Shelter Dogs
Question:
"I Dropped The Leash, Threw My Right Arm Over The Lab’s Shoulder, Grabbed Her Opposite Foot With My Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side, Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into Her Throat And Said "GRRRR!" And Neatly Nipped Her Ear," sionnach.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yeah, I know. There is a big internet presence of hatred, but no-one if willing to step forward and take the dogs home that bite. What "dogs that bite"? She identifies dogs as "biters" by tormenting them until they’re pushed into snapping at an inanimate object. None of my dogs will harm a human being, but if you tormented them by repeatedly poking them with a plastic hand on a stick while they’re trying to eat, they might very well eventually snap at it. Plastic surgery or stitches is good enough for JQP, but not for me. What are ya gonna do? Not use cruel and ridiculous methods to force dogs into trying to defend themselves, then kill them. Not identify any dog that isn’t a total submissive pushover milksop as "dangerous" because you’ve abused and tormented the dog into what under law would be considered a justified bite. As I said- Sternberg would most likely have KILLED at least two of my three dogs- all of whom are wonderful dogs who have never done harm, and none of whom is the slightest danger to any human being. Feh.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : Your two dogs may have been killed, Sarah, but maybe two other dogs : out there somewhere would have gotten to live in their place? There are NOT ENOUGH ROOMS AT THE INN, for crissakes, for all the dogs who need one. Got it yet? But until you’re working in rescue yourself, and are actually faced with making decisions like this, you couldn’t possibly get it. Handsome "Jack" Morrison
Here’s lyingdogDUMMY BEATIN a dog to HOWEsbreak IT: "Handsome Jack Morrison"
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Never mind dogman 
You too? Some folks just never learn. Uh huh One of the signs of mental illness is to say "Uh huh" a lot. PS: If the "trainer" you were talking about isn’t on this list, he (or she) is NOT an approved Koehler trainer, no matter how loud you scream otherwise. May I laugh again? LOL! One doesn’t need to be on a list to use Koehlers methods or teach his methods. Let me be among the first (apparently) to tell you that not every trainer who uses a leash is a *Koehler* trainer. Sheesh. This person may call herself a Koehler trainer, but if she’s hanging 12 week old puppies, she’s about as far from a Koehler trainer as a dog trainer can possibly be. Again, this is just your IGNORANCE showing. I can call myself a devout Christian, but if I’m not adhering to the doctrine, I’m something else. http://www.koehlerdogtraining.com/patoflearn.html Sorry, the very first sentences make me aware that whoever wrote it knows nothing about PR based training: "Amidst the current (and politically correct) trend in Positive Reinforcement Only training systems" You cannot use PR only. Au contraire. Many, many posters to r.p.d.b. (and many other places as well) *claim* that they use nothing but R. You know, the PPers. And they do it quite loudly, too. Surely you aren’t blind (and deaf), as well as ignorant? Those are hard handicaps to overcome, Dogstar. And if you knew anything about PR BASED training, you would realize that. It’s not all cookies and babytalk. There is no stronger supporter of R than Handsome Jack Morrison, but I also use every behavioral tool in my bag, including R-, P, and P-, because I know that even R has its limits. You’d know that too, if you didn’t have your head in the sand. But that seems to be the battle cry of the Koehler-ites. The Koehlerites have no battle cry. They have behaviorism on their side, and that’s more than enough. I don’t need instruction on how to give my dogs a proper leash correction as I do not rely on a leash to control or teach my dog. That may or may not be suitable for your needs, but it’s not suitable for the majority of dog owners, especially since the advent of leash laws. Besides, after just a few weeks of proper Koehler training, Koehler dogs likewise are no longer in need of a leash. That you apparently don’t know that, once again shows me just how ignorant of anything to do with Koehler you are. My last two dogs have been trained offleash right from the start, using rewards for what I like, and nothing for what I don’t like. Good for you, and if that level of training is good enough for you, fine. But it’s not good enough for many of the rest of us. Again, I’m not saying Koehler doesn’t work. I really have no idea what you’re saying anymore, because you apparently know so damn little about Koehler and behavioral principles in general that it’s hard to have an informed discussion with you. PS: It boggles my mind at how stupid you must be to keep denying that those certain harsh methods are only for LAST RESORT situations, intended only to SAVE A DOG’S LIFE, even after I’ve repeatedly given you direct *quotes* from Koehler’s book saying just that. It’s like you don’t even care how stupid people think you are, or how devious you are, etc. That can’t help your cause any. You’d think that you’d at least want to *appear* to be honest, even if you’re not. — Handsome Jack Morrison *gently remove the detonator to reply via e-mail
