I didn’t think theair was killing me faster then I think it should . There is an extensive list of these various polar opposites that abused kids exhibit, which I’d be glad to publish if you’d like. It might be quite illuminating, in fact I feel certain of that.

Well Gary then maybe you have a true vision of this. I am pretty lost with this polarity issue.Go ahead and explain this further cause I dont; understand all of it. I sense you have a personal reason for knowing about this? Maybe not.Psychologically my attention span is pretty narrow . My mom killer herself and allot of suffering and not only did I mistrust I also probably blamed myself. So the mind is a very very complex thing and I don’t know the reasons why codependents do what they do. I sense its probably because of depersonalization., lack of love? lack of true sense of being accepted for who they really are or like I said before because their personality developed from reacting to someone elses concerns instead of people worried about theres… ? I sometimes thnk my mom made no sense. Icould not connect. Shelike Lauri would not come clean why she was soo screwed up. I think she was successful in being saved by a father who loved saving people. and this seems logical to the world and this is whats insidiously bad about codependency. It actually doesnt seem so bad. ..? It worked, not particularily good or healthy but it works. If I can find someone to save like my first girlf friend, it might be ok and familiar but its not what I want anymore… its not a healthy two way relationship. What what have been better is for people like mom and other codependents to find themselves , to be who they should have been .if that makes sense. .My mom obviously didn’t have to work or do anything different but feel depressed . At the same time she did suffere from a medical condition that the medical industry could not treat ..postpartum soo you see how all these things are connected and why soo many people don’t want to go back..It could make you more loopy. In my case I try to focus on certain main points. I think I can depersonalize or dont’ want to take control of situations. I want no responsibility in bettering the situation because I think someone will come along and screw it up anyway. . and for this thought I must change. on some level maybe this is why cognitive stuff may work. I guess if you dont think about all this it wont get in the way. But in reality I think you got to deal with it. . So maybe people depersonalize because its the easiest thing to reduce stress. I remember when I was a litttle I depersonalized. I am not sure if this has anything to do with condependency though.Depersonalzationis a place where one goes to hope your brain freezes and comes back to life when all the pain is over.So my wish about wanting to go back and redo things like Bradshaw says is real and good. . Maybe there are no answers sometimes just variations of different answers. As a matter totally aside, interest in protecting the physical and psychological safety of others, or simply telling truths with some diplomacy or tact – these things do not in and of themselves make one a "people pleaser". Consider also, what is the opposite of that? A "people displeaser"?

I am talking when your a little kid and you have needs. Instead your ignored or yelled at for not always knowing when mom is depressed or to say the right things. Do it enough times and your being is broken, You might depersonalize or you might feel inadequate or you might learn to say what people want you to say…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How far is THAT going to take anyone? I submit that if one is going to err one way or the other, and the outcome counts (like at a job, where you make your money, or in interactions with friends) a little diplomacy never hurt anything. Sometimes saying one harmful thing can cause irreparable harm forever, in a relationship. I am sure that after I cussed you out quite completely the other day, you no longer feel exactly the same way, when considering me. This is true of all people. I did that because a) I felt like it b) There were no "stakes" involved, e.g. – you are not my employer, or close friend, so if you were verbally impaled and got angry as a result, the consequences are zero, for me. That having been said, I am not such an evil person that I cannot stand up and say that I should not have done that. I should NOT have done that. I apologize, it was not the right thing to do. That does not mean that I like you, I don’t. You do not like me either. That is ok. If I sat next to you on an airplane, I’d still be courteous, regardless. c) I failed to "self-modulate" my behavior, despite full capability of doing so. It is sort of like bitching about "no good parking spaces, and why do they have SO many handicapped spaces?" instead of saying "I’m just glad that i CAN walk from point A to point B and that I have a car at all". The equivalent here would have been (a) to do exactly what I did, and curse you out. vs. (b) saying

Response:

Steve, I hate to break my own damn rules, but I think I just will anyway. As was said, it’s anarchy here, I can do what I want. Apparently on my friend’s computer, I can still see you. So fine, for today, Steve will exist in my world for a couple minutes. I do hate what you said, but I will suspend judgment for a couple of minutes, and be polite – if for no other reason than simply to show that I can. Item number one in your discussion was actually not too bad. Insecure kids who were raised by insecure, illogical adults (who probably had children in order to try to make their lives "normal" or "better" by some prevalent definition at the time – only to find that the kids actually made life more complicated (who would have guessed??) and then acted out their annoyance/aggravation (even if only occasionally) – this does create a recipe for a child with incomplete maturation in some way or another. It may be a "feeling of being secure" that is lacking or it may be a "feeling of competence", or an "ability to trust others, trust the world, trust themselves, etc" or worst, I think, they can lack a feeling of "being connected to others". The results of that are disastrous. Co-dependency is a huge issue, and good for you to explore with willing others. It is a little bit more expansive than the definition implied here. Codependency is not so much about one’s relationship with any particular psycho individual (as is SO often discussed, everywhere) – but is more about an absence of relationship with the self. The typical co-dependent individual exhibits a sort of polarity in their behavior…. One day they will be excessively concerned about pleasing others, the next day they will exhibit utter indifference with equal skill and internal discomfort. They don’t like this absence of a clear definition, but are never quite sure what to do about it. One day they will be extremely concerned with their well-being, spend 50 dollars on health food items, get a water purifier, etc. and the next day they will not even change clothes or brush their own teeth, generally illustrating a complete lack of willingness to care for the self. Again, polarity. There is an extensive list of these various polar opposites that abused kids exhibit, which I’d be glad to publish if you’d like. It might be quite illuminating, in fact I feel certain of that. As a matter totally aside, interest in protecting the physical and psychological safety of others, or simply telling truths with some diplomacy or tact – these things do not in and of themselves make one a "people pleaser". Consider also, what is the opposite of that? A "people displeaser"? How far is THAT going to take anyone? I submit that if one is going to err one way or the other, and the outcome counts (like at a job, where you make your money, or in interactions with friends) a little diplomacy never hurt anything. Sometimes saying one harmful thing can cause irreparable harm forever, in a relationship. I am sure that after I cussed you out quite completely the other day, you no longer feel exactly the same way, when considering me. This is true of all people. I did that because a) I felt like it b) There were no "stakes" involved, e.g. – you are not my employer, or close friend, so if you were verbally impaled and got angry as a result, the consequences are zero, for me. That having been said, I am not such an evil person that I cannot stand up and say that I should not have done that. I should NOT have done that. I apologize, it was not the right thing to do. That does not mean that I like you, I don’t. You do not like me either. That is ok. If I sat next to you on an airplane, I’d still be courteous, regardless. c) I failed to "self-modulate" my behavior, despite full capability of doing so. It is sort of like bitching about "no good parking spaces, and why do they have SO many handicapped spaces?" instead of saying "I’m just glad that i CAN walk from point A to point B and that I have a car at all". The equivalent here would have been (a) to do exactly what I did, and curse you out. vs. (b) saying "Gary, you have perfectly decent ability to filter through all of this crap, and you do not have to let your anger "make" you do or say anything, so just turn off the computer, and go have some good coffee, or some good sex with Jennifer." Obviously I "should" have chosen option B, but hindsight is always crystal clear, isn’t it? All humans fall short sometimes. You "could", by the way, choose to do this same thing, when considering whether or not to take out your anger on Elliott, etc.. You may dislike him, he may dislike you, but you have TOTAL choice over what to DO or SAY, always, always. What if the ONE person on earth who means THE MOST to you was killed by a fascist dictator? Do you think it might cause you some pain to be reminded of it? (I think it would) So why not just "let it all go" – forgive others. It is a very powerful act, to do so. Don’t believe me? Try it. If you want, I will (bona fide offer, absolutely) buy you an audio presentation that I think would change your life dramatically for the better. Establish an account with amazon.com, write a post called "Steve: Amazon Account" and tell the name of the account, so all who want to can contribute (that’s all they can do with it, by the way, nothing else) to your library (books, video, music) to your world of media. Amazon will even ship the item right to your mailbox, which you don’t have to disclose in the account – only Amazon knows that. The only thing I would ask in return, is that you actually listen to the audio presentation, when you have 45 minutes that are unlikely to be interrupted. I may cuss, be brutal at times, even hateful, but I also know how to assist. item 3 – no question item 4 – concur item 5 – "learn to deal with it" ? What does that mean? "Uh,sir, you’ve got schizophrenia, you’ll need to learn to deal with that…." I don’t think going to the past is something patients should spend tons of time with. go there, learn whatever you can take froom it, and "move on". I prefer the word "advocate" over "fight" – fighting is consumptive, energy depleting, and ultimately anxiety provoking for many people. item 6 – worth knowing – hmm, based on what? Your value systems? Mine? Whose? Much of the content in item seven is biased toward your own value systems…. e.g. "the right things" – one person’s "right" is another’s "wrong" list. I already know what I want to send, but it’s a great place to send family and friends re. gift-giving occasions. Peace G Item two in your discussion: There are some presentation difficulties that make it hard to work with. Initially, it’s about "in relationships", then segue straight into "in love, try to see the illogical codependence". Couple quick points: a) In a situation where there is ACTUAL love, there will not BE co-dependence. They are mutually exclusive. Codependence involves lack of relationship with the self. Without an actual and REAL relationship with one’s "self", one cannot possibly have an actual and real relationship with anyone else, much less the much higher evolved level of relationship called "love". b)

Response:

1, Go over your family situation. Often very tense family situations provoke and promote flight or fight responses in brain. Over time , these responses become normal and expected. So in any situation , real stressful or not, a person might learn to over react or expect stressful situation and thus have too much adrenalin. The result : Anxiety or GAD. Often one has to redo self image even if and especially if good nurturing parents were not there. Here are some of my observations about dysfunctional parents. Kids often become people pleasers because as kids they learn to expect what to say based on parents illogical behaviour. You better learn to say the right and wrong things reactive to their prents needs only. Of course the kids needs or self image come last. This makes one insecure and in my eyes a people pleaser 2.In relationships, Try not to make the same mistakes as your family did so it doesn’t go on an on. In love try to see the illogical codependence. For instance, strong father role , very codependent maybe sick mom and passive. As a guy you might look for same type female , as a woman you might look for a guy who will empower your condependence or acting out. . Many many combinations including abuse, which is why often abuse runs in families. Little girls who see dominace and abuse MIGHT be attracted to this iniitially and get in same type relaitionships. Its better to see this pattern now or before it develops into adult life. 3. Don’t smoke : Learn from the tens of people and millions of studies. What they know now , its a drug. It can leave your system. Its that simple. I wish I knew this years before.The worse thing I ever did and it added to the already grief of trying to over come anxiety . 4. I would expect the same things people are told to do for a normal healthy life should also espeically be a concern for people with anxiety also. I am not sure I took up the health angle when I was 30, because I did so much damage eating junk and smoking cigs to overcompensate for anxiety. but whatever the cause its helped me stopped smoking and deal with the symptoms of anxiety : too big of a adrenalin response. and fast breathing and racing heart and too much energy at times . 5.If you have GAD learn to deal with it. you almost have to learn to monitor the excess energy with clear mind. Good therapist can help you go back in your past to help you sort it out and tell you ways to utilize proper breathing techniques.to relieve stress. Get into a good exercise program to relieve stress that way.Both things in my mind require clean air. Fight for clean air , it will even help your anxiety more then you realize 6. There are many things to eat that will help anxiety I believe and manythings not to eat also. 7. Learn to give yourself that which you missed. Love and concern for yourself and those worth knowing. Don’t love everyone because many people will use you or won’t understand functional people. Soo many people act our or in denial, find the people who have learned to do the right things

Response:

Gary lost his power base as Psyche Nurse

admin — Sat, 03 Dec 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Too bad your weren’t around in the 60s like you alluded to before. I am sure you would have shocked or given an od quite a few people.Nothing like being a little touched while pretending to know whats wrong with everyone else. I always thought these people were worse then the people who couldn’t help it Power freaks. Gossip queen Hypocrite. Go give yourself 22 drugs jerkoff and can you take Elliott and phil with you. .

Response:

Gary hasn’t lost time, he is given med advice in moderated. Maybe they can ask how do I get to wish someone to die and take meds at the same time. Wow how cute

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Too bad your weren’t around in the 60s like you alluded to before. I am sure you would have shocked or given an od quite a few people.Nothing like being a little touched while pretending to know whats wrong with everyone else. I always thought these people were worse then the people who couldn’t help it Power freaks. Gossip queen Hypocrite. Go give yourself 22 drugs jerkoff and can you take Elliott and phil with you. .

Response:

Now you are saying I’m homicidal. So we have psychotic AND homicidal AND grandiosity (power base? I never said – or thought – anything like that) You present as such a hard-case, but when somebody tells you about yourself (as Queen Latifah said … "…. I think these people need to be TOLD about themselves!" you don’t seem to cope with it very well. Typical of pretense, whose main purpose is to cover a lacking or false identity. I lean toward lacking, in your case. It’s probably not entirely your fault though. G

Response:

I give med advice, within legal statute limitations, in the grocery store. Do you talk to people in the grocery store Steve? Do they talk to you? Do you talk to yourself? lol. sorry, I just can’t help it sometimes, you make it so easy.

Response:

Heck Gary I deal with things, but to me the puzzle is not about talking about someone. i didnt come here to rant about anyone. I was talking ideas and I still do. I think for anxiety and manyissues its most important to deal with what causes it and to over come it. I over react sometimes but in the long sense of things. I dont poison people , I don’t wish harm on people, and I think I am rather adjusted ok for someone who has dealt with allot.. I certainly think I am less probable to get in trouble outside or to have a relapse then some here are but that makes no difference in the end. I will call them like I see thm. I sense you know more about others then you know about yourself ok? Or I should say you might like to think you know more about others ..