"Handsome Jack Morrison"
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Good books huh? Absolutely. Some are, in fact, classics. Which idea was your favorite, the one where they tell you to alpha roll a "dominant" dog, There’s nothing inherently wrong with rolling a dog (i.e., it *can* and *does* work in *some* situations). Unfortunately, most people either do it incorrectly, do it at the wrong time, etc. or where they tell you that you didn’t hit him hard enough if he doesn’t yelp or approaches you within 5 minutes of his punishment? If physical discipline is deemed necessary (after careful evaluation), it’s much more cruel not to get it over with quickly than it is to do it incrementally and half-heartedly, which usually only invites the need for even more discipline. Maybe you liked when they recommend these beatings for housebreaking accidents, chewing/destructive behavior, stealing, trying to get on your bed at night and dog on dog aggression. At no time do the Monks *ever* advocate beating a dog. A swat on the rump or a check to the chin does *not* constitute a "beating." I’m sorry if you don’t agree. And each of those behavior "problems" needs to be looked at in its proper context. A quote from the Monks: "We repeat, these situations may merit physical discipline. Since no book can pretend to analyze every individual dog and situation, we feel obligated to emphasize from the outset that discipline is never an arbitrary training technique to be applied to each and every dog for all offenses. We do, however, believe that physical and verbal discipline can be an effective technique. The best policy if you experience any of the above problems is to consult a qualified trainer or veterinarian for evaluation of your individual situation…. "If discipline is decided upon as a training technique, it should be the proper technique. We feel we have developed several methods that depend less on violent physical force than timing, a flair for drama, and the element of surprise. We feel an obligation, as responsible trainers, to map out these methods, rather than simply skip the topic because it is unpleasant. Dog owners want to know what to do." In other words, physical discipline is reserved for those serious, special occasions when other methods have failed. For example, they do not recommend using physical discipline for *routine* housebreaking chores — only on those rare occasions when an already reliably housebroken dog is (after careful evaluation) deemed to be soiling the house on purpose, backsliding, etc. I’ll give you an actual example. Years ago, an adult dog was brought to me as an *incurable* house-soiler. It was either get the dog reliably housetrained or the dog was going on a one way trip to the pound. Being the kind, compassionate trainer that I am, I was prepared to do whatever it took to get this dog house-trained and save his life. After several weeks of more or less traditional training, and to poor result, I brought out the big guns — physical and verbal discipline. Whenever the dog soiled the house (no, you don’t even have to catch him in the act), I immediately (but very calmly) tossed a leash on his collar, dragged him to the scene of the crime, and (using a large chair as a prop) tethered him to the leg of the chair, with his nose about two inches away from the poop. After a couple of swats on the rump, some loud vocalizing, and a wait of about 20 minutes, I’d release the dog and then ignore him for a while. I had to repeat this process *three* times, I think — and the house-soiling miraculously stopped. The dog went home to enjoy a long and contented life with his original owners, and I got to feel good about myself. So, yes, the Monk’s books are good ones. Even for novices. Yup, that’s my opinion, and I’m sticking to it. — Handsome Jack Morrison *gently remove the detonator to reply via e-mail Handsome "Jack" Morrison Q: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. A: Why is top posting frowned upon?