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Now you are saying I’m homicidal. So we have psychotic AND homicidal AND grandiosity (power base? I never said – or thought – anything like that) You present as such a hard-case, but when somebody tells you about yourself (as Queen Latifah said … "…. I think these people need to be TOLD about themselves!" you don’t seem to cope with it very well. Typical of pretense, whose main purpose is to cover a lacking or false identity. I lean toward lacking, in your case. It’s probably not entirely your fault though. G

Response:

Steve, the only kind of power that I have is "personal power". That is just my own term, but for those who need exacto defining, it is a combination of charisma, expertise, ability to persuade, knowledge (shared), and genuine interest in other people’s lives with the hope of helping them. I use this "power" in every aspect of my life, including this tiny one, the internet/usenet. As to a "power base" there is not one here (Elliott described it well, as anarchy – thus by definition there is no real power structure). Since there is not such a "power base", it not here to gain, or to lose. Thus I have lost nothing, except the three minutes it took to type this. G "Power is everywhere, because it comes from everywhere" – M. Foucault

Response:

Go give yourself 22 drugs jerkoff and can you take Elliott and phil with you. .

i’ll see yer 22 and raise ya 3 and a 6 pack’ah PBR. and can i go with him too????? i always WAS one’ah tha guys, yanno. ~t

Response:

Gary hasn’t lost time, he is given med advice in moderated. Maybe they can ask how do I get to wish someone to die and take meds at the same time.

OH OH OH OH ::RAISIN’ HAND:: I KNOW THISSUN… ::squirmin:: can i answer???? oh good, thanks ! take a LOTTA meds and die is tha key. Wow how cute

not if they’re YER meds they busted out on ! (not cute a’tall !) ~t

Response:

I so BADLY want to post an answer here, but it would violate ALL ethics and morality, and it would just be totally and utterly wrong, so I will not do it. Gary

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Gary hasn’t lost time, he is given med advice in moderated. Maybe they can ask how do I get to wish someone to die and take meds at the same time. OH OH OH OH ::RAISIN’ HAND:: I KNOW THISSUN… ::squirmin:: can i answer???? oh good, thanks ! take a LOTTA meds and die is tha key. Wow how cute not if they’re YER meds they busted out on ! (not cute a’tall !) ~t

Response:

I so BADLY want to post an answer here, but it would violate ALL ethics and morality, and it would just be totally and utterly wrong, so I will not do it.

tanya said: not if they’re YER meds they busted out on ! (not cute a’tall !)

i didn’t mean YER meds, i meant "yer" in general meds and since you don’t wanna violate all ethics and morality, looks like i gotta do it for ya. Gary is thinkin’….. WHO CARES HOW THA FUCK YA DO IT, IT AIN’T LIKE YER GONNA BE STICKIN’ AROUND TA HEAR JUDGEMENT CALLS FROM YER FRIENDS !!!!! and don’t take 22 meds, that’s a waste of good drugs playin tha catalyst to "good riddance ta bad rubbish" it ain’t even as if ya got FRIENDS ! ….so go ‘head’n JUMP ! …and i… i mean "HE" (Gary, of course) ain’t just quotin’ van halen. ~t-money (gary’s press agent)

Response:

Now you are saying I’m homicidal.

ya can’t have ’slaughter without ‘laughter’ So we have psychotic AND homicidal

(were you in tha psych ward wimme? i heard one of tha two way too much.. and i ain’t psychotic.) AND grandiosity (power base? I never said – or thought – anything like that) You present as such a hard-case, but when somebody tells you about yourself (as Queen Latifah said … "…. I think these people need to be TOLD about themselves!" you don’t seem to cope with it very well.

(it IS his first day, chile.) Typical of pretense, whose main purpose is to cover a lacking or false identity.

well based on THAT… it AIN’t my first day ! i do that allah time. (am i goin’ skrait ta hell?) I lean toward lacking, in your case. It’s probably not entirely your fault though.

WHEW ! it’s yers… seeeeeeeeeee? i make everything all about me, that is how insecure i am. i cover it well with extra added doses of insecurity tho, cleverly disguised (in person) as CON-FI-DENCE ! ~tanya (soooooooooo shy)

Response:

Damn, where’s that off switch of yours???

you volunteerin’ for that ever so intimate search? send yer pic. (along with yer shoe size) ~tanya

Response:

Damn, where’s that off switch of yours??? you volunteerin’ for that ever so intimate search? send yer pic. (along with yer shoe size) ~tanya No I’ll pass, WIGGER’s aren’t my type.

dead-on description

Response:

No I’ll pass, WIGGER’s aren’t my type.

As you insult me so readily and with such ease, with no knowledge of me whatsoever. amazing and quite sadly i’m sure your gaping, tartar-encrusted penis receptacle that you call a mouth is quite embarrassing to your family. they don’t wanna hear your cock-holster or see your man-pleaser flapping. i thought it was sweet when your youngest mentioned that daddy’s milk was saltier than mommy’s milk, (she claims to be your child in order to avoid wrapping her little lips around you poor excuse for man meat through the prison bars. (even though they’re sad that you’re one load mommy never got rid of). Your mother confirmed that when she took a breather each time the train of mexicans switched up… it’s easier to understand her between cocks being shoved in her mouth, but mexicans are polite. they take turns. Is that why they accept you are a puss-filled cyst in the colon of society since i’m sure your children (or those you claim… especially the one that sucks the neighbor’s dog’s of daily) are quite comfortable with knowing the last time you saw a piece of ass was when your finger slipped through the toilet paper. your parents are scum, and you are doing a most exquisite job of following in their footsteps. may i plug my laptop into your modem socket? (isn’t it amazing how small they make them these days.) oh, and please …. have your people call my people…. let’s do lunch ! i’ll settle for water. i’m a cheap date when i’m subjected to one eating the peanuts out of chocolate … lucky for you, the doggie dropped it. (why do you still sit on your daddy’s lap and why is he always sniffing his fingers?) my friends all wanted me ta ask. oh, you’re not interested in wiggers? (i’m sure your sisters are glad ta hear that. merely hearing the term they invented brings back the putrid aroma that excuded from the hood everytime they lubed yer ass. i’m sure yer NOT interested in something you wore out for’ah crack rock… i hear yer crackin on tha new blood now ! (ain’t no joy like tha butt of’ah little boy, eh?) and OH ! ya luv ta watch’em strut…. so why ya tellin me bout yer lack’ah interest in wiggers… so it lost it’s pizazzzzzzzz…. shit happens, dude… but please … i’m not interested, tell it to tha cows yer milkin…yanno, the ones ya gulp dry with no hands? (yer so talented.) you must really like me ta share that kinda information ! yeowwwwwwww ! badddddd memories…..

Response:

No I’ll pass, WIGGER’s aren’t my type. dead-on description

oh, ANY description’s dead on when yer hidin’ like a little bitch boy… show yerself, gimme yer phone # and street address… let’s see what yer made of when yer standin toe ta toe with the object of yer affection. (and tha bullet hits tha bone.) or are ya scared? hehehe

Response:

PLEASE tell me you wrote this just for me, i never knew you found me so important, i’m about ta shed a tear… i’m so overwhelmed. (oh, sorry bout em sewin ya up)… just keep touchin’ them toes, i know you can do it ! you’ve had hours and hours on end of practice… and i’m with ya, DADDY ! ::there there now…. was that so bad???? next time give it time ta shrink up bafore yer next trick, dang ! ya make me worry so…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As I walked through that hospital door I was sewn up like a coat I got a smile from the bite of the wind Watched the fresh fall of snow I knew then that my life took a turn I felt strong and secure And with adhesive tape over my nose I felt almost demure Goodbye Sister Disco With your flashing trash lamps Goodbye Sister Disco And to your clubs and your tramps Goodbye Sister Disco My dancing’s left you behind Goodbye, now you’re solo Black plastic; deaf, dumb and blind Bye, goodbye Sister Disco, Now I go I go where the music where the music fits my soul And I, I will never let go, I’ll never let go ‘Til the echo of the street fight has dissolved I will choose nightmares and cold stormy seas I will take over your grief and disease I’ll stay beside you and comfort your soul When you are lonely and broken and old Now I walk with a man in my face Ooh, a woman in my hair I’ve got you all lookin’ out though my eyes My feet are a prayer Goodbye Sister Disco With your flashing trash lamps Goodbye Sister Disco And to your clubs and your tramps Goodbye Sister Disco My dancing’s left you behind Goodbye, now you’re solo Black plastic; deaf, dumb and blind

Response:

It took you three hours to pull out the race card. LOOK be black, white, brown or green for all I care just be yourself and do alone for all I care. omgggggggg, i’m impressed … you’re keeping up with my response time ! i didn’t see a race card, but if you did, Daddy, i humbly submit to your visions… and yeah… 3 hours ain’t long when i have about 20 more hours of desktop publishing to put together with the web-o-miester i’m collaboratin’ with for my monthly magazine. wanna HEP? i could sure use it, i been up all night doin a website for my tat business AND my non-profit org. yer welcome ta work fer food… if there’s any left after MY fat ass get’s done with it ! I LOVE YOU, DADDY ! ~tanya (and my flight ta OKC was postponed taday and i’m bummed, i GOTTA get these businesses conjoined or i’m gonna lose my status as tha"ADHD/OCD/MPD/PD/LMNOP and bipolar" queen !)

Response:

No I’ll pass, WIGGER’s aren’t my type. As you insult me so

and an angry one at that

Response:

LOL! it’s lyrics to a fucking song bitch!

shhhhhhh, let me believe YOU wrote it JUST FOR ME !…. (and i love it when ya call me "bitch", Daddy… ::gettin’ moist:: ) ~tanya (yer squishy gurl) now kiss me ! (ya can’t help but ta love me, so stop fightin’ it!)

Response:

You’re so cool, can I hang around with you?

only if you’ll be muh jitterbug boy. So you’ll ask me what I’m doing here, holding up a lamp-post Flipping this quarter, trying to make up my mind And if it’s heads I’ll go to Tennessee, and tails I’ll buy a drink If it lands on the edge I’ll keep talking to you **^** tearsssssssss from heaven. **^**

Response:

No I’ll pass, WIGGER’s aren’t my type. As you insult me so

and an angry one at that

Response:

and an angry one at that

again, yer projection holds no water. FIRST, yer 21 years late… and now THIS ! hmmph !

Response:

Oh Christ!

WHAT’D HE DO NOW??????? do ya ever wonder why christians wear crosses? i mean…. ain’t that like tha LAST thing jezus is gunna wanna see if he comes back? What have I got that makes you want to love me is it my body or someone I might be or somethin’ inside me You better tell me tell me it’s really up to you

I hate you some I I love you when I forget about me I want to be strong I want to have you got the time to find out who I really am oh oh ah What does it take to get inside of your mind give me a break and take a chance for the very first time

i wanna to get up and jive I wanna wreck my stockings in some juke box dive You better tell me tell me it’s really up to you have you got the time to find out who I really am What have I got that makes you want to love me now is it my body or someone I might be or somethin’ inside me You better tell me tell me it’s really up to you have you got the time to find out who I really am

Do you want to take a chance On maybe finding some sweet romance with me baby Well, come on ah ah ooh

dah dah doo, all li want to say to you.. is…. I wanna bring out the best in me and in you I want to talk to you, I want to shampoo you I want to renew you again and again I am on a lonely road and I am traveling Looking for the key to set me free Oh the jealousy, the greed is the unraveling It’s the unraveling And it undoes all the joy that could be I want to have fun, I want to shine like the sun I want to be the one that you want to see I want to knit you a sweater Want to write you a love letter I want to make you feel better I want to make you feel free ::trippin tha light, fandango:: ~t

Response:

That’s more like it. God Damn birds! Fucking bird flu or what??

one of em flu over tha kewkew’s nest…. (mock) MOCK (ing) ING (bird) BIRD (yeah) YEAH…. MOCKIN’ BIRD NOW EVERYBUDDY HAVE YA HEARD….. OH, for tha good ole days when the lyrics actually MEANT sumthin. now it’s just words…. tha lyrics? they’s passe. Oh Fuck this!!!!!

whoooooooOOOOAH.. DUDE ! i mean.. like i respect everyone’s kink… so g’on witcha bad seff ! (and stop sayin dirty words, yer goin’ ta hell.) HEY ! (good god).. JUMP BACK… kiss muhself….. diddy doo doo ti doo di do dooooo yeowWWWWWWWWWW !

Response:

are ya scared?

terrified o wiggy one

Response:

T.V. SUCKSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!

admin — Thu, 20 Oct 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

"whacko" wrote in message

news:0hf6f.420$Yn4.79@trnddc03… > Do you want a scarecrow, I could draw one for yah. > I like that halloween stuff.

damn I really am scared of that stuff yeah whacko, that would be great — kez – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "kez" wrote in message > news:3rt597FlfigiU1@individual.net… >> "whacko" wrote in message >> news:sYc6f.199$hP6.66@trnddc05… >>> She’s a clown woman. >> i guess I don’t like clowns >> hmmm scarecrows….? >> — kez >>> "kez" wrote in message >>> news:3rshmcFl7713U1@individual.net… >>>> it is me or is that lady in the picture a bit scary? >>>> — kez >>>> "whacko" wrote in message >>>> news:d8_5f.10948$oy3.2901@trnddc04… >>>>> At least porn gives me ideas for art work. >>>>> Look at this link, and tell me what you think. >>>>> http://freakinout3.tripod.com/page7.htm >>>>> "Buther Boy" wrote in message >>>>> news:9cggl1hnst4rjaa85fu1qqfhbvpa13nakl@4ax.com… >>>>>> On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 01:00:30 GMT, "whacko" >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>T.V. ROTS YOUR BRAIN!!!!!!!!!!! >>>>>> so does porn!!! >>>>>> — >>>>>> Remove the word Spam from my e-mail to contact me… >>>>>> http://www.PrivacySig.com/SIGbutherboySpam-gmail-black.png >>>>>> ~

Response:

Do you want a scarecrow, I could draw one for yah. I like that halloween stuff. "kez" wrote in message

news:3rt597FlfigiU1@individual.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "whacko" wrote in message > news:sYc6f.199$hP6.66@trnddc05… >> She’s a clown woman. > i guess I don’t like clowns > hmmm scarecrows….? > — kez >> "kez" wrote in message >> news:3rshmcFl7713U1@individual.net… >>> it is me or is that lady in the picture a bit scary? >>> — kez >>> "whacko" wrote in message >>> news:d8_5f.10948$oy3.2901@trnddc04… >>>> At least porn gives me ideas for art work. >>>> Look at this link, and tell me what you think. >>>> http://freakinout3.tripod.com/page7.htm >>>> "Buther Boy" wrote in message >>>> news:9cggl1hnst4rjaa85fu1qqfhbvpa13nakl@4ax.com… >>>>> On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 01:00:30 GMT, "whacko" >>>>> wrote: >>>>>>T.V. ROTS YOUR BRAIN!!!!!!!!!!! >>>>> so does porn!!! >>>>> — >>>>> Remove the word Spam from my e-mail to contact me… >>>>> http://www.PrivacySig.com/SIGbutherboySpam-gmail-black.png >>>>> ~

Response:

"whacko" wrote in message

news:sYc6f.199$hP6.66@trnddc05… > She’s a clown woman.

i guess I don’t like clowns hmmm scarecrows….? — kez – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "kez" wrote in message > news:3rshmcFl7713U1@individual.net… >> it is me or is that lady in the picture a bit scary? >> — kez >> "whacko" wrote in message >> news:d8_5f.10948$oy3.2901@trnddc04… >>> At least porn gives me ideas for art work. >>> Look at this link, and tell me what you think. >>> http://freakinout3.tripod.com/page7.htm >>> "Buther Boy" wrote in message >>> news:9cggl1hnst4rjaa85fu1qqfhbvpa13nakl@4ax.com… >>>> On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 01:00:30 GMT, "whacko" >>>> wrote: >>>>>T.V. ROTS YOUR BRAIN!!!!!!!!!!! >>>> so does porn!!! >>>> — >>>> Remove the word Spam from my e-mail to contact me… >>>> http://www.PrivacySig.com/SIGbutherboySpam-gmail-black.png >>>> ~

Response:

She’s a clown woman. "kez" wrote in message

news:3rshmcFl7713U1@individual.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> it is me or is that lady in the picture a bit scary? > — kez > "whacko" wrote in message > news:d8_5f.10948$oy3.2901@trnddc04… >> At least porn gives me ideas for art work. >> Look at this link, and tell me what you think. >> http://freakinout3.tripod.com/page7.htm >> "Buther Boy" wrote in message >> news:9cggl1hnst4rjaa85fu1qqfhbvpa13nakl@4ax.com… >>> On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 01:00:30 GMT, "whacko" >>> wrote: >>>>T.V. ROTS YOUR BRAIN!!!!!!!!!!! >>> so does porn!!! >>> — >>> Remove the word Spam from my e-mail to contact me… >>> http://www.PrivacySig.com/SIGbutherboySpam-gmail-black.png >>> ~

Response:

"whacko" wrote in message

news:O4X5f.9460$Yk6.3086@trnddc01… > T.V. ROTS YOUR BRAIN!!!!!!!!!!!

On no account should you ever behave like someone on a TV soap or sitcom because, it’s made up by a bunch of LAME ASS scriptwriters with SHIT FOR BRAINS no real person is ever so foul as a tv soap character! — kez

Response:

"whacko" wrote in message

news:O4X5f.9460$Yk6.3086@trnddc01… > T.V. ROTS YOUR BRAIN!!!!!!!!!!!

TV people are so lame that’s why tv rots your brain those sucky suck-ups lick up snot tho’s at least some of them are hot — kez

Response:

it is me or is that lady in the picture a bit scary? — kez "whacko" wrote in message

news:d8_5f.10948$oy3.2901@trnddc04… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> At least porn gives me ideas for art work. > Look at this link, and tell me what you think. > http://freakinout3.tripod.com/page7.htm > "Buther Boy" wrote in message > news:9cggl1hnst4rjaa85fu1qqfhbvpa13nakl@4ax.com… >> On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 01:00:30 GMT, "whacko" >> wrote: >>>T.V. ROTS YOUR BRAIN!!!!!!!!!!! >> so does porn!!! >> — >> Remove the word Spam from my e-mail to contact me… >> http://www.PrivacySig.com/SIGbutherboySpam-gmail-black.png >> ~

Response:

could be……………. On Thu, 20 Oct 2005 21:41:46 -0500, "The Professor" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text - wrote: >Keb Mo’ >God Trying To Get Your Attention >Well you might be saved >You might be reborn >You might own a car >With a big loud horn >Maybe it’s just news >On your television >Or it might be God trying to get your attention >Are you an engineer >Working on a farm >Or a Casanova >With a whole lotta charm >It might be a mouse >Living in your kitchen >Or it might be God trying to get your attention >Well it might sound bad >Or it might sound good >Might be made of steel >Or it might be made of wood >Maybe it’s just news >On your television >Or it might be God trying to get your attention >Well it might be in the church house >Or it might be on the street >Somehow or another >Every soul has got to meet >Well it might be in the city >Or it might be in town >One way or another >You’re gonna find a higher ground >Well you might be deaf >Or you might be blind >She’ll put the message >Right in your mind >Might look like a plan >Or a coalition >Or it might be God trying to get your attention >Well you might be deaf >Or you might be dumb >You’ll get the answer >When the answer comes >Maybe it’s just news on your television >Or it might be God trying to get your attention >It might be God trying to get your attention

– Remove the word Spam from my e-mail to contact me… http://www.PrivacySig.com/SIGbutherboySpam-gmail-black.png ~

Response:

very nice, wacko………………….:-) On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 04:28:57 GMT, "whacko" wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->At least porn gives me ideas for art work. >Look at this link, and tell me what you think. >http://freakinout3.tripod.com/page7.htm >"Buther Boy" wrote in message >news:9cggl1hnst4rjaa85fu1qqfhbvpa13nakl@4ax.com… >> On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 01:00:30 GMT, "whacko" >> wrote: >>>T.V. ROTS YOUR BRAIN!!!!!!!!!!! >> so does porn!!! >> — >> Remove the word Spam from my e-mail to contact me… >> http://www.PrivacySig.com/SIGbutherboySpam-gmail-black.png >> ~

– Remove the word Spam from my e-mail to contact me… http://www.PrivacySig.com/SIGbutherboySpam-gmail-black.png ~

Response:

At least porn gives me ideas for art work. Look at this link, and tell me what you think. http://freakinout3.tripod.com/page7.htm "Buther Boy" wrote in message

news:9cggl1hnst4rjaa85fu1qqfhbvpa13nakl@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 01:00:30 GMT, "whacko" > wrote: >>T.V. ROTS YOUR BRAIN!!!!!!!!!!! > so does porn!!! > — > Remove the word Spam from my e-mail to contact me… > http://www.PrivacySig.com/SIGbutherboySpam-gmail-black.png > ~

Response:

T.V. ROTS YOUR BRAIN!!!!!!!!!!!

Response:

On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 01:00:30 GMT, "whacko" wrote: >T.V. ROTS YOUR BRAIN!!!!!!!!!!!

so does porn!!! — Remove the word Spam from my e-mail to contact me… http://www.PrivacySig.com/SIGbutherboySpam-gmail-black.png ~

Response:

Keb Mo’ God Trying To Get Your Attention Well you might be saved You might be reborn You might own a car With a big loud horn Maybe it’s just news On your television Or it might be God trying to get your attention Are you an engineer Working on a farm Or a Casanova With a whole lotta charm It might be a mouse Living in your kitchen Or it might be God trying to get your attention Well it might sound bad Or it might sound good Might be made of steel Or it might be made of wood Maybe it’s just news On your television Or it might be God trying to get your attention Well it might be in the church house Or it might be on the street Somehow or another Every soul has got to meet Well it might be in the city Or it might be in town One way or another You’re gonna find a higher ground Well you might be deaf Or you might be blind She’ll put the message Right in your mind Might look like a plan Or a coalition Or it might be God trying to get your attention Well you might be deaf Or you might be dumb You’ll get the answer When the answer comes Maybe it’s just news on your television Or it might be God trying to get your attention It might be God trying to get your attention

Losing Hearing

OT:*Bonus* Question of the day…. 08/21/07

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Urgent Education Advocacy Alert for Parents in New York State

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Extra Bonus Question: Are you disabled?

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well

OT:Bonus Question of the day…. 08/21/07